Commuting on bike Versus Commuting by car

rhext

ChrisInBicester wrote:

There’s no pointing adding it up. For an enormous outlay on top of the necessary car, and a few additional and incremental costs, I can save maybe £110 over the summer by not driving to work. Let’s not hide the facts. Cycling is an expensive hobby. It’s not cost effective in the slightest. The reasons for doing it are manifold, but saving money isn’t one of them.

Yes, but look at it another way. It sounds to me very much as if you've bought the bike for recreational purposes, and you do most of your mileage that way. So you'd have it anyway - in which case you're £110 better off than you would otherwise be had you not decided to ride it into work a few times.

It's perfectly possible to make cycle commuting pay off even if you don't manage to ditch a car, but the key is to do it lots as otherwise (as you point out) it's very difficult to recover the capital cost of the equipment. This isn't creative accounting, it's just a reflection of the fact that some people have very expensive journeys and commute a lot more frequently.

sportbilly1976

ok......will have a go at this one as just ordered new bike on the bike to work scheme.

Live & work in south manchester & currently do not own car - bus everywhere.

Bus - £10 per week ticket. Commute - 45mins each way door to door (although sometimes get lift from g/f when its 20 in her car). Commute is approx 4 miles each way.

So - £500pa......

Bike - £500 over 12 months with savings is £33pcm nett cost.
Equipment - not purchased yet (seeing what Santa brings ) but allowing £100-200 in the new year for clothes, helmet, shoes, lights etc

Advantages for me - fitness / feel awake
Disadvs - Weather...on a budget for wetproof clothes but do not want to be drying out at work till 11am....also work currently do not have showers!

benpinnick

I think I can see some sense on noth sides of the arguement here, but I can say that as someone who's gone from 2 cars to one (and a bike of course) I really have felt the net benefits in my pocket. Only once you're rid of your car do you realise how much money you poured into it! I think its the big annual bills you forget about too easily.

What with petrol, insurance, servicing and everything else, the bike is a bargain. On the other hand, if you work out the cost per ride of your £2000 XC bike you might think that almost any hobby is cheaper :shock:

CiB

rhext wrote:

Yes, but look at it another way. It sounds to me very much as if you've bought the bike for recreational purposes, and you do most of your mileage that way. So you'd have it anyway - in which case you're £110 better off than you would otherwise be had you not decided to ride it into work a few times.

It's perfectly possible to make cycle commuting pay off even if you don't manage to ditch a car, but the key is to do it lots as otherwise (as you point out) it's very difficult to recover the capital cost of the equipment. This isn't creative accounting, it's just a reflection of the fact that some people have very expensive journeys and commute a lot more frequently.

The bike was specifically for riding to work, and was worth every penny - I've never regretted spending the money, and won't mind next time if the replacement is as much fun as the current one. In my situation the savings are minimal - the cost of the gallon of diesel that isn't used is replaced with the cost of food in my case. But I take the point about commutes that cost a lot anyway, whether by public transport or anything else. It still holds true though that biking to work won't generate the same cost savings that OP is claiming; the figures just don't stack up to any scrutiny.

Let's not forget, the core reasons for doing the commute by bike are that it's fun, and as a consequence we all feel better for doing it. That's worth it alone in my book. The cost is what I work for, to afford to do things like this. If some people save money doing it, all the better.

Spitchips - BANNED

jashburnham wrote:

Yeah, probably true, but then £4K will buy a stonking bike or a rubbish car and I know what I'd prefer.

Too true, mister, too true - you hit the nail right on the head there - wow. This well and truely another point for the bike VS car battle and I must say that by a rough guess the better mode of transport for costs, fitness, time saved and less hassle has to be bikes!

Oh, yeah, I love to ride my bicycle, ding, a ling, ling.

alfablue

As I have a silly car that does 17mpg and chews through £300 worth of tyres per year I would save money every time I commute by bike. Add to that the fact that I do all my own bike maintenance (as would a lot of people here) and have already got just about every conceivable accessory and clothing item I could want, the actual costs of cycling are pretty low. I have 3 bikes for different uses, but my current commuter (a converted Ti mtb) has been going strong for 8 years now, so the capital costs are small. Work also charges £1200 pa parking (which I don't use). I think it is too simplistic to say cycle commuting will or will not save money, every situation will differ.

Spitchips - BANNED

One of the best things I like about commuting by bike is the rush hour traffic and I can really safely overtake 25 cars all stuck at the traffic lights; I just overtake on the opposit lane where there is no cars coming (everyone is leaving town centre to go home) and then quickly nip in bewteen the statioanry cars at pole position at the red lights - what a buzz.

For tha stretch of road they could be stuck there for 10 mins - if they are car number 25 in the queue; I can quickly whizz past all the cars and do the same stretch in about 2mins!!! Wicked 8)

The Chingford Skinhead

ChrisInBicester wrote:

Creative accounting is back I see.

Basing savings on the idea that the option is either to run a car or have a bike is not consistent with the real world. All this is my own experience based on commuting 20.7 miles each way on a carbon road bike, so here goes.

I do the school run 3 days per week, which limits the times I can ride in to 2 days per week. Not having a car isn’t an option. It’s also true to state that in reality, the bike isn’t much use for going anywhere specific on, apart from to the office & back. Shopping is out as it can’t carry a weekly shop. The theatre? No thanks – there’s nowhere to leave it, and turning up for the evening show in lycra, sweating and looking for somewhere to change, is undignified. Popping to the shopping centre is out – bikes aren’t allowed in, and even with a dozen locks on it I very much doubt that it would be rideable after each time it’s left locked up for an hour or so whilst I’m away from it. To the football? Not really. Parents evenings are a possibility though. In short, the bike is good for commuting, and fun to be out on. But for going anywhere specific it’s of restricted benefit; a car is a necessity.

Commuting then. I’ve just gone through this year’s rides. Cut out the 3 days per week school run, those days out of the office, days when I have to be back by a sensible time after work anyway, holidays, days that fall within the October – April period when I really don’t fancy 20 miles on what seem to be busier unlit A roads or pitch dark country lanes, and unbelievably but true, I’ve commuted on just 24 days this summer.

The math, as some people say.

24 days x 2 journeys per day x 20.7 miles / 52mpg x £5.75 per gallon = £110, as near as doesn’t matter. So biking to work when I can through the summer has returned a cost benefit to me of £110.

Additional costs:
1 x saddle [snapped old one in August], cost £49. Didn’t like it, so had to buy a new one = £42 in sale. Nice.
My glasses – fell out of pocket on two occasions, run over by following traffic. Total replacement cost around £400. (Insurance excess prevents worthwhile claim)
Tubes & tyres – non, so far.
Handlebar tape - £6 I reckon.
Alloy aerobars - £36 but not v good. Sold to the gent in the other office for a tenner.
Carbon aerobars - £99. God’s own contribution to cycling, worth every penny.
Lights & batteries. Not much, already had a load. £20 tops.
New Walkman - £60. Only used on the bike across country, so a cycling cost.
Cycling gear – Aldi gloves, bright togs to be seen by, socks etc. - £100? I dunno.
Food. If I drive in I have a packed lunch. On the bike I don’t carry anything so have to buy food to survive, and to provide the energy for the return journey. Roughly £3-4 per day. Knock it off the gallon of diesel saved by not using the car.
The bike itself. I’m not ashamed of it. £1200 worth of bike, lovely, the best I’ve ever had. It’s pretty much worthless now as a recoverable cost – 3 years old, a few thousand miles of wear & tear on it and likely to be replaced in the next year by something a bit more carbonny and lighter. So let’s factor in another £2000 for that, but hope it comes in under eh?

There’s no pointing adding it up. For an enormous outlay on top of the necessary car, and a few additional and incremental costs, I can save maybe £110 over the summer by not driving to work. Let’s not hide the facts. Cycling is an expensive hobby. It’s not cost effective in the slightest. The reasons for doing it are manifold, but saving money isn’t one of them.

Creative accounting certainly is back Chris, looking at your post. I don't disagree with the premise that cycling isn't the cheap hobby everynoe says it is but I struggled with your calcs (to be fair - I could have done the same with the original post). But first I need to challenge your "Car is a necessity" quote. Quite a few of us on here don't have cars so clearly they can't be :P despite the efforts of town planners to make it seem that way.

A lot of the reasons you give for the car being necessary are down to personal choice. Nobody has to do a week / month's shop in one go. I can load the panniers twice a week if I need to. If not, I can always get a cab. As for going out to the shops, theatre etc the bike is very practical and cheap - no parking. If you don't race you don't need to wear special gear

Now for the math. You've assumed your car does its top performance 52mpg on your commute - unlikely for most people. Your calculations also assume the same basis of newspaper calculations between public transport and cars. That is, the only cost of the car is fuel - ignoring depreciation, insurance, servicing etc - all of which have a variable element depending upon the amount of milage done, That's why most travel and subsistence claims allow motorists 40p per mile tax free as it is assumed as the true cost. So 40p x (24 days x 2 journeys x 20.7 miles) is a lot more than the figure you gave. Then if you had to pay for parking...

On your bike costs:
Glasses - these are a cost of not packing them away properly - not a cost of the bike. Just as you wouldn't add them to the cost of the car if you dropped them on the drive and ran over them. Of course if you were driving the car rather than cycling you'd double your risk of a prang and the insurance excess
Packed lunch - your choice not to carry one on the bike, thus not a cost of cycling but a cost of your choice not to carry it.
Changing your mind on the saddle and the aero bars and then charging the whole lot to the bike seems a tad naughty - but are you telling us you haven't bought anything for the car this year - new mats, air freshners, jet / supermarket hand washes etc

Having said all that - my cycling habit is a lot more expensive than my old commute - as I had free travel :shock: :roll: :twisted: so I save nothing except my physical and mental health (although some drivers seem determined to reduce that saving as well)

Urakhunt

whats wrong with Spitchips calcualtions?

The_Darkness

whats wrong with Spitchips calcualtions?

They are completely rose tinted and not accurate for some folks reading this thread?

Urakhunt

The_Darkness wrote:

whats wrong with Spitchips calcualtions?

They are completely rose tinted and not accurate for some folks reading this thread?

so what do you think would be a more accurate calculation of a running cost of a car and bike over ten years - they seemed reasonable to me.

greg66_tri_v2.0

Urakhunt wrote:

The_Darkness wrote:

whats wrong with Spitchips calcualtions?

They are completely rose tinted and not accurate for some folks reading this thread?

so what do you think would be a more accurate calculation of a running cost of a car and bike over ten years - they seemed reasonable to me.

Well, the bike costs don't take into account sensible estimated of maintenance and servicing costs, and consumables. Nor do they take into account costs of things like bike clothing, which you *need* if you're going to commute.

The car costs don't analyse separately fixed annual costs such as insurance and tax, vs variable costs which are based on mileage (eg fuel).

Then there's the cost of getting something to replace a car for non-commuting uses that a bike can't accommodate (basically taxi/hire car/public transport costs). There are probably other issues, but those are the most obvious apples/pears points.

Btw, urakhunt, don't you think some people might find your user name a bit offensive?

Urakhunt

I think spitchps calculations worked out at £1000 for a bike and £1000 for everything else over a ten year span. £1000 seems reasonable why what do you think would be? dont forget some things you may think off are optional and not essential items e.g you could commute in work clothes/

lost_in_thought

I think they're unrealistic - I'd spend way more than that in speeding tickets over 10 years.

And yes, technically I suppose you *could* commute by bike very cheaply, but that requires willpower that I just don't have.

AndyManc

Spitchips wrote:

. Even the buses charge £1.20 for a mile ride; .

I used the buses during the icy period before christmas, it's certainly NOT £1.20/mile.

I can get unlimited travel for £10/week or £33/month.

The bus got me to work (early shift) 5mins before I could do it cycling, but I did have a 10min walk to the bus stop.

I quite liked my 2 week enforced bus rides (following a dodgy start), then again I don't travel during rush hour, in which case I would hate it.


Don't forget the savings cyclists can make by NOT having a gym membership.

AndyManc

rhext wrote:

Like most people I guess, cycling does not allow me to ditch the car:!

Most COULD ditch their car (I've done it) , the fact is, they are too scared to take the plunge.

How did most people cope 30yrs ago , my parents never had a car, they had 5 kids, they worked 10 miles away, and they managed no problem.

Since I ditched my car I use the local shops, bought a cycle trailer, use on-line gorocery shopping, got to know people in my local community, use my bike a lot more, I'm a lot happier, richer , fitter and contented, have more friends .

More people should try it, you will be amazed.



.

bluecow

AndyManc wrote:

rhext wrote:

Like most people I guess, cycling does not allow me to ditch the car:!

Most COULD ditch their car (I've done it) , the fact is, they are too scared to take the plunge.

How did most people cope 30yrs ago , my parents never had a car, they had 5 kids, they worked 10 miles away, and they managed no problem.

Since I ditched my car I use the local shops, bought a cycle trailer, use on-line gorocery shopping, got to know people in my local community, use my bike a lot more, I'm a lot happier, richer , fitter and contented, have more friends .

More people should try it, you will be amazed.


Thats a very shallow way of analysing the problem that exists for the majority of people. Over 30 years ago we had less choice of what leisure/shopping activities we could partake in and therefore had less need to travel at weekends.
I didnt have a car for 6 months and much as i would love to ditch the expense it wasnt practical. I have a 6 year old son who is taken to skiing once a week (at 8am on a sunday morning on the outskirts of manchester- 15 miles away from our house, with all his gear), swimming lessons, shopping needs to be done (im not happy to deal with the russian roulette fruit/vegetable selection process that seems to go on at Tescos), i go away some weekends climbing, again carrying a shedload of gear.
30 years ago supermarkets/shops were unheard of to be open on a sunday. Likewise anywhere else. But public transport doesnt seem to have kept up with the extended openings of today.
Im all for people using their cars LESS. There are way too many unncessary journeys and ironically enough people AT THE GYM used to think i was barking for cycling the whole 2 miles there, instead of using my car. I would love to be able to ditch the car, but its just not feasible for me personally.
I write as someone who has cycled 10000 miles this year, and even i wouldnt get rid.







.

AndyManc

It's not a shallow interpretation at all.

Your own personal aspiration control your car use.

How many 6yr olds go skiing, teach him football instead.

The majority of people that live in an urban environment can live without a car, but choose not to for a number of reasons, the main one being they are lazy and have zero concern about the consequences of a car slave culture.

I don't think supermarkets should be open 7days/24 hours , they have destroyed local shopping, damaged the environment, further encouraged car slave culture and raised rampant consumerism.

The longer we promote car slave culture the more damage we do to self supporting local communities.

I think we should lower our personal self indulgent belief that we have the right to do what we want, when we want and instead take greater responsibilities for the consequences of our actions.

Spitchips - BANNED

[quote="AndyManc"I don't think supermarkets should be open 7days/24 hours , they have destroyed local shopping, damaged the environment, further encouraged car slave culture and raised rampant consumerism.
[/quote]

I think that supermarkets are great for openinmg late. Say for example, you have been working all day then go to the gym in the evening for a few hourss. Go back home and make something to eat, only to realise you have run out of food and no breakfast in the morning, your cats are miawiong for food and the box is empty. With late night supermarkets you can pop down and buy some groceries to tie you over until your next 'big/ weekly shop' I dont know were I would be if they closed at 6-7pm!!!!

Off licences and your local convience store opens late selling booze, fags, papers, sweets and sandwhiches and things so why cant supermarkets - I know its about 24hr supermarkets but not everyone does 9-5pm work - you get people doing night shiftts popping in, revellers, clubbers, people working long hours and long shifts, what are they suppsoed to do? And all sorts of other people with erractic and hectic lifestyle.
:roll:

Spitchips - BANNED

My calculations are based on research on running a car buy newspapers and magazines, i think they got their figures from the RAC or something. But they did take into account all the running costs, petrol etc and more. They estimated it at being nearlly £15k per year.

My calcualtins are reasonable for a bike too - obvisouly everyones costs will be different depending on wether they buy a £10 lock or £50 lock etc. etc. But for me if Iwas to have a £1000 bike and spend about £1000 on it over ten years, altough I think I could quiete easily knock that down too £500 for the ten years which could bring it down too £1500.

Even if it did get bumped back up to £2000 it would still only revert back to my oriiginal calcualtions.

So my info' on running costs for car are from good sources and I think my calculations for my costs for owning a bike over ten years is a bout right for me. And I still think I could quiete easily keep it at no more than £1500.

I have the locks, lights clothes, spare parts and will carry out some basic care plan myself for bike.

bluecow

AndyManc wrote:

It's not a shallow interpretation at all.

Your own personal aspiration control your car use.

How many 6yr olds go skiing, teach him football instead.

The majority of people that live in an urban environment can live without a car, but choose not to for a number of reasons, the main one being they are lazy and have zero concern about the consequences of a car slave culture.

I don't think supermarkets should be open 7days/24 hours , they have destroyed local shopping, damaged the environment, further encouraged car slave culture and raised rampant consumerism.

The longer we promote car slave culture the more damage we do to self supporting local communities.

I think we should lower our personal self indulgent belief that we have the right to do what we want, when we want and instead take greater responsibilities for the consequences of our actions.

He does football too. He also goes swimming and climbing. Its all part of me not turning him into being LAZY. You know, that thing you were going on about just now?
How many times have you used a supermarket after 5pm or on a sunday? A few i would presume. So please dont be a hypocrit. Youre putting forward your own personal needs and assuming that everybody else can follow suit and those who dont are accused of being lazy. Its just not that simplistic. Remember that youre on a forum of keen cyclists and even we're not all convinced. Just count the number of posts from people who would find it very difficult to get rid of their cars. I tried it, for 6 months, during summer. It was damned hard.
You also missed out the bit where i said people should use their cars LESS. You know, there is a middle ground between being a lazy, conscienceless car slave and a non-car owning virtuous cyclist/walker/public transport user. Most things have a compromise if you look hard enough.

AndyManc

bluecow wrote:

Youre putting forward your own personal needs and assuming that everybody else can follow suit and those who dont are accused of being lazy. Its just not that simplistic. .

I'm doing the exact opposite, I'm not thinking about my needs at all, I'm thinking about the greater picture and the effect of the 'must have' society we live in .

We do not have a right to cheap air flight, cheap fuel, 24hr shopping, when it's detrimental to society and the environment as a whole.

People can't even be bothered to take their own shopping bag to supermarkets and they continue to use millions of plastic bags each week despite being warned of the dangers that the use and production causes, because they are too lazy and think only about themselves.

I'd force all supermarkets to charge 50p/bag , I'd also force all supermarkets to charge for car parking , the only way to make the public think about their behaviour is to hit them in their pocket, to directly affect them , otherwise they don't give a toss.

Giving up your car isn't easy, especially when we have a government that fails to promote public transport, but the majority don't do it because it means a bit of work and planning and unfortunately because the majority have nothing but self interest at heart ... they won't do it.

AndyManc

Spitchips wrote:

I think that supermarkets are great for openinmg late. Say for example, you have been working all day then go to the gym in the evening for a few hourss. Go back home and make something to eat, only to realise you have run out of food and no breakfast in the morning,

Off licences and your local convience store opens late selling booze, fags, papers, sweets and sandwhiches and things so why cant supermarkets - I know its about 24hr supermarkets but not everyone does 9-5pm work - you get people doing night shiftts popping in, revellers, clubbers, people working long hours and long shifts, what are they suppsoed to do?
:roll:

Ever heard of planning ?

I work shifts and I never run out of food.

Again you're putting your own 'must have now' mentality against the damage 24/7 opening causes to local shopping and the environment.

There are many 24/7's near me , they only ever have a couple of people during the night, yet the amount of power they consume is totally unrealistic and unnecessary.

It's only the past 20yrs that we've had 24/7's (not counting London) , what did people do before that ? , starve !!

Beeblebrox

Well I know I couldn't afford the running costs of a car, let alone a car, so the £350 I spent on a reasonable bike to get me to work every day was a sound investment. Zero running costs and any gear I buy is likely to last just as long as the bike itself.

lost_in_thought

I think you're being slightly idealistic Andy. If you want to live with the environment as your primary concern, then more power to you, but I doubt you'll have many followers for your cause.

I get most of my food delivered, so the supermarket isn't my concern, and from either my place in Ealing or my place in Essex I cycle most places within a reasonable distance, but getting between the 2 I don't fancy the 140-odd mile round trip on the bike most weekends.

Do I need to do it? Probably not. But I want to. So I drive.

If I commuted by car, however, it would take me twice as long because of the traffic in west London, and parking in Kensington is awful.

Rich158

Spitchips wrote:

[quote="AndyManc"I don't think supermarkets should be open 7days/24 hours , they have destroyed local shopping, damaged the environment, further encouraged car slave culture and raised rampant consumerism.

I think that supermarkets are great for openinmg late. Say for example, you have been working all day then go to the gym in the evening for a few hourss. Go back home and make something to eat, only to realise you have run out of food and no breakfast in the morning, your cats are miawiong for food and the box is empty. With late night supermarkets you can pop down and buy some groceries to tie you over until your next 'big/ weekly shop' I dont know were I would be if they closed at 6-7pm!!!!

Off licences and your local convience store opens late selling booze, fags, papers, sweets and sandwhiches and things so why cant supermarkets - I know its about 24hr supermarkets but not everyone does 9-5pm work - you get people doing night shiftts popping in, revellers, clubbers, people working long hours and long shifts, what are they suppsoed to do? And all sorts of other people with erractic and hectic lifestyle.
:roll:[/quote]

This sort of selfish attitude makes me sick.

Spare a thought for those who work in the supermarket. The majority of them don't choose to work there, it's the only job they can get, and the pay is only just above minimum wage. They usually have young kids and are just trying to make ends meet, and yet the stores are kept open 24/7 to meet the needs of selfish idiots who can't organise their own lives.

And yes I do have experience of this, my other half worked for our local supermarket having gone back to work whilst i went back to university, and still works for them, it was the only job a young women with a familly and no qualificatons could get. The amount of crap she puts up with because people have a basic inability to organise their lives and expect her to do something about it is unbelievable. And as for night clubbers etc using a supermarket, spare a thought for the poor checkout girl who has some pissed arsehole throw up all over her, or some idiot threatening to kick the shit out of her because she won't sell him alcohol. Would you put up with that for minimum wage?

Don't get me started on the damage supermarkets do to the environment, the local economy, farming etc

bluecow

AndyManc wrote:

bluecow wrote:

Youre putting forward your own personal needs and assuming that everybody else can follow suit and those who dont are accused of being lazy. Its just not that simplistic. .

I'm doing the exact opposite, I'm not thinking about my needs at all, I'm thinking about the greater picture and the effect of the 'must have' society we live in .

We do not have a right to cheap air flight, cheap fuel, 24hr shopping, when it's detrimental to society and the environment as a whole.

People can't even be bothered to take their own shopping bag to supermarkets and they continue to use millions of plastic bags each week despite being warned of the dangers that the use and production causes, because they are too lazy and think only about themselves.

I'd force all supermarkets to charge 50p/bag , I'd also force all supermarkets to charge for car parking , the only way to make the public think about their behaviour is to hit them in their pocket, to directly affect them , otherwise they don't give a toss.

Giving up your car isn't easy, especially when we have a government that fails to promote public transport, but the majority don't do it because it means a bit of work and planning and unfortunately because the majority have nothing but self interest at heart ... they won't do it.

The shopping bags thing is something we appear to agree on
I use those large blue tescos ones, theyre brilliant, and actually easier than using the "disposable" ones cause they carry more (less trips from car to house for lazy little me).
Let all supermarkets charge for bags. Why the hell not?!
[slightly off topic here but hey ho]

bluecow

Rich158 wrote:

Spitchips wrote:

[quote="AndyManc"I don't think supermarkets should be open 7days/24 hours , they have destroyed local shopping, damaged the environment, further encouraged car slave culture and raised rampant consumerism.

I think that supermarkets are great for openinmg late. Say for example, you have been working all day then go to the gym in the evening for a few hourss. Go back home and make something to eat, only to realise you have run out of food and no breakfast in the morning, your cats are miawiong for food and the box is empty. With late night supermarkets you can pop down and buy some groceries to tie you over until your next 'big/ weekly shop' I dont know were I would be if they closed at 6-7pm!!!!

Off licences and your local convience store opens late selling booze, fags, papers, sweets and sandwhiches and things so why cant supermarkets - I know its about 24hr supermarkets but not everyone does 9-5pm work - you get people doing night shiftts popping in, revellers, clubbers, people working long hours and long shifts, what are they suppsoed to do? And all sorts of other people with erractic and hectic lifestyle.
:roll:

This sort of selfish attitude makes me sick.

Spare a thought for those who work in the supermarket. The majority of them don't choose to work there, it's the only job they can get, and the pay is only just above minimum wage. They usually have young kids and are just trying to make ends meet, and yet the stores are kept open 24/7 to meet the needs of selfish idiots who can't organise their own lives.

And yes I do have experience of this, my other half worked for our local supermarket having gone back to work whilst i went back to university, and still works for them, it was the only job a young women with a familly and no qualifications could get. The amount of crap she puts up with because people have a basic inability to organise their lives and expect her to do something about it is unbelievable. And as for night clubbers etc using a supermarket, spare a thought for the poor checkout girl who has some pissed arsehole throw up all over her, or some idiot threatening to kick the shoot out of her because she won't sell him alcohol. Would you put up with that for minimum wage?

Don't get me started on the damage supermarkets do to the environment, the local economy, farming etc[/quote]

Ha thats hilarious. So all people who work on checkouts are there because they cant get a job anywhere else? If these supermarkets dont open 24/7 then they will have no job at all! Your sister should be grateful
And these people who cant organise their lives could be people such as doctors/shift workers/nurses who havent got a choice but to work those hours. Take it from me, 14 hour days and night shifts are no picnic. Honestly, these people who have kids and then have to struggle to make ends meet by working in a supermarket make me sick!

bluecow

AndyManc wrote:

Spitchips wrote:

I think that supermarkets are great for openinmg late. Say for example, you have been working all day then go to the gym in the evening for a few hourss. Go back home and make something to eat, only to realise you have run out of food and no breakfast in the morning,


:roll:

There are many 24/7's near me , they only ever have a couple of people during the night, yet the amount of power they consume is totally unrealistic and unnecessary.

It's only the past 20yrs that we've had 24/7's (not counting London) , what did people do before that ? , starve !!

Actually i think a lot of supermarkets open 24 hours because they have staff in overnight anyway restocking so they open a couple of tills for shoppers too. Makes good sense to me...

Simonb256

It actually costs me more to cycle to/from work than it would to commute by public transport.

To cycle my costs are:

Inital cost of bike : £500
new tyres every 3 months (as cycling 5 days a week would mean 1000 miles a month).: £50
new chain every quarter (ie every 3000 miles): £30
new cassette and chain rings every quarter (ie every 3000 miles): £100(ish)
Spare parts P.A.: £200 (I only replace/upgrade parts other than above when they break).

So thats:
£500(bike)+£920(parts etc) = £1420 yr1 and £920 per subsequent year.

commuting costs me around:

£845 (£65 for a bus/tram pass every four weeks).

Though it would still be less than driving.