Winter Training, What to do?

chrisb177

Hi,

In the summer I'm looking to join a club, do a few TTs etc. So I was going to use the off-season to build up my fitness etc. in preparation. But what should I be doing? I have heard about building our base fitness but haven't got a clue what to do :oops:

I have a spinning bike and DVDs and a treadmill as well as a v.good weights thing in the house so don't intend on going to the gym. The main thing is however I need to lose a bit of weight and try to be fast :P

Thanks in Advance

inseine

First thing, why not find a club now? Club runs are a good way of building some base, especially if you are starting from a lowish point, and at this time of year they should be pretty steady. You'll find that as the rides get faster (after christmas usually) your fitness will develop too and you'll get an idea of how fit you are relative to other riders.
Good luck. You've picked a good time to start your plan.

bahzob

Sorry but club runs need to be chosen pretty carefully in terms of building a base.

In a nutshell typical long base training ride involves spending a number of hours doing consistent pace in your "endurance" zone and as little as possible in your "recovery" zone. If you do them properly they feel like hard work. Club runs (if at all sociable) tend to be opposite, lot of time spent in recovery, relatively little in endurance zone. Plus they have a break after about 2 hours which is not really the ideal time (most especially if you ever plan to do competitive rides of 3 hours plus like sportives). (Plus during winter you may do one or more unplanned stops for puncture repair, which is really bad for training).

I speak as a bit of a convert on this. Getting some coaching from Beacon Ruth (of this forum) and she's been telling me for a while that club runs are not really training runs. So I have started a "fast" option for our club with specific focus on training.

Not saying club runs are of no benefit. If a beginner then they may be hard enough for training. And bigger clubs will have a number of different ride options available. But dont be suprised if you do them and find you only make slow progress in terms of speed and weight loss.

As couple of PS's to this
- If you want to lose weight and be fast + have limited time then try doing more intense rides of 1-2 hours at a fastish pace, just below the best you could maintain for an hour. This will burn up the most calories per hour, train one of the most important zones and allow quick recovery so you can do a number per week. If you go on a club run that feels slow one idea is to split off on way back from coffee stop and ride home at this sort of pace.

- One piece of wisdom I wish I had received when starting cycling seriously was "get some professional advice". I bought some books and qizmos like powermeters and made a fair amount of progress but still getting some proper coaching advice has made a step change in my progress. In terms of cost/benefit six months of professional advice building a personalised plan that would get you from now, through winter to TTs next year would IMO be the best cycling investment you could make.

inseine

That's all true bahzob, but I still think that if you're new to the game winter club runs can be productive. I haven't been on a run for years that has a cafe stop and most clubs have fatser and slower sections. I'd also be bored stiff if i spent all winter doing long rides on my own. I don't know your level but it seems a shame to take all the fun out of cycling when we're not exactly going to be pros. If you have the perserverance then yes your method is a good one, if not you'll be fed up of the bike by February.
If you join the club now you might meet some other guys who want to do the same training as you do. Go on, don't be an antisocial obsessive when you only just started, there's plenty of time for that later!

chrisb177

Thanks for the advice, this is what I was thinking of, more advice would be great

Mon - 4 Mile Run/Weights

Tues - 45 Minute Spinning

Wed - 45 Minute Spinning

Thurs - 4 Mile Run/Weights

Fri - 45 Minute Spinning

Sat - 10 Mile Ride

Sun - Rest Day

Slow Downcp

I'd spend more time on the bike.

BlackHelmet

chrisb177 wrote:

Thanks for the advice, this is what I was thinking of, more advice would be great
Mon - 4 Mile Run/Weights
Tues - 45 Minute Spinning
Wed - 45 Minute Spinning
Thurs - 4 Mile Run/Weights
Fri - 45 Minute Spinning
Sat - 10 Mile Ride
Sun - Rest Day

Not knowing your background or current fitness/strength levels, it's hard to comment too much but I also combine cycling, running and weights. So I'll make a few observational comments (I'm no coach).

Personally, I prefer two rest days each week.

I try not to combine weights & running in the same session but will run in the morning and weight train in the evening. But the weights are more for conditioning & core strength so I won't be lifting heavy weights so the fact I've done an AM run isn't a problem.

In the past couple of months I've introduced regular bike+run sessions. Commute 20 miles home on the bike and immediately go for a 2 mile run. Doesn't sound much but it's really boosted my fitness.

I'd suggest you change your 10 mile ride at the weekend to a 1 (or 1.5)hr ride.

As for club rides, I think they can be great training if your prepared to sit on the front for long periods and help set the pace. Then have a go at any hills. That's what I do on the few club rides I do annually

Rich-Ti

My twopenneth...

You only really 'need' one rest day, and it should be after your hardest effort - don't forget that for some a 'rest day' is still an exercise day, just much more gentle than an 'effort' or 'non-rest' day.

I don't think your 10 mile ride is big enough - that's only 30-45mins depending on topography and fitness. I'd say this one should be 40miles+ to have any real benefit.

BUT I'm not qualified, so take that with a pinch of salt...

inseine

I think that it's an OK plan to get fit, but it's not really a cycling specific plan. You don't say axactly what you want to achieve accept for the TTs (what dstance?) but you need to get a bit more time on the bike. At the moment your longest ride is 45mins and you should be looking for at least 1hr 30 even if you just plan to ride 10 mile TTs. By the time you've warmed up and cooled down it's really the minimum to build any sort of base.
If the cycling is your priority forget the weights and running since they are squeezing your cycling time to less than three hours a week. It's OK to do this as a 'tune up' before events but at this time of year it's not enough.

Bronzie

How hard are your 45 minute spinning sessions? I'd think they'd have to be pretty intense to derive much benefit from them. Do you wear a heart monitor or have some other way of gauging their intensity?

nickwill

As a mere sportive rider, I would concur with the idea that you are not spending enough time on the bike. Even at this 'off' time of the year I aim to spend at least 8 hours a week on the bike, and from January that will be steadily increased. On the other hand, I've never been near a gym in my life, so what do I know?

chrisb177

I have a two hour spinervals workout but haven't used it yet :oops: should I substitute both 45 sessions for this or just one?

Rich-Ti

chrisb177 wrote:

I have a two hour spinervals workout but haven't used it yet :oops: should I substitute both 45 sessions for this or just one?

I don't think it's your spinning sessions you need to increase - it's the Saturday 10miler that needs increasing

nickwill

chrisb177 wrote:

I have a two hour spinervals workout but haven't used it yet :oops: should I substitute both 45 sessions for this or just one?

I'm going to seem as if I'm banging on, but there is no substitute for getting on your bike and getting out on the road. Excercise machines and turbo trainers have their place, but the best way of getting base fitness is by real cycling!

EasyTom

This time of year a few weeks rest is the key. Don't worry about only doing about 5 hours a week on the bike. Keep your heart rate in zone one - able to breathe through your nose and not need your mouth. This is the time of year to not worry so much about your training.

Cross train with a bit of pilates, running, weights if you like. Eat well, keep healthy and start to build up a few more base miles after Christmas and phase in hard training Feb/March but exactly when to start the intervals etc depends on you and your race calendar.

(I've had nothing but colds and flu since the season ended - I've got to look into phasing in the rest weeks sensibly.)

Toks

EasyTom wrote:

This time of year a few weeks rest is the key.

Who exactly is it key for?

EasyTom

Toks wrote:

EasyTom wrote:

This time of year a few weeks rest is the key.

Who exactly is it key for?

Er - me? And, er, lots of people?

Toks

EasyTom wrote:

Toks wrote:

EasyTom wrote:

This time of year a few weeks rest is the key.

Who exactly is it key for?

Er - me? And, er, lots of people?

ok fine for you. But why would other peeps need a few weeks rest unless they've overtrained/fatigued or pros racing 100 times a year. I'm just trying to understand why you're recommending this as being key.

EasyTom

Toks wrote:

ok fine for you. But why would other peeps need a few weeks rest unless they've overtrained/fatigued or pros racing 100 times a year. I'm just trying to understand why you're recommending this as being key.

I am not a coach so I have only gained what I believe in from people who I know who do coach and from the internet etc. The benefits are said to be from allowing, not only a deep seated recovery of muscles/joints/ligaments etc and the immune system, but also a psychological recovery and time to reflect/relax and then focus again on the coming season. I am not claiming to be particularly expert and/or experienced but I know cyclists who are and I have tried to do a fair amount of research.

Here's one example of someone talking about the benefits of taking it easy for a few weeks:
http://www.thetriathloncoach.com/End-of ... eed-it.php

What do you think? Do you race and train the same all year round? I know some people do...

Toks

EasyTom wrote:

Toks wrote:

ok fine for you. But why would other peeps need a few weeks rest unless they've overtrained/fatigued or pros racing 100 times a year. I'm just trying to understand why you're recommending this as being key.

I am not a coach so I have only gained what I believe in from people who I know who do coach and from the internet etc. The benefits are said to be from allowing, not only a deep seated recovery of muscles/joints/ligaments etc and the immune system, but also a psychological recovery and time to reflect/relax and then focus again on the coming season. I am not claiming to be particularly expert and/or experienced but I know cyclists who are and I have tried to do a fair amount of research.

Here's one example of someone talking about the benefits of taking it easy for a few weeks:
http://www.thetriathloncoach.com/End-of ... eed-it.php

What do you think? Do you race and train the same all year round? I know some people do...

I race between the months of April and September. On an average week my training hours are between 7-9 hours. Even holding down a full time job and racing about 35 times last season I can honestly tell you I've never felt over trained or tired such that I need to take a few weeks off the bike. A few days here and there certainly. An enforced break due to a holiday, family changes or recovery from a heavy cold once or twice a year sure.

It probably looks like I'm trying to attack you but I'm not. The "take a few weeks off during the winter "aproach is advice thats is meted out by a lot of folks and unfortunately its often aimed at people who never reach the point where they are fried either mentally or physically.

My girlfriend and a few of her friends got into cycling proper during the spring. They're goals will be to do sportivs or join clubs. What are they taking a break for there's absolutley no need? The motivation is there and they are getting fitter. Winter is a great time to build on their current fitness levels

As someone said to me recently - why would I take a month off over winter when I only ride my bike for 4-6 hours every week. I would loose all my hard earned fitness which interestingly enough continues to gradually improve each winter.

PS All that stuff about deep seated recovery for tendons and muscle possibly refers to one being over trained. I'll guarantee you the vast majority of peeple on this forum have such busy lives that the chance to even become over trained is very unlikely

chrisw12

Got to agree with young Toks here.

There's no point in taking a rest if you're just starting or if you aint doing much anyway.

For what it's worth I had three seasons of what I'd call hard winter training 'against people's advice' then managed a fulll seasons racing with no problems.

That being said, in the 4th season the wheels came off, by July I'd had enough, took the rest of the summer off, I'm now ready to train again and hopefully last another 3 seasons.

So what I'm trying to say is yes perhaps there will be a time where you need to take time out but I'd doudt the op is at that point.

EasyTom

Hey - I'm not going to argue. However, I do just want to clarify that I'm not talking about taking weeks off. I'm still training 5-9 hrs a week on the bike, but just keeping in my aerobic zone. I'm just not doing any racing or any interval training etc. You may be right but the only other thing I'd say is the advice I've been given/read about isn't talking about perceived tiredness and it suggests that a few weeks off the hard training means you do lose a bit of an edge to your anaerobic threshold etc but the idea is that you will come back stronger in the spring.

As I said before, though, I've done no scientific reseach myself so I'm not going to blab on about it anymore (I don't have any statistics to back up the idea) - and I'm not here to convince anyone that I'm right, just put forward my point of view. I guess we all have to choose what advice to believe and find what seems to work for us unless we have the back up of a training scientist and a load of accurate personal fitness data.

inseine

I'm sure all this talk of rest is interesting, but the OP asked a question and he's clearly new to the sport so I don't think he needs to start with a rest!
I still maintain that joining and riding with a club now and not leaving it 'til next summer is a good idea. If he's only riding 10 miles a week outdoors he's going to learn loads riding in a group and his fittness will improve even if these rides are not scientifically ideal.

BeaconRuth

I agree with you, Inseine. And with everyone who said the OP should increase the amount of road riding he does. 10 miles doesn't really cut it for a cyclist if it's your longest weekly road ride. Build that up to 40miles and you're getting somewhere.

And, despite me saying to Bahzob that clubruns are not the best training for him, I wouldn't give that advice to Chrisb177. Clubruns would probably do him the world of good.

EasyTom - you're not wrong, but looking at where this guy's starting from, I don't think he needs the physical or psychological break that some of us need after a hard season.

Ruth

EasyTom

Yeah - you're right in all the hullabaloo I was losing sight of the original post...

Toks

EasyTom wrote:

Hey - I'm not going to argue. However, I do just want to clarify that I'm not talking about taking weeks off. I'm still training 5-9 hrs a week on the bike, but just keeping in my aerobic zone. I'm just not doing any racing or any interval training etc. You may be right but the only other thing I'd say is the advice I've been given/read about isn't talking about perceived tiredness and it suggests that a few weeks off the hard training means you do lose a bit of an edge to your anaerobic threshold etc but the idea is that you will come back stronger in the spring.

As I said before, though, I've done no scientific reseach myself so I'm not going to blab on about it anymore (I don't have any statistics to back up the idea) - and I'm not here to convince anyone that I'm right, just put forward my point of view. I guess we all have to choose what advice to believe and find what seems to work for us unless we have the back up of a training scientist and a load of accurate personal fitness data.

Hey Tom No worries Now you've clarified things it makes more sense especially as you're a competitive cyclist which puts you in a minority. Unfortunately posting generalised comments on forums will always draw out a few zealots you gotta be careful. :twisted: Now moving on to that aerobic zone you speak of! Only joking

juggler

chrisb177 wrote:

Thanks for the advice, this is what I was thinking of, more advice would be great

Mon - 4 Mile Run/Weights

Tues - 45 Minute Spinning

Wed - 45 Minute Spinning

Thurs - 4 Mile Run/Weights

Fri - 45 Minute Spinning

Sat - 10 Mile Ride

Sun - Rest Day

No expert but the 10 mile ride looks way too short. Either Saturday or sunday try and build up to a 3hr ride or better. I find spinning classes pretty good this time of year, but you have to work hard, if the bike isnlt surrounded by a pool of sweat after 45mins then you probably aren;t working hard enough for training benefit, if you can manage 30 mins hard effort on the bike before the class starts , then even better.

chrisb177

juggler wrote:

chrisb177 wrote:

Thanks for the advice, this is what I was thinking of, more advice would be great

Mon - 4 Mile Run/Weights

Tues - 45 Minute Spinning

Wed - 45 Minute Spinning

Thurs - 4 Mile Run/Weights

Fri - 45 Minute Spinning

Sat - 10 Mile Ride

Sun - Rest Day

No expert but the 10 mile ride looks way too short. Either Saturday or sunday try and build up to a 3hr ride or better. I find spinning classes pretty good this time of year, but you have to work hard, if the bike isnlt surrounded by a pool of sweat after 45mins then you probably aren;t working hard enough for training benefit, if you can manage 30 mins hard effort on the bike before the class starts , then even better.

Yeah, I have a Two hour spinning thing as well which i think i'm going to incorporate into it, instead of a 4 mile run on one of the days and change the 10 mile to 30 or 40 miles

BigDunk

Join a club now,riding with people who will help you ,will not only encourage you,they can give road awarness vital in winter for the beginer.they can also give advise during your rides ,get you in the chain where you can have a good go at the front,or,if its a decent club ,keep you in the left lane and protect you.
I would agree with most comments and say your only 'rideout' is far too short to be of any benefit.Even if you do go out on your own find a loop door to door of about 30/40miles.This might seem a lot,but, you will probably average 15/18 mph,so door to door 2/2.5 hours then try to beat this time next time out.good luck