Red-light jumper blackens my name!

gtvlusso

Yeah, I guess so - Still, it shows passion.....bless!

ansbaradigeidfran

glebrus wrote:

That the motorist's eye/brain is not trained to see and identify a cyclist and react properly is a much bigger problem than RLJing or motorists hating cyclists, IMHO

By night, flashing lights are making this as lot easier. By day, well it's up to drivers to make the right connections.

As an aside, I think that a car driving at night with one headlamp broken is the most dangerous thing I encuonter on the road, as I think it's only as wide as a (motor)bike.

glebrus

Somehow, I didn't want to RLJ today. It was very difficult to control the bike in deep snow. I never want to RLJ when driving, for similar reasons.

So, the only argument contra RLJing was that it offends motorists and makes them unhappy. There is no physical reason to forbid RLJing by cyclists. The bicycle is much better controlled in normal conditions, and cyclists are very well motivated to avoid accidents.

Stopping unnecessarily is so counterintutive when cycling! It is just wrong and unnatural. There is no real reason for it. Why not make RLJing by cyclists legal then? The law would be respected and all sides would be happy (if it is ever possible).

If all cyclists RLJ when they want, it would become normal, and the motorists would learn how to live with it without feeling so offended.

We can make RLJ legal if we just do it when we see it's safe and OK. Forcing cyclists to adhere to the motoring law is a very artificial restriction. Somehow, I don't feel guilty when I break it. And I do respect motorists, honestly.

BTW, thank you all for sharing your ideas.

Beeblebrox

Legalising RLJing would confuse the right of way too much. A green light is 'proceed with caution' but it does also signalise your complete right of way at a junction. Having a secondary vehicle give way running constantly whatever the lights would create more dangerous situations.
As I've said already, a town centre with plenty of traffic and traffic lights is never going to be the best place to get the speed runs with maximum efficiency - in that situation everyone is just trying to get somewhere as fast and as safely as possible.

ansbaradigeidfran

Beeblebrox wrote:

Legalising RLJing would confuse the right of way too much. A green light is 'proceed with caution' but it does also signalise your complete right of way at a junction.

A green light isn't complete right of way: think of turning right with oncoming traffic. A green arrow, however, is.

I'm off back to the pedant's corner now...

biondino

AndyManc, if other cyclists behave in a way that makes people in possession of a high speed killing machine actively hate or resent me when I'm on my bike then yeah, I do care what car drivers think. So should you.

Glebrus, I wasn't referring to you with my "lol" comment, you're very courteous and explain yourself well.

Eat My Dust

Can I add a scenario.

Your RLJ safely, when further down the road you get hit by a car (not your fault). The police arrive and start to take witness statements. What do you think all the cagers would be saying? "yeah I saw him a couple of miles back, just sailing through the red lights" I think that would put you in a comprimising position if you had to claim through the courts, or even worse if the crash was fatal, you'd just be another cyclist breaking the law who was dead. The anti cycling brigade would love that ammo!

AndyManc

biondino wrote:

AndyManc, if other cyclists behave in a way that makes people in possession of a high speed killing machine actively hate or resent me when I'm on my bike then yeah, I do care what car drivers think. So should you.

The problem is the with driver of the 'killing machine', anyone that thinks that they have the right to inflict injury ( or worse ) against those that they feel transgress the rules of the road is not fit to be in charge of a motor vehicle and should be removed from the road for life.

ride_whenever

thinking about this, how hard would it be to legalise and police a little vigilante-ism?

I mean, person RLJ through pedestrians, peds can know him off, cycling on pavement, the same. Vandalism etc. reduces the police workload and curbs crime...

jedster

Not sure this angle has been properly covered in this thread:

I don't think RLJing as done by most RLJing cyclists is particularly dangerous or irresponsible I just think it's rude and obnoxious. It's rude because we have an ettiquette for getting along with each other on the road (called the highway code!) and breaches of it are by definition ill-mannered.

I don't think RLJing is a great crime (unless done in an absoultely stupid way which I hardly ever see). I just think it's akin to:

not holding the door open for people
not giving your seat up to an elderly person on the tube
not saying thank you in a shop
not saying "he was here first" when the barman offers to serve you before the guy whose turn it is

On occasions, most of us given in to temptation and are ill-mannered. But in general, I try really hard not to give in to my inner Mr @rsehole.

So when I see people RLJing I just think "what a sad @rse". I don't really get angry, just a bit disappointed that someone else has given in to their inner Mr @rsehole. The world has just got a tiny bit less pleasant.

J

always_tyred

jedster wrote:

Not sure this angle has been properly covered in this thread:

I don't think RLJing as done by most RLJing cyclists is particularly dangerous or irresponsible I just think it's rude and obnoxious. It's rude because we have an ettiquette for getting along with each other on the road (called the highway code!) and breaches of it are by definition ill-mannered.

I don't think RLJing is a great crime (unless done in an absoultely stupid way which I hardly ever see). I just think it's akin to:

not holding the door open for people
not giving your seat up to an elderly person on the tube
not saying thank you in a shop
not saying "he was here first" when the barman offers to serve you before the guy whose turn it is

On occasions, most of us given in to temptation and are ill-mannered. But in general, I try really hard not to give in to my inner Mr @rsehole.

So when I see people RLJing I just think "what a sad @rse". I don't really get angry, just a bit disappointed that someone else has given in to their inner Mr @rsehole. The world has just got a tiny bit less pleasant.

J

You have an inner arsshole? This might be new to medical science. "The amazing waterproof man."

tailwindhome

jedster wrote:

Not sure this angle has been properly covered in this thread:

I don't think RLJing as done by most RLJing cyclists is particularly dangerous or irresponsible I just think it's rude and obnoxious. It's rude because we have an ettiquette for getting along with each other on the road (called the highway code!) and breaches of it are by definition ill-mannered.

I don't think RLJing is a great crime (unless done in an absoultely stupid way which I hardly ever see). I just think it's akin to:

not holding the door open for people
not giving your seat up to an elderly person on the tube
not saying thank you in a shop
not saying "he was here first" when the barman offers to serve you before the guy whose turn it is

On occasions, most of us given in to temptation and are ill-mannered. But in general, I try really hard not to give in to my inner Mr @rsehole.

So when I see people RLJing I just think "what a sad @rse". I don't really get angry, just a bit disappointed that someone else has given in to their inner Mr @rsehole. The world has just got a tiny bit less pleasant.

J

Red light jumping is I believe (from reading other posts) a degree higher on the annoyance scale than your examples.


It's more like

Taking 20 items through the 10 items or less queue
Parking in a Disabled/ Parent and child spot

hondafanatic

As my name indicates, I'm a petrolhead. I love cars and when i'm not mtb'ing at the weekend I'll be doing trackdays. I've love bikes as well and I know there are others on this board that are the same as me; bikes and cars are great.

However, the one thing that gets picked up most of all by my fellow driving petrolheads are RLJs. You can visibly see their change of mood on their face when this gets brought up.

What happens is that the common RLJ'er is bunched in with the cyclists who nearly wipe out people at Zebra/Pelican crossings. In their mind, they are no different.

I am confident that my driving buddies are good drivers and wouldn't think of retribution via their car, however, if the council asked their opinion on whether more public money should be spent on having a safer environment for cyclists by whatever means; they'd remember that RLJ'er and say feck 'em. They're all law breaking twonks.

Likewise, I see it many times on this forum, people will group all car drivers as twonks.

To me, it's a question of mutual respect and understanding what affect your attitude has on those around you - even the enemy.

I cycled in today, I must have filtered past 50 odd cars, been overtaken by a similar amount. I cannot remember a single one of them. Except the twonk that forced me to brake hard because he misjudged my speed. It was a mistake, it happens, i lived.

When I went for my lunch today, as a pedestrian, I cannot remember a single cyclist that went past me. Except the twonk riding on the pavement.

As I cycle home tonight, I won't remember any of the other cyclist i'll pass (although it would help my FCN number if i did); except the twonk riding with no lights.

If I was driving, he would be the only cyclist i'd remember.

It's easy to know one's rights, but it doesn't mean much if you don't know ones responsibilities that those rights give you.

If helps any anti-car people reading this, I posted a similar thread on my car forum, only I swapped car and bike references where appropriate.

The above post is nothing more than my thoughts on t'internet and not meant to flame anything.

all the best
david

Jen J

Nice post.

hondafanatic

Jen J wrote:

Nice post.

Ta - to be honest, I would never post anything like that because it's easy to read things the wrong way on the internet and i don't do confrontation all that well...but it's been something bugging me for a while on both forums. :oops:

cheers
david

always_tyred

hondafanatic wrote:

Jen J wrote:

Nice post.

Ta - to be honest, I would never post anything like that because it's easy to read things the wrong way on the internet and i don't do confrontation all that well...but it's been something bugging me for a while on both forums. :oops:

cheers
david

WHY DON'T YOU WANT CONFRONTATION?!!!

( )

hondafanatic

Always Tyred wrote:

hondafanatic wrote:

Jen J wrote:

Nice post.

Ta - to be honest, I would never post anything like that because it's easy to read things the wrong way on the internet and i don't do confrontation all that well...but it's been something bugging me for a while on both forums. :oops:

cheers
david

WHY DON'T YOU WANT CONFRONTATION?!!!

( )

'Cause I always lose....i'm married.

PS...If, as you say you are love, omnipotent and currently reading this...I was just joking.

biondino

Excellent post hondafanatic.

always_tyred

There is so much hidden sadness in that post.

glebrus

I wish to inform the members of discussion that
I have seriously reconsidered my position on RLJ-ing.
I will try to control my instincts and refrain from jumping the red lights.
Thank you.

Headhuunter

Crapaud wrote:

JoeSoap76 wrote:

I was just about to get changed for my commute home this afternoon when a colleague said - actually, more shouted - "I hope you won't be jumping any lights on the way home!"
It wasn't a casual comment, it was almost an accusation. ...

You should have said to him, "I hope you'll be paying attention to the traffic, rather than putting on your make-up / using yor mobile!!"

Or I hope you won't be breaking the speed limit, even by 1mph....