Justice for Baby P

bodybuilder68

I cried when I read about this little boy, how can this be allowed to happen?

Click the link below to sign the petition.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/ne ... 936179.ece

fast as fupp

i wouldnt wipe my a-r-s-e on the s*n

so for that reason im out

alfablue

It was an extremely upsetting case, but the Sun (and their readership) has the mentality of the lynch mob. Let the proper processes take place, if on the evidence there are people who are responsible they can be dealt with AFTER that evidence has been scrutinised. I too share Fast as Fupp's sentiments about that rag.

bodybuilder68

fast as fupp wrote:

i wouldnt wipe my a-r-s-e on the s*n

so for that reason im out

nor would I but its not really about the S*n is it?

stevewj

How about a petition to bring back hanging - I'd sign in a flash.

fast as fupp

bodybuilder68 wrote:

fast as fupp wrote:

i wouldnt wipe my a-r-s-e on the s*n

so for that reason im out

nor would I but its not really about the S*n is it?

if you think the answer to child neglect and mistreatment is to sack a few social workers then maybe you should be reading the s*n

alfablue

bodybuilder68 wrote:

fast as fupp wrote:

i wouldnt wipe my a-r-s-e on the s*n

so for that reason im out

nor would I but its not really about the S*n is it?

It is about the Sun boosting it's circulation by whipping up the hysteria. Hysteria never has been an effective way of dealing with problems.

nwallace

I woudl be questioning the GMC about the doctor who looked at Baby P not long before he died rather than the Social Work Department.

Social Workers are damned if they get it right and Damned if they get it wrong. Non Murdoch reports about the case seem to show that the head of that social work department is in fact bloody good. It's like sacking the minister in charge of the home office when something goes wrong. It;s probably the Mandarins fault it screwed up. In this case it looks liek the culprits were bloody good at hiding the neglect and knowing what social workers can and can't do.

THe only petition I am signing is one to take the sun of the news stands,.

chriskempton

I hope it's not going to be a feature of the recession that people look to take out their anger via press-led witch hunts. First it was the Ross-Brand thing, now it's Baby P. I'm not saying Haringey Social Services did nothing wrong (I don't think anyone KNOWS that yet), but the response is of course out of proportion.

The emphasis should surely be on the killers (who incidentally are not facing murder, or even manslaughter charges) rather than the social workers.

boybiker

chriskempton wrote:

I hope it's not going to be a feature of the recession that people look to take out their anger via press-led witch hunts. First it was the Ross-Brand thing, now it's Baby P. I'm not saying Haringey Social Services did nothing wrong (I don't think anyone KNOWS that yet), but the response is of course out of proportion.

The emphasis should surely be on the killers (who incidentally are not facing murder, or even manslaughter charges) rather than the social workers.

I don't know if it has occurred to you that people become social workers for pretty much the same reason that they become teachers, which is mainly that they are unable to do anything else, so you are putting peoples lives in the hands of people that you really wouldn't trust to look after a dog.

alfablue

boybiker wrote:

I don't know if it has occurred to you that people become social workers for pretty much the same reason that they become teachers, which is mainly that they are unable to do anything else, so you are putting peoples lives in the hands of people that you really wouldn't trust to look after a dog.

Boybiker, I can excuse your ignorance and prejudice because I presume you are indeed a mere boy, but if you are so much more capable, why don't you do the job? Ah..didn't think so.

By the way, I have been a social worker, a nurse, and a teacher, so I am a living contradiction to your dumb assertion! I can do at least 3 things!

bobtbuilder

I don't know if it has occurred to you that people become social workers for pretty much the same reason that they become teachers, which is mainly that they are unable to do anything else, so you are putting peoples lives in the hands of people that you really wouldn't trust to look after a dog.

That is such utter naive bullsh*t. It would be funny, if it wasn't so sad.

My girlfriend has a degree (first), but chose to become a social worker, because she wanted to do a job where she felt she was helping.

downfader

For all the failings arent the sun missing the point? It was the parents that did this, not the social workers.

Social workers are facing the same staff shortages and under funding the nhs and police are. I do worry that these people are being made a scapegoat. If they are proven to have been neglectful in their duties then fair enough, but until then the sun is just a comic book.

alfablue

Social workers generally work under tremendous pressure and with limited resources. The public want or need more and more care but certainly don't want to pay for it through taxes. Probably like other health and social care professionals, they always go home with nagging doubts about those in their care, hoping and praying that their clients do not do the unexpected, and carry the weight of responsibility that society places on their shoulders for very little recompense..

There really is a balance to be had between over-zealous intervention and an inadequately vigilant stance, all such professionals and organisations will be striving, within the laws, regulations and resources available to them, to get this balance right. Where they draw that line determines if children unnecessarily get taken into care, or whether some more children come to harm, but there is no exact science, it is a risk assessment, such assessments can always be flawed.

We might, for example, have to take 5000 more children in to care to prevent one such death where the evidence for the risk assessment is marginal. Are we willing to do that? Probably no more than we would accept mandatory road speed limits at 20mph because it might save 1000 lives per year on the roads.

One thing is certain though, if you are a social worker, you will never get praise for the thousands of right decisions you make that save lives, but you will get pilloried for the one time in your career where you might get it wrong.

Cunobelin

Howzabout adding the lawyer who prevented the child being taken into care?


There is no point in this victimisation and bullying as it serves only to harass a few individuals and not neccessarilythe ones who had any great say in the first place.

boybiker

alfablue wrote:

boybiker wrote:

I don't know if it has occurred to you that people become social workers for pretty much the same reason that they become teachers, which is mainly that they are unable to do anything else, so you are putting peoples lives in the hands of people that you really wouldn't trust to look after a dog.

Boybiker, I can excuse your ignorance and prejudice because I presume you are indeed a mere boy, but if you are so much more capable, why don't you do the job? Ah..didn't think so.

By the way, I have been a social worker, a nurse, and a teacher, so I am a living contradiction to your dumb assertion! I can do at least 3 things!

sorry but that is just complete bollocks, like they say 'those that can do, those that cannot teach.'
I would be pretty ashamed to say I was a social worker.

alfablue

boybiker wrote:

alfablue wrote:

boybiker wrote:

I don't know if it has occurred to you that people become social workers for pretty much the same reason that they become teachers, which is mainly that they are unable to do anything else, so you are putting peoples lives in the hands of people that you really wouldn't trust to look after a dog.

Boybiker, I can excuse your ignorance and prejudice because I presume you are indeed a mere boy, but if you are so much more capable, why don't you do the job? Ah..didn't think so.

By the way, I have been a social worker, a nurse, and a teacher, so I am a living contradiction to your dumb assertion! I can do at least 3 things!

sorry but that is just complete bollocks, like they say 'those that can do, those that cannot teach.'
I would be pretty ashamed to say I was a social worker.

Your powers of logical argument are most impressive Boybiker - now you have informed me it is complete bollocks I obviously understand your well thought through position on this.

As for "those that can do" etc I did for 20 years, rising to the top of my profession, now I teach how I did it. Have you anything to offer other than bad language and cliche? Or is that it?

So, are you saying there should be no social workers?

And if you would be ashamed to be a social worker, tell me, what job is it that you do that you are so proud of?

Le Commentateur

"I would be pretty ashamed to say I was a social worker."

Which is perhaps why you don't do it (or teach), as you are seemingly more influenced by what you consider the perceived status of the job than any merit it may have.

chriskempton

Boybiker, what experience do you have to say that you wouldn't trust social workers to look after a dog?

Do you not think that maybe there's thousands of other would-be Baby P's that weren't tortured to death as a result of the intervention of social workers?

You're disrespecting people that work in difficult circumstances (physical danger, verbal and physical assault, some nasty people that want to do bad things) for relatively low pay to stop things like this happening.

This really should be obvious to you.

Knob

alfablue

I wonder if Boybiker has made a strategic withdrawal for some reflection - one can hope!

sicknote

BikerBoy

I have been in the Haringay social services ( it was some time ago ) and still live just down the road from there.
I know the areas these people have to work in and for you to say what you have does show you have a LOT of growing up to do.

The social workers have a real hard job and dont do it because they cant do anything else ( dont get paid as much as they should do as far as I am concerned), its a job you have to wont to do and its people like you that had more than likely had an easy life that can come up with tripe like that.

please if you do have something to say, think before you write it down.

ivancarlos

It is a strange paradox that no-one seems to want a nanny state but as soon as anything goes wrong they think that the system should have been able to do more to stop it from happening whereas we should be having a long hard look at how we treat the perpretators of these vile crimes. In my mind they forfeited their own right to life when they did this and should be dispatched forthwith. The state will now have to spend a lot of money keeping them, trying to rehabilitate them and helping them get new identities before they can live in society again. Everyone's a loser keeping them alive, including them as they have to live with their consciences for the rest of their lives, if they have one? If you have a sick animal the humane thing to do is to put it down.

Anonymous

i would fucking hang the cunts for what they did to that poor defenceless child! no doubt we will have some bleeding heart solicitor telling us what a bad childhood these fucking murdering scum have had and trying to get a reduction in their sentence! how can any fucking solicitor represent fucking scum like this knowing full well what they have done and sleep soundly in their bed at night! money talks fucking have a go at these parasites not social workers who save many children from the same fate! the problem is that the social workers police and others in authority are terrified of making a mistake in case they are sued by the politically correct parasite fuckers!

Eau Rouge

ivancarlos wrote:

they forfeited their own right to life

But that's the whole point with human rights.....you can't forfeit them no more than you can take them away. If you could, they wouldn't be human rights, they would be mere laws.

Either you believe in human rights, and therefore believe murdering murders (to say nothing of those not even accused of murder) is still murder no matter what the law could ever say about it, or you have no real reason to give a crap about the life and death of a baby you never knew.

ivancarlos

Eau Rouge wrote:

ivancarlos wrote:

they forfeited their own right to life

But that's the whole point with human rights.....you can't forfeit them no more than you can take them away. If you could, they wouldn't be human rights, they would be mere laws.

Either you believe in human rights, and therefore believe murdering murders (to say nothing of those not even accused of murder) is still murder no matter what the law could ever say about it, or you have no real reason to give a crap about the life and death of a baby you never knew.

What I dont give a crap about is arguing semantics about whether they are rights or laws. Your murder is my humane killing.

sicknote

If the people that did this ever see freedom, then or law has something very wrong with it.
Plus I dont think they should waste the money on them too.

discurio

you be ashamed to call yourself a social worker but what if you found yourself in need of one some day would being so proud stop you.

sh1thead

Bikerbaboon

Sicknote wrote:

If the people that did this ever see freedom, then or law has something very wrong with it.
Plus I dont think they should waste the money on them too.

they will get out, and when they do for their own safety will be put in to a protection program.
What they are accused of doing is a terriable thing. But you can judge a county by the way that it deals with its criminals.
People are braying for justice but what they are wanting is vengance a good old bit of an eye for an eye to make them feel that they are safe and sound again. If we all go for an eye for an eye they the world will be blind.

This is not saying that we need to go easy on criminals, I do think that the prison system needs a shakeup to make it a deterant.

To get justice for baby P we need to wake up and realise that the children are the future. and we need to work to make sure that the future is one that we are proud of.
If socalworkers are struggeling then we as a county need to step up to the plate dig deep in our pockets and help.
If teachers have problems with children and rase issues with the parents then the parants need to work with hte school to find a solution.
I also think that this lynch mob attitude has already damaged how we view children due to the pedophile out rage.

How many men would feel 100%l happy to pick up a young girl aged 2-3 that they saw crying in the street with no obious parent about, or would you haev a twinge of worrie about getting accused of all sorts?

Thats down to hate rags like the sun throwing blame and hate at every thing
Please forevery ones sake never act out of hate, only act out of love and careing and the world would be a much happyer place.

sicknote

Bikerbaboon

I do agree with some of what you say but as a parent myself I find it very hard to get my head a round in any way.

Some of the things that happen now on your street is because the is not the justice that there use to be.

I saw to young kids shouting ( well one of them ) at some Asians outside a shop they work in and it was raciest ( I do not say this lightly as I have had it in my face ), the boy tried to turn on me after I ask him to stop.

The thing is when I was that age I knew if I was to try that ( act like a man as I see it ) I would have been treaded like one with a slap, so I would not have tried it.


It is not justice if someone does this to a baby ( when they can give it away ) and is let free at any time.

Parents are also missing in action as far as I can see and it leaves me sad to see an area I grew up in go to the dogs because of it.

Children have to be protected but they have to much power to do what they want with on or little come back, how does this teach they right from wrong?

We do have to support your are teachers and other services.

I would pick up a 2-3 year old if I could not see a parent and as a parent I would have wanted the same for my kids.

Bikerbaboon

Sicknote wrote:

Bikerbaboon

I do agree with some of what you say but as a parent myself I find it very hard to get my head a round in any way.

Some of the things that happen now on your street is because the is not the justice that there use to be.

I saw to young kids shouting ( well one of them ) at some Asians outside a shop they work in and it was raciest ( I do not say this lightly as I have had it in my face ), the boy tried to turn on me after I ask him to stop.

The thing is when I was that age I knew if I was to try that ( act like a man as I see it ) I would have been treaded like one with a slap, so I would not have tried it.


It is not justice if someone does this to a baby ( when they can give it away ) and is let free at any time.

Parents are also missing in action as far as I can see and it leaves me sad to see an area I grew up in go to the dogs because of it.

Children have to be protected but they have to much power to do what they want with on or little come back, how does this teach they right from wrong?

We do have to support your are teachers and other services.

I would pick up a 2-3 year old if I could not see a parent and as a parent I would have wanted the same for my kids.

My post was not saying that i wanted the people that have done this to be set free ever.
My post was looking at alot of the posts above and articles in newspapers are about how wrong every one was how bad the people where that did this and how outrages we all need to be. Its all Hate Hate Hate.

the question about the child on the street was raised as i have resently watched a program by esta ranson about getting our children back. She did just that... had a child actor stood in a shopping center looking distressed with hidden cameras, the child had to wait up to 3 hours for an adult to approch to even ask if they where ok. when interviwed the adults all said they where worried about how they would be seen for aproching the child.

Children are a blank canvas as we teach them everything they know. Bad or good they learn from sociaty, parants,TV, peopel they pass on the street. If the kids are bad its our fault and we need to do something about it.

rhext

Surely 'justice' requires investigation in order to find out what went wrong. It's pretty obvious who is to blame for this: the parents. The big question is whether any of the professionals involved acted reasonably in the circumstances. Sacking the head of social services without a proper investigation isn't 'justice'.