Footpath Question

stubs

There is a problem with water access in england and wales as well. I have a canadian canoe and I have been shouted at and threatened with the police quite a few times using it on quite large rivers seems you cant go anywhere or do anything in this FREE COUNTRY without breaking a law.

No one seems to stop the chavs using our estate as a race track and car dump though wouldnt want to infringe the little bastards human rights would we. So next time I go for a ride on a footpath I am going to wear the finest gold soveriegn rings and a hoodie and no one will stop me.

Belphegor

stubs wrote:

There is a problem with water access in england and wales as well. I have a canadian canoe and I have been shouted at and threatened with the police quite a few times using it on quite large rivers seems you cant go anywhere or do anything in this FREE COUNTRY without breaking a law.

Rivers are quite often owned in sections by the landowners whose land they flow through. I think. Wouldn't have thought it a problem unless you were fishing off your canoe though. Were you actually breaking the law, or were they the ones who don't know what they're shouting about?

.blitz

Although (as Dave says) the law is quite clear about riding on footpaths, what constitutes a footpath is not always so obvious. OS maps can be out-of-date and the definitive maps are held by the local council.

Many times I've been 'country walking' and a path has been diverted or closed. Sometimes the landowner or local authority has done it properly and applied for permission etc but equally so there have been times when a stile into a field has been blocked by hedgerows or a path simply ploughed up and planted over. If a landowner can show that a right-of-way has fallen into disuse, they can apply to have it removed from the definitive map and hence it is lost forever. Back in the day there were RUPPs and bridleways everywhere but because of nimbys and mindless legislation that defines 'standards' for these rights-of-way, it's easier and cheaper to simply downgrade them to footpaths and ultimately close them.

Best bet is to head to Wales where I believe the 'right to roam' still exists on hillsides above 2000ft. But you have to get there first

europeandy

dave_hill wrote:

europeandy wrote:

My understanding of the Scottish Outdoor Access Code is that you have a legal right to take responsible access pretty much anywhere in Scotland, with a few exception such as curtelage (front gardens etc). This includes using non motorised transport such as bikes and canoes.

Hmm. Not sure about canoing the West Highland Way... :shock:

well you should have seen me cycling the Spey

stubs

Belphegor wrote:

stubs wrote:

There is a problem with water access in england and wales as well. I have a canadian canoe and I have been shouted at and threatened with the police quite a few times using it on quite large rivers seems you cant go anywhere or do anything in this FREE COUNTRY without breaking a law.

Rivers are quite often owned in sections by the landowners whose land they flow through. I think. Wouldn't have thought it a problem unless you were fishing off your canoe though. Were you actually breaking the law, or were they the ones who don't know what they're shouting about?

No wasnt fishing on rivers I would understand the anger if we were but it is just two idiots pretending we are Ray Mears

Belphegor

stubs wrote:

Belphegor wrote:

stubs wrote:

There is a problem with water access in england and wales as well. I have a canadian canoe and I have been shouted at and threatened with the police quite a few times using it on quite large rivers seems you cant go anywhere or do anything in this FREE COUNTRY without breaking a law.

Rivers are quite often owned in sections by the landowners whose land they flow through. I think. Wouldn't have thought it a problem unless you were fishing off your canoe though. Were you actually breaking the law, or were they the ones who don't know what they're shouting about?

No wasnt fishing on rivers I would understand the anger if we were but it is just two idiots pretending we are Ray Mears

To complain of trespass I wonder how they'd obtain evidence of you 'damaging' the water anyway!

pilsburypie

Oh Stubs, your sentiments ring so true..... whilst reading the many entries in this post, I found myself deliberating when I should ride or walk. I am a law abidng citizen with a family and a job. I pay my taxes and frown at people defacing our surroundings and dropping litter. I bring up my children to respect people and their surroundings unlike most of the inbreds that live near me. I reserve the right, if the path is clear, to cycle reasonably down a footpath and give someone the bird if they want to pass judgement on my calous actions (Let's see them voice their opinions against a group of thugs smashing up a bus stop when they are on their own down a dark street).

Petethebogmonster

Riding on the pavement is illegal, and pedestrians are quite erratic so I personally leave well alone, even cycle paths that are shared with pedestrians I try to avoid. I prefer to use the road as much as possible, and with good knowledge gained through reading appropriate literature I feel very safe and confident actively engaging with other road users, as they tend to react more favourably to me if I make myself visible and indicate my intentions clearly. There are always a few idiots, but you learn to identify them quite quickly and give them a wide berth. There is also training out there if you want to be more confident on the road, leave the pavements for those who want to walk...

zeroseven

Petethebogmonster wrote:

There is also training out there if you want to be more confident on the road, ..

Good point. Its a much underrated thing. I thought I was pretty handy on a motorbike until I did as few training days. A 2 day cornering school at Snetterton transformed my confidence, then a one day 'Ride and Survive' course with a Police motorcyclist (the only nice filth I've ever met). He taught us how to make rapid progress without riding like a tosser. Very rapid. Alarmingly so considering what he did for a living. Top fella

If there's something out there that could teach me as much on a bicycle I'd love to do it......

Petethebogmonster

zeroseven wrote:

Petethebogmonster wrote:

There is also training out there if you want to be more confident on the road, ..

Good point. Its a much underrated thing. I thought I was pretty handy on a motorbike until I did as few training days. A 2 day cornering school at Snetterton transformed my confidence, then a one day 'Ride and Survive' course with a Police motorcyclist (the only nice filth I've ever met). He taught us how to make rapid progress without riding like a tosser. Very rapid. Alarmingly so considering what he did for a living. Top fella

If there's something out there that could teach me as much on a bicycle I'd love to do it......

If you live in a large town or city there are more than likely organiations that provide one to one training on road, on the routes that you use, or you could try reading and implementing John Franklins 'Cyclecraft', very easy to understand and you can teach yourself....

zeroseven

Petethebogmonster wrote:

John Frankilns 'Cyclecraft', very easy to understand and you can teach yourself....

I'll get a copy - cheers for that

Any motorcyclists on here who have never read Kieth Codes "A Twist of the Wrist" should get a copy tomorrow - what a book. You can then do the California Superbike School.... amazing tuition, Each 'stage' is a days tuition on track, no brakes allowed. ....Makes you assess and execute every corner needless to say I fell off on day 2..... but it was fantastic.

Counter steering Whoa! makes you feel like Rossi

dave_hill

If you keep your eyes and ears open it's amazing the little alleyways, back-streets and "cheeky" routes that become apparent in a town...

bails_89

i went out for a ride today,i was minding my own business when to guys from the forestry commission stopped me and started having ago,saying i should keep to the main footpaths which are marked. I understand about eroson and so on but they drive there bloody 4x4 landrover up the smallest paths and leave massive tyre prints leaves a real mess.im not doing anything wrong am i?! I slow down when i see walkers and their dogs.


its not going to stop me going anyway sorry about the rant.:)

thankyousam

bails_89 wrote:

i went out for a ride today,i was minding my own business when to guys from the forestry commission stopped me and started having ago,saying i should keep to the main footpaths which are marked. I understand about eroson and so on but they drive there bloody 4x4 landrover up the smallest paths and leave massive tyre prints leaves a real mess.im not doing anything wrong am i?! I slow down when i see walkers and their dogs.


its not going to stop me going anyway sorry about the rant.:)

I emailed the Forestry Commission about one of their sites around Cardiff. Here's part of their paraphrased response:

Obviously you are able to use forest roads and bridleways but footpaths are restricted to access on foot only.

FCW [Forestry Commission Wales] encourage users to visit formal moutain bike trails at Cwmcarn & Afan Argoed where trails are well signed and managed formally.

pemsey

bails_89 wrote:

i went out for a ride today,i was minding my own business when to guys from the forestry commission stopped me and started having ago,saying i should keep to the main footpaths which are marked. I understand about eroson and so on but they drive there bloody 4x4 landrover up the smallest paths and leave massive tyre prints leaves a real mess.im not doing anything wrong am i?! I slow down when i see walkers and their dogs.


its not going to stop me going anyway sorry about the rant.:)

Great attitude - twonks you like give the rest of us a bad image!
Access to Forestry Commission land is generally under permissive access rules (unless there are existing bridleways) which means they can let you in, but they decide where and when you can and cannot go. In most cases this means riding is restricted to surfaced tracks (fire roads) and waymarked MTB trails - it doesn't means you can ride anywhere you like on FC land - generally for very good conservation/safety reasons :!:

stumpyjon

The last people we want to upset are the forestry commission, of all public bodies they have done by far the most for moutain biking

dave_hill

bails_89 wrote:

I'm not doing anything wrong am i?!

Yes, of course you are. You're not on designated tracks or rights of way, therefore you're open to accusations of trespass.

"There goes one of those mountain bikers, they all trespass you know!"

Get the picture?

Notwithstanding the rights and wrongs of forestry employees driving their vehicles off the tracks, whether they're land rovers, forwarders, harvesters or whatever, two wrongs don't make a right. And after all they have the permission (and are under the direction) of their employer, the landowner. You do not have permission.

Stick to the rules and stop being a spanner.