Footpath Question

briggs28

Are you allowed on a footpath with a bike, if you are not riding it?

i.e Walking with it or carrying it?


thanks

FSR_XC

Yes.

You can't legally ride it, but there is nothing saying you can't push it.

stubs

I ride on a few local footpaths but if I see some walkers I always jump off and let them walk past. No one has complained yet.

Tranced

Where on earth does one find the "laws/ rules" etc. about riding on footpaths/ bridle trails etc. etc.?
How do you know it's a foot path?

Thus far I have been just riding anywhere and kinda assumed if someone didn't want me riding somewhere.... they'll be polite enough to tell me.

Never had to considder footpaths/ bridle trails/ roman roads etc before. Always just ridden anywhere we weren't being shot at.

briggs28

Well here is what happened to me.

I came to a track that said footpath on the sign, and there was also a picture that said no cycling. There was horses in the field and i could see the gate that lead to the lane i wanted to get to.

I walked my bike to the gate about 100m, when some woman came out and had a right go at me. I said i had seen the sign but walked my bike because i thought it was ok. She shouted and swore at me. But i kept my cool and just said, im sorry you have to shout and swear. i thought i was ok by walking my bike thriough.

I would like to know who was legally in the right. If its me i'll walk my bike through there till the day i die!

mcbazza

If there is no cycling, and you are off the bike & pushing, then in the eyes of the law you are not cycling.
You were in the right. And she was an idiot. And if she was swearing & abusive, it's possible that *she* was breaking the law.

Tailend Charlie

@briggs28

no question, if you are walking you are in the right and the old bag totally in the wrong. She's probably the sort that likes to choose which laws apply. "No Cycling" obviously applies to you even when you aren't, whereas I would bet that "The Hunt" breaking "No Foxhunting Laws" are to be applauded. (As the farmers and land-owners do round here).

Oz.Barnsley

Rode on some kerb last night, police passed me but didnt say anything so... maybe its the kinda thing traffic wardens would do you for

The Northern Monkey

I've ridden on the pavement since i was a kid. I still do occasionally. Especially if there's loads of traffic. However if the pavement has quite a few people on it i will get off and walk.

I've ridden past many a police car and quite a few bobbys on the beat, none of which have ever said anything.

I'm pretty sure that if the police saw you riding an empty pavement, they wouldn't be bothered, its more when you hit busy high streets that they'd be prone to stopping you.

The Northern Monkey

Oz.Barnsley wrote:

Rode on some kerb last night, police passed me but didnt say anything so... maybe its the kinda thing traffic wardens would do you for

don't traffic wardens just do tickets? nothing to do with traffic...

stev68

when i was about 11,i was riding through bracknell town centre on a sunday artnoon,total ghost town in them days nothing open.two coppers then appeared from behind a rotating advertising sign and stopped me! took my name and address.about 6 wks later another pig appeared at my home address and handed my dad a court summons! so off to court. me off school the old man day off work,got fined a whopping £5 quid! what a complete and utter waste of resources and time for a freeking fiver eh? :evil: still ride on em though! wont catch me with me trousers!

mcbazza

The 'no cycling on pavements' law is pointless. I used to be very much anti-cycling on pavements. But, then I remembered that I'm an adult, in full control of my actions, and how I have the ability to *not* run over and kill people when on my bike.

I like it the way they have it in Scotchlandshire - if you can walk on it, you can ride on it (pretty much, though, there are exceptions).

The Northern Monkey

stev68 wrote:

when i was about 11,i was riding through bracknell town centre on a sunday artnoon,total ghost town in them days nothing open.two coppers then appeared from behind a rotating advertising sign and stopped me! took my name and address.about 6 wks later another pig appeared at my home address and handed my dad a court summons! so off to court. me off school the old man day off work,got fined a whopping £5 quid! what a complete and utter waste of resources and time for a freeking fiver eh? :evil: still ride on em though! wont catch me with me trousers!

Thats lame.

I have to admit tho, London is OTT about everything!

Northwind

mcbazza wrote:

The 'no cycling on pavements' law is pointless. I used to be very much anti-cycling on pavements. But, then I remembered that I'm an adult, in full control of my actions, and how I have the ability to *not* run over and kill people when on my bike.

The argument of course is that not everyone's so responsible. Then, people who'd ride dangerously on pavements tend to just ignore the pavement laws anyway :roll: I'm a committed pavement cyclist, my commute is a mix of narrow fast roads, crazy short dual carriageways, and incredibly bad cycle/bus lanes so unless I'm hauling ass, I stay off the road. Bizarrely, right beside one of these terrible cycle lanes is a 3 metre wide tarmac pavement that has almost no pedestrian traffic, I just use that instead but it completely defeats me why the cycle lane doesn't run on that instead.

zeroseven

Common Sense

Usually works.

tlw1

zeroseven wrote:

Common Sense

Usually works.

Couldn't agree more, you will get the odd rant when you are being safe & the odd "nutter" who will cause you to rant but overall common sence "should" be the way forward

dave_hill

The law regarding the riding of bicycles on public rights of way goes back to the Wildlife & Countryside Act 1948 (which has since been updated and amended by various other acts of Parliament, the latest being the Countryside and Rights of Way Act 2001).

The bottom line is this -

You can ride on a public bridleway or Byway Open to All Traffic (BOAT), but you must give way to horses and pedestrians. On a BOAT, you have right of way over motor vehicles.

You cannot ride on a public footpath. If you do so, you leave yourself open to a charge of trespass.

However, (and here's the rub), contrary to popular belief, trespass (and constructive trespass) is NOT a criminal offence, it is a civil offence. What that means is that the charge cannot be brought by the police or the CPS, but must be brought by the land-owner. Trespass is massively difficult to prove as the burden lies with the land-owner having to show that you have damaged his property, AND THAT YOU DID IT WILFULLY.

That said, it's best to stay away from public footpaths altogether (especially in high-use areas, for example the National Parks). The only exception to this rule that I ever make is if it is an absolute, screaming-for-mummy emergency and I need to get help yesterday.

NOTE - these regulations ONLY apply in England and Wales. In Scotland, the rule is that if there is a road/trail/path, you can ride on it, but the land owner reserves the right to turf you off and you MUST abide by that decision. A similar set of regulations was being trialled in parts of Wales recently but how far it got is anyone's guess.

Tranced wrote:

Where on earth does one find the "laws/ rules" etc. about riding on footpaths/ bridle trails etc. etc.? How do you know it's a foot path?

Get a map. Learn. Wilful ignorance is no defence.

All Ordnance Survey maps show public rights of way and differentiate between the various types. However, they are no guarantee that the right of way exists. The only way to do this is to check the definitive maps held by your local authority planning department.

Tranced wrote:

Never had to considder footpaths/ bridle trails/ roman roads etc before.

Correction - you have chosen to ignore your responsibilities as a trail user. The sooner that you get on-side and the better for all of us. One day your actions could spoil it for everybody.

Sorry to be preachy but I don't intend to lose my right to ride simply because somebody couldn't be bothered to find out properly.

dave_hill

matthew h wrote:

Couldn't agree more, you will get the odd rant when you are being safe & the odd "nutter" who will cause you to rant but overall common sence "should" be the way forward

If only it was that easy! This is where the Scots have got it right - the sooner we adopt a similar system in England and Wales, the better!

briggs28

ok dave, but, what if you are not riding on the footpath?
Is that still classed as trespass?

zeroseven

And Towpaths.....? The canal near me designates the towpath as a cycle way.... but 40 miles later there is no further clarification..,,,are all towpaths legal?

mcbazza

zeroseven wrote:

And Towpaths.....? The canal near me designates the towpath as a cycle way.... but 40 miles later there is no further clarification..,,,are all towpaths legal?

The answer is not straight-forward.
For around the canals by me (Grand Union @ Watford) you need to be in possession of a permit - which, you download & print yourself. And, according to it's usage, it should be clearly displayed on the bike. Yeah, right. Mine is in my wallet. Stop me, and I'll show it. Never been asked for it once.

Most towpaths allow bikes. But, just to confuse, not all do. And those that don't, often don't display that they don't! You are forced to pre-check sections via a website. If no one elses posts it I'll go look for it later and post it.

There are a few rules as well.
No riding after dark - don't understand that one. Obviously, it's a risk as they are so dark, but, I have a bloody bright light.
No racing.
Pedestrians have right of way.
Give way to traffic nearest the water on the path.

edit: here come the links
download a permit
waterways code - which I'm pleased to see just advises against cycling on the towpaths after dark.
If you use the search facility at waterscape.com you should be able to pin-point any towpath restrictions on your route.

stumpyjon

Whether carrying / pushing a bike is in contravention of the law is a grey area and until a land owner actually takes a mountain biker to court it will remain so. They wording of the legislation allows a pedestrian to have a reasonable accompinianment sp?, what that is the law doesn't specify. It would be reasonable to assume that an umbrella is a reasonable accompinianment and probably a child's pushchair, whether a bike is depends on who you speak to, alot of biking groups say it is,the ramblers say it isn't.

One further bit of case law relates to a cyclist pushing a bike across a pedestrain crossing who got knocked down. The judge ruled in that case that the bloke was indeed a pedestrian, slightly different situation but possibly legal precedent.

Bottom line is:

- You can't legally ride on footpaths. - If you do you contravene civil law (trespass). - The land owner can sue (not prosecute, all those trepassers will be prosecuted signs are meaningless) for trepass. - For trepasss to be proved, the trepassers has to be shown to have caused damage to the land or in some way prevented the land owner from carrying out their lawful business. - If you are successfully sued damages are likely to be small, tyre tracks aren't usually considered serious damage (costs may be awarded against you that could be expensive). - Anyone who tells you definitively that pushing your bike is against the law doesn't know what they're talking about as it hasn't been decided in law yet. - I don't think they have any right to physically remove you, if they do that would probably be assault which is a criminal offence and much more serious. - Don't ride on fottpaths.

If you do a google search you'll find much more and better explained information. That's what I did after being accosted by a know it all farmer who claimed he'd heard it all before and we were all wrong so I thought I'd find out what the real situation is.

As Dave says the sooner we end up with something like the Scottish system the better. This governement doesn't like or understand mountain bikers. They're quite happy for everyone to ride to work to reduce congestion etc. but they're not interrested in supporting our hobby (despite the fact that commuting often developes from leisure cycling).

Tranced

Correction - you have chosen to ignore your responsibilities as a trail user. The sooner that you get on-side and the better for all of us. One day your actions could spoil it for everybody.

Not so. I'm quite willing to learn & understand. Hence me asking....

But believe me in deep dark Africa, I've never in 40 yrs come accross a NO Cyling path out in the country........

bulldicker

does anyone know if we are permitted to ride on the paths that are marked on OS maps with a single or double black dotted line? I can't seem to find out, there are quite allot of these paths and mountain bikers are using them (there was a photo on loughriigg in MBR a month ago) it would be useful to find out for sure

redvee

bulldicker wrote:

does anyone know if we are permitted to ride on the paths that are marked on OS maps with a single or double black dotted line? I can't seem to find out, there are quite allot of these paths and mountain bikers are using them (there was a photo on loughriigg in MBR a month ago) it would be useful to find out for sure

Do you means these markings?

dave_hill

bulldicker wrote:

does anyone know if we are permitted to ride on the paths that are marked on OS maps with a single or double black dotted line? I can't seem to find out, there are quite allot of these paths and mountain bikers are using them (there was a photo on loughriigg in MBR a month ago) it would be useful to find out for sure

Its debatable. They aren't public rights of way, neither are they permissive rights of way. If in doubt, don't.

Loughrigg is a very popular and busy area, so personally I'd steer clear of them. But if you're in the middle of nowhere I can't see there's any harm.

dave_hill

briggs28 wrote:

ok dave, but, what if you are not riding on the footpath?

There is no clarification in law. It is legal to push an invalid carriage or a permabulator (baby buggy to the uninitiated) on a public footpath, but there is no clause that says you can (or can't) push a bicycle.

I suppose of you carry your bike, if common sense is to prevail then there's no harm done. To the best of my knowledge no on ever got prosecuted for carrying a bag of shopping or a ladder on a public footpath, so why shouldn't you carry a bike?

dave_hill

Tranced wrote:

Not so. I'm quite willing to learn & understand. Hence me asking....

But believe me in deep dark Africa, I've never in 40 yrs come accross a NO Cyling path out in the country........

Ah well, you never mentioned Africa...

Personally, fear of lions would keep me well away from the African countryside so I have no issues here... :shock:

europeandy

dave_hill wrote:

NOTE - these regulations ONLY apply in England and Wales. In Scotland, the rule is that if there is a road/trail/path, you can ride on it, but the land owner reserves the right to turf you off and you MUST abide by that decision. A similar set of regulations was being trialled in parts of Wales recently but how far it got is anyone's guess..

My understanding of the Scottish Outdoor Access Code is that you have a legal right to take responsible access pretty much anywhere in Scotland, with a few exception such as curtelage (front gardens etc). This includes using non motorised transport such as bikes and canoes.

dave_hill

europeandy wrote:

My understanding of the Scottish Outdoor Access Code is that you have a legal right to take responsible access pretty much anywhere in Scotland, with a few exception such as curtelage (front gardens etc). This includes using non motorised transport such as bikes and canoes.

Hmm. Not sure about canoing the West Highland Way... :shock:

Belphegor

dave_hill wrote:

europeandy wrote:

My understanding of the Scottish Outdoor Access Code is that you have a legal right to take responsible access pretty much anywhere in Scotland, with a few exception such as curtelage (front gardens etc). This includes using non motorised transport such as bikes and canoes.

Hmm. Not sure about canoing the West Highland Way... :shock:

Well, you can do the Loch Lomand bit ok, and when I walked it you could have canoed down some fairly large sections of footpath!