out the back ,arrgh!

BigDunk

I've been on th bike since march and have done, wild wales challenge,a good few 100 milers,club runs every weekend and out on my own averaging 80-100miles per week.I have lost 2stone(now 14st)and have improved a lot when i look back to what i was at the start of the yesr ,but ,i am so frustrated at the ease the other members of the club seem to get up hills!The main problem is long not too steep climbs,i just seem to gradually get into a slow slog and have no second gear to get some speed up.On shortish steeper climbs i found if i kept in quite a high gear and went for it,I could get my lungs back on the decent and keep up with everyone.Anytips for keeping speed /cadence on these long ascents? winter bike is a kinesis racelight with chorus front 52/42 with 11/23 on the back which i know are quite high but still,70 year old men are giving me a shove, :oops: help :x

trig1

12/ 25 n a compact, n spin!

damage36

Keep the power on up the hill, push over the top of your pedal stroke, and keep losing weight.
Your gearing is quite high, are u able to keep the cadence up? You don't want to slog up long hills, you should be able to spin 70-80.

boybiker

As I said somewhere else hills are all down to how much you are prepared to hurt yourself, it helps to go up a couple of gears at the start of a hill so you can stand up set a rhythm and only go down a gear when you cannot maintain that rhythm. Don't think about the hill just try to concentrate on anything else such as counting out the revolutions of the peddles,.
Most people have problems on hills because they are scared of the fact that it hurts but you've got to learn to ignore it ,its not easy but it comes with practice.

LangerDan

Gearing and cadence are only part of it. Try to be at / near the front at the start of the climb. This has two advantages. Firstly, if at the front you may be able to dictate the climbing pace, rather than ride at someone elses. Secondly, if it is a reasonably sized group, you can fall through the group on the climb and you may not be out the back by the top.
Sometimes just focussing on the rear wheel / hub of the rider in front of you can help drown out other distractions - like pain, or the fact your lung has come out and is dangling uselessly on the top tube.

dennisn

Your don't say how many years you have been riding or if you're just starting, but if you're just starting out , so to speak, I wouldn't expect you to have the strength or
the climbing ability to stay with more experienced and stronger riders. It takes time to
build up ability like that. Your weight is also a major factor. The more you have to drag up the hills the harder it is(trust me, I know all about dragging too many pounds uphill). Gearing should also be appropriate to you abilities. I'm not a good climber by anyone's
standards but I do know that having more gears than you will need is always better than
trying to grind and struggle up a mountain in too high of a gear, for lack of a lower one.

Dennis Noward

genki

Give it a year or two. Some of the older guys in my club have been riding for 50 years. I'll whip them in a time triall but they're still very quick going up hills.

inseine

I think you're doing pretty well, especially since you've lost a fair bit of weight, but it's only by training you'll be able to get on par with the other guys. You're not light (unless you're very tall?) and though you have the strength on the shorter stuff you lack power at threshold I think. The classic 2x20 efforts and then some 5x5 mins at a pace that's just managable should help. Don't rush it though, plenty of time 'till next spring.

Not Another Hill

BigDunk wrote:

winter bike is a kinesis racelight with chorus front 52/42 with 11/23 on the back which i know are quite high but still,70 year old men are giving me a shove, :oops: help :x

I'm less than 11 stone and can climb reasonably well but I certainly wouldn't fancy it on the gearing you've got. You're going to be really grinding it on 42/23. Would recommend 50/34 plus 25/12 cassette. I ride with guys on 53/39s and don't lose out that much at the top end unless it's a long, straight descent.

BigDunk

Thanks for the tips,but,having the winter bike i'm pretty stuck with the gear i've got till i can get the good bike out in spring.Fair point about the amount of hurt you are willing to take,no no gain,i get it.Thing is though ,if i do go for broke i don't want to bonk in the middle of a 80miler What's a good way of seeing what my threshold is without being grazed on by sheep.High gear up a hill till i drop off, make a note of this point and try and beat it?20X20,5X5 Exuse my ignorance but whaa?Think i need some lone rider mental demon breaking head work too

Alex_Simmons/RST

BigDunk wrote:

The main problem is long not too steep climbs,i just seem to gradually get into a slow slog and have no second gear to get some speed up.

There is, for longer climbs of the nature you describe, really only one answer - to work on improving the power you can sustain for such efforts.

You can do that by:
- riding more
- riding harder
- riding more hills
- doing some specific interval work each week that stresses your aerobic engine.

The method used really depends on many factors.

As a relatively new rider though, usually the best course is to gradually increase the amount of riding you do and over time increase the effort level of some of those rides.

The bad news: Developing a really solid aerobic engine takes many years.
The good news: the biggest improvements come in hte first year of consistent and dedicated training.

mvogt46

Agree with Alex. You need to work on building your power at threshold. The amount of power you can build at threshold will be somewhat limited by your aerobic engine. In other words, you need to train your aerobic engine first before moving onto interval training.

The best way to train your aerobic engine is to ride your bike. Lots of medium intensity miles with some srength work thrown in towards the end of this period. Once you've done this for a while you can move onto interval training.

To find your threshold warm up for about 15 min and then do a 30 min time trial as hard as you can. Analyse the last 20 min of that time trial to get your average power (best) or heart rate (if you don't have a power meter). When you do your 2x20's, your power/heart rate should be at around this mark. Your interval training should take place where you want to improve the most. If that's climbing, train in the hills.

Good luck!

FitzyNC

BigDunk wrote:

Thanks for the tips,but,having the winter bike i'm pretty stuck with the gear i've got till i can get the good bike out in spring.Fair point about the amount of hurt you are willing to take,no no gain,i get it.Thing is though ,if i do go for broke i don't want to bonk in the middle of a 80miler What's a good way of seeing what my threshold is without being grazed on by sheep.High gear up a hill till i drop off, make a note of this point and try and beat it?20X20,5X5 Exuse my ignorance but whaa?Think i need some lone rider mental demon breaking head work too

Best thing I did was to pick out a local circuit on Storeton Road, Rest Hill, if you're a Wirral fella you may know it, Rest hill is short but very steep. I am 16 stsone and just over 6ft 3, so i know what you're talking about. I would see think about dropping the inner ring to maybe a 39. But getting back to training. keep it simple rest days are important and know your limits. if you've had a hard weekend of mileage use the monday as a rest day. But enjoy it don't let it bother you going out the back even PRO's do it, it proves where all human.

windbreaker

I have had similar problems. I’m 51 and now only a little bit heavier than I would like. My regular commuting keeps my base fitness up but I don’t manage to fit in the speed work that I really need.

My experience has been that many younger and fitter cyclists think the solution is just pushing yourself and hurting. This no longer worked for me after 45. Even if I get up the hill or whatever I am knackered and then drop off later. I pay particular attention to my eating and eat sooner than others. On regular runs I know when I need to eat to prepare for the tough clmb.

I can often get up at my own pace which may be only a fraction slower than others, but that fraction is important. Starting at the front, and not taking turns on the chain can help survive, and I may finish at the back but in the group.

I also keep an eye on my HRM and if I’m in the red too much I’ll back off in order to keep something in reserve. A short cut may enable to join the group again later.

The tips about gearing are useful, and spinning is much better. However you are committed to the current set up. What you could do is some strength work on your own. I have a steep hill on my return commute, and use it to measure general fitness, and sometimes I spin up at speed at other times I use if for slow cadence strength. However whatever I do it helps me get up hills later with the club. This is the winter and you will continue to lose weight. In the spring and summer you will also be wearing fewer clothes which will also help. Main message is focus on your improvement, praise yourself for your hard work and accomplishments, and give yourself a range of strategies to start to handle those hills. Some days will be easier than other. The glass is half full. It does take years to build up full fitness and economical style.


Well done.

Tom Butcher

Sounds to me like you are doing the right things - losing weight and going out with riders who challenge your current level of fitness. Gearing might help but it depends how steep these hills are - if they aren't that steep then there's no point in getting a 50*34 if you have to spin it at something silly to keep up with the group. Personally I'd up your mileage - 80-100 might be half of what most of the group are doing.

AntLockyer

Why can't you change your inner ring?

BigDunk

Thanks again for your knowledge and encouragement.Fitsy mentioned rest hill rd which i do know ta.My training route takes me from higher beb,up levers causeway back of rest hill to brimstage up to thornton hough,through willaston to burton and left to take in the training hill of denhall lane by ness gardens,which has hardly any traffic and is a test just long enough to try and sprint or grind big ring.Then into neston drop down to parkgate and up second long drag boathouse la to the chester high rd,right at glegg roundabout through heswall right onto storeton rd and home.Think its about 22/25 miles nice country lanes mostly.Where do you go,fitsy?
I have got hold of a 39 inner ring off the member i bought the bike off,how do i fit it?will it make a vast difference from a 42?
thanks again.

AntLockyer

Big difference yes. You need an allen key and a flat blade screw driver. If it doubt get your LBS to help or a club mate.