Max Average HR / Steady State training.
mclarent
Posts: 784
Posted this last night on the "road gear" forum in response to someone's question on HR. CTS use the following program as a test for max average heart rate, for calculating limits for what they "steady state" intervals
basically, take your max average heart rate (calc'd from one of the 2 intervals described below) and multiply by .92 (for under 35s) or .9 (for 35 and overs). This gives you your lower limit, you then add 3 beats to get your upper limit.
e.g. assuming 172 Max HR, 150 max average HR, age < 35 (made up numbers), "steady state" window would be 138 - 141, i.e. 80 - 82% of max HR.
My question is, would you think this is equivalent to a "high end endurance" window? i.e. 45-90mins "steady state" for endurance base building? How would this relate to target HR for TTs?
[intervals for calculating max avg HR, fyi]
Indoors:
Warm up, 8 min at max sustainable effort / 90 rpm cadence, 10 mins recovery, 8 min at max sustainable effort / 90 rpm cadence, cool down.
Outdoors:
as above, but substitute 2 x 3 mile for the eight minutes.
basically, take your max average heart rate (calc'd from one of the 2 intervals described below) and multiply by .92 (for under 35s) or .9 (for 35 and overs). This gives you your lower limit, you then add 3 beats to get your upper limit.
e.g. assuming 172 Max HR, 150 max average HR, age < 35 (made up numbers), "steady state" window would be 138 - 141, i.e. 80 - 82% of max HR.
My question is, would you think this is equivalent to a "high end endurance" window? i.e. 45-90mins "steady state" for endurance base building? How would this relate to target HR for TTs?
[intervals for calculating max avg HR, fyi]
Indoors:
Warm up, 8 min at max sustainable effort / 90 rpm cadence, 10 mins recovery, 8 min at max sustainable effort / 90 rpm cadence, cool down.
Outdoors:
as above, but substitute 2 x 3 mile for the eight minutes.
"And the Lord said unto Cain, 'where is Abel thy brother?' And he said, 'I know not: I dropped him on the climb up to the motorway bridge'."
- eccolafilosofiadelpedale
- eccolafilosofiadelpedale
0
Comments
-
Cripes, that's more complicated than power meter training. Not sure if I follow what you are asking.
I swear there is so much bunkum making HR zones more complicated than needs be....
If you want to know how it relates to your HR when doing a TT, then go do a TT.0 -
Not too complicated for me though and I 've done teh 'field test ' .
Using an average of a sub max test times a factor is a good way for the 'masses' to get started at a reasonable level. If you know your real HRM max and it turns out steady state is 80-82% of this and youre well trained it might be a bit low for high level endurance - try it and see!
I would guess that it is definitley too low for TTs I average nearly 93% of my max for a 10 km TT (which takes me 18 mins :oops: ).
Riding at 80% requires focus but is ok - riding at 93 is very hard for me - but then TTs should be!0 -
Whats steady state? Is that something along the lines of zone 2?Legs, lungs and lycra.
Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.0 -
To be honest on the CTS DVD's you can train via HR or Power, depends if you have the facility to know what power you put out.
The field test is to get a base line I guess, you will either get an average power or average HR out of it, and can base the training on this.
On the time trial DVD, I go for as hard as I can for the 5 min intervals, HR is probably slightly higher than what came out on the field test but if I can put out the same tempo for the full 5 mins, then I assume I am not pusshing too hard.0 -
Suprised to hear CTS methodology described as bunkum, but there you go... Quite happy to use a power meter - who's paying?!
I was wondering about the TT HR, having seen David Millar describing his TT process on the TdF this year, where he seemed to be focusing on HR.
I found an answer on the TT race pace: http://www.timetrialtraining.co.uk/S4TTElements.htm#3.%20Racing%20Pace. So, according to the author, Optimum Heart Rate (Race Pace / threshold) can be estimated at 92% of max HR.
He also says "power" training should be 85-90% of MHR, and working backwards leads me to suspect that the CTS "steadystate" should be equiv to 80 - 85% (give or take), putting it around high end endurance (aka Tempo) range.
Also, wanted to share this http://www.timetrialtraining.co.uk/S6MaxHeartRateTests.htm
and Alex's prior HR zone list http://www.bikeradar.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12592875 (which actually made the answer much clearer!)"And the Lord said unto Cain, 'where is Abel thy brother?' And he said, 'I know not: I dropped him on the climb up to the motorway bridge'."
- eccolafilosofiadelpedale0 -
Well I wasn't calling CTS bunkum. Just the proliferation of dozens of methods of developing HR zones that takes something relatively simple, then adds an unecessary layer of complexity, presumably to claim some form of marketing superiority.mclarent wrote:Suprised to hear CTS methodology described as bunkum, but there you go... Quite happy to use a power meter - who's paying?!
<snip>
and Alex's prior HR zone list http://www.bikeradar.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12592875 (which actually made the answer much clearer!)
I mean HR response is so variable, one would never match any one of the various zone schemas every day anyway.
Glad you linked that so one can see what I mean.0
