Campag vs Shimano - Betamax vs VHS?

don_don

If you ask me its like arguing the toss between M&S and Calvin Klein briefs.

As long as they keep your nuts from lolling about, who gives a sh*t?

nicklouse

Surf-Matt wrote:

On AlFas - they used to have character but now they are just another GM product wearing nice clothes.

An example is the engine in our car - A Vauxhall Astra (latest shape) 1.9CDTi 150bhp - the same engine is used in the Alfa and Saab - both Alfa and Saab don't handle any better (in fact Saabs handle worse), they aren't better made (Alfas still break down a lot, the Astra is suprisingly well made having been cack for years) but both cost a HUGE amount more. I tested the 147 GTA (3.2 litre 6 pot) when trying out cars and ended up getting a Golf R32 -the Alfa sounded nice, looked good but felt flimsey, handled poorly and I knew it would break down. I notice Alfas being driven very aggressively a lot - I wonder why?!

thats the Fiat engine.

Alfa is still Fiat owned.
But GM powertrain do supply engines to other car makers the same as they buy in engines from other makers.

don_don

I bet you wish you'd never asked, eh linsen?? :roll:

linsen

Didn't expect it to get onto the p*rn discussion quite so quickly......

don_don

Porn, bikes and cars...

We men are so predictable :roll:

nicklouse

don_don wrote:

Porn, bikes and cars...

We men are so predictable :roll:

beer, red wine and Single Malts.

linsen

... and fixing things

Talking about it, that is....

Surf-Matt

nicklouse wrote:

Surf-Matt wrote:

On AlFas - they used to have character but now they are just another GM product wearing nice clothes.

An example is the engine in our car - A Vauxhall Astra (latest shape) 1.9CDTi 150bhp - the same engine is used in the Alfa and Saab - both Alfa and Saab don't handle any better (in fact Saabs handle worse), they aren't better made (Alfas still break down a lot, the Astra is suprisingly well made having been cack for years) but both cost a HUGE amount more. I tested the 147 GTA (3.2 litre 6 pot) when trying out cars and ended up getting a Golf R32 -the Alfa sounded nice, looked good but felt flimsey, handled poorly and I knew it would break down. I notice Alfas being driven very aggressively a lot - I wonder why?!

thats the Fiat engine.

Alfa is still Fiat owned.
But GM powertrain do supply engines to other car makers the same as they buy in engines from other makers.

Indeed - Saab, Alfa and Vauxhall as use exactly the same Fiat sourced engine. It's a great unit but you pay a LOT more for Saab or Alfa - and they both kick out less torque than the Vx version too! And are slower.

nicklouse

Erm i will beg to differer on that.

Surf-Matt

Nicklouse - Facts needed? Any backing to that comment?!

0-62 mph in seconds, all factory figures crossed checked with proper tests.

Vx Astra 1.9CDTi 150 PS - hatch 8.3, estate 8.6
Saab 9-3 1.9TiD (150PS) - hatch (sort of) - 9.0 seconds, 9.7 in the "estate"
Alfa 159 1.9 JDTM (150PS) - 9.2 saloon, 9.4s estate.
Alfa 147 1.9JDTM 16v (5 dr) - 8.8 seconds.

All the same basic engine. That's not a small difference either - the Astra is considerably quicker. In fact the hatch is heading for hot hatch performance, the estate is definitely pokey. All the others are just fairly rapid (ish). But all are cack compared to the Evo FQ360 I tested recently - 0-60 in 3.9s!! Last car I had managed it in 6.2 and even that felt very quick.

So which part of those figures makes the Vx Astra version slower?!! :?: :?:

Oh and I like SRAM and Shimano fairly equally...

always_tyred

Surf-Matt wrote:

Nicklouse - Facts needed? Any backing to that comment?!

0-62 mph in seconds, all factory figures crossed checked with proper tests.

Vx Astra 1.9CDTi 150 PS - hatch 8.3, estate 8.6
Saab 9-3 1.9TiD (150PS) - hatch (sort of) - 9.0 seconds, 9.7 in the "estate"
Alfa 159 1.9 JDTM (150PS) - 9.2 saloon, 9.4s estate.
Alfa 147 1.9JDTM 16v (5 dr) - 8.8 seconds.

All the same basic engine. That's not a small difference either - the Astra is considerably quicker. In fact the hatch is heading for hot hatch performance, the estate is definitely pokey. All the others are just fairly rapid (ish). But all are cack compared to the Evo FQ360 I tested recently - 0-60 in 3.9s!! Last car I had managed it in 6.2 and even that felt very quick.

So which part of those figures makes the Vx Astra version slower?!! :?: :?:

Oh and I like SRAM and Shimano fairly equally...

How much do each of the cars weight?

nicklouse

all the same out put. and which is the entry level cars?

Vx/Opel base brand. Alfa/Saab premium brands

bet the Fiat is faster.

Surf-Matt

And the difference in a "premium" brand? Apart from the absolutely ridiculous badge? No better spec, build, handling, etc, etc.

I'm sorry but after years of driving and testing cars, I am a million miles away from even thinking about badges. I buy cars judged on how they perform - same as anything.
The Astra is the only one of the three that was actually made lighter (by a fair margin) than it's predecessor. Plus Lotus lent a hand with the chassis engineering.

If someone pays an extra £4-5k for a car that is slower, less reliable, has the same engine and handles worse than what we bought, I just don't get it... My wife's uncle has the 9-3 version of ours (same engine) - it's slower, doesn't handle any better and has less room. It also cost a lot lot more.

Prestige brands of the same car (e.g. Audi vs Seat) can make sense when the reliability and features are actually better but not when there's no difference but a badge and different looks.

And Fiat versions aren't faster... Nearest you can get is the Bravo 1.9 16v mulitjuet (same engine again) 150 - 0-60 in 9 seconds...

I'm surprised at you Nicklouse - I honestly thought you had more intelligence!