Road bike, TT bike, Cyclocross bike

13

Comments

  • ansbaradigeidfran
    ansbaradigeidfran Posts: 526
    linsen wrote:
    Jen J wrote:
    That's the main thing that I found with women specific bike frames. Unfortunately I was 'blessed' with disproportionately short legs, so am better suited to a mens frame. :cry: .
    That makes two of us, Jen :(
    I'd better stay clear of you then: my mum always told me that women would kill for my legs. :shock:

    P.S. Why do clothing manufacturers insist that tall men can't be skinny?
  • linsen
    linsen Posts: 1,959
    ansbaradigeidfran wrote:
    linsen wrote:
    Jen J wrote:
    That's the main thing that I found with women specific bike frames. Unfortunately I was 'blessed' with disproportionately short legs, so am better suited to a mens frame. :cry: .
    That makes two of us, Jen :(
    I'd better stay clear of you then: my mum always told me that women would kill for my legs. :shock:

    P.S. Why do clothing manufacturers insist that tall men can't be skinny?

    Best had. I'm not interested in any "my legs are too thin" comments :wink:
    Emerging from under a big black cloud. All help welcome
  • ansbaradigeidfran
    ansbaradigeidfran Posts: 526
    Actually, I wouldn't describe my legs as skinny: my thighs are the only bit of me that have any meat on it!

    My main gripe is that when I ask in menswear department for 27/28" waist trousers, I tend to be referred to the kidswear department (and they don't do 36" inseams there). By contrast, shops such as Next have "tall" departments for women, with sizes (from what I see) catering for slim people as well as regular and kingsize.

    I'm considering taking shops like High and Mighty to court over false advertising: "For big or tall men" should read "For big and tall men", as they don't cater to people with waists narrower than 34". At least Wrangler make one style of jeans in 27x36 dimensions, which comes in two colours, and some eBay sellers in the US offer to ship over here once in a while!

    ARGH!</rant>
  • daver1
    daver1 Posts: 78
    There are a few shops that have fitting systems. They will charge you $50-$100 (that's pounds I don't have a pound sign on this keyboard!) but take that off the price off the bike if you get it from them. In my experience it's worth it when getting a roadbike if you don't have the experience of what fits you well already. Just beware that however someone fits you they will fit you to a standard position - you may be more comfortable in slightly different position but it should be close enough to adjust with a change of stem or slight shift of the saddle. Above $1,000 you are staring to get dimishing returns from a VFM point of view.
  • lost_in_thought
    lost_in_thought Posts: 10,563
    Littigator wrote:
    Not sure but give them a bell and ask maybe. I've spoken to a lot of guys who swear by them.

    Well I rang them just now, and they were a little bit like the mechanic who currently has my estate car... very friendly and helpful but certainly pushing me towards their preferred option.

    This is of course that I get one of their bikes as it's the only way to ensure a perfect fit rather than a good fit. This is understandable and no doubt true.

    However, they will of course give me my geometry set-up to go and look for an (inferior) bike which fits me (badly) much as they would rather I went with theirs.

    Of course they're bound to say that, I can't blame them, and it seems like a very good plan if you're strong willed enough to not get sucked in to the sales pitch! Which I think I am... :)

    I'll book myself in once I've got my travel schedule sorted.
    FCN 7/1
    Viner Maxima, Tifosi CK7, Giant Bowery, Old commuter.
  • always_tyred
    always_tyred Posts: 4,965
    Look, it really should be possible to get a good fit on any off the shelf bike these days. And mosst decent shops have means of getting the correct frame for you. For example, if you are comfortable on the Giant, take the Giant with you.

    So, choose the bike you want, find out who sells it and then they really should be able to find out what fits you.

    Sometimes the figures don't add up either, so there's no harm in getting some poor grunt to bring up a size either side for you to try in the shop either. Think of it in the same way as purchasing shoes.

    Really, think you are in danger of being given rolls royce advice whilst purchasing a mazda (possibly an Audi)
  • lost_in_thought
    lost_in_thought Posts: 10,563
    Always Tyred wrote:
    Look, it really should be possible to get a good fit on any off the shelf bike these days. And mosst decent shops have means of getting the correct frame for you. For example, if you are comfortable on the Giant, take the Giant with you.

    So, choose the bike you want, find out who sells it and then they really should be able to find out what fits you.

    Sometimes the figures don't add up either, so there's no harm in getting some poor grunt to bring up a size either side for you to try in the shop either. Think of it in the same way as purchasing shoes.

    Really, think you are in danger of being given rolls royce advice whilst purchasing a mazda (possibly an Audi)

    Hmmmm, interesting, I hadn't looked at it that way round... I really don't mind what bike it is, not a label junkie or anything, as long as it fits me and allows me to do that I want to do with it.

    I have struggled a bit to find a bike that I feel really fits me well, hence the earlier rantings about geometry and saddle position... and hence the thinking that a professional fit might eb the way forward.

    I figure that if I'm going to spend the money I don't want to get a bike that doesn't fit...
    FCN 7/1
    Viner Maxima, Tifosi CK7, Giant Bowery, Old commuter.
  • always_tyred
    always_tyred Posts: 4,965
    So what's wrong with your position on the Giant?

    I'm coming from the perspective that (a) even the pros ride off the shelf frames these days (the great majority of them) and stem/seat position is fine tuning (b) a good bike shop will have a fitting jig, will take a look at the bikes you have, etc. and that if they don't its not the sort of shop you would want to be giving a 4 figure sum to anyway (you are, after all, going to want to take the bike back for tune ups etc.... just look at the recent struggles people are having with Evans....)
  • lost_in_thought
    lost_in_thought Posts: 10,563
    Always Tyred wrote:
    So what's wrong with your position on the Giant?

    This is the thing - I'm not sure exactly. I think it's better than the previous one due to the compact frame, but while on the old one I felt the handlebars were too far forward, on this one I feel like I have to bend my head up too far to see where I'm going although on a horizontal plane the bars are well-positioned.

    Maybe the handlebars are too low down in relation to the saddle, due to the smaller frame, or something. I really don't know.

    Told you I was a novice. :oops:

    Don't want to make the same mistake on a pricier machine!

    EDIT: Oh, and for the record, I am not planning on getting a hand-made bespoke bike, I just want to find an off-the-shelf one with the right set-up for me. In no rush, so no harm in some research!
    FCN 7/1
    Viner Maxima, Tifosi CK7, Giant Bowery, Old commuter.
  • Jen J
    Jen J Posts: 1,054
    lost_in_thought wrote:
    Maybe the handlebars are too low down in relation to the saddle, due to the smaller frame, or something. I really don't know.

    I really know nothing about bikes, but when I got my road bike I felt that the bars were too low (probbaly was just that I wasn't used to it), and so they turned the stem so that it tilted slightly upwards and effectively raised it by an inch or so.

    On my Bowery, the handelbars are 'as is' and in comparison to the road bike I do feel like I'm tipping forwards a bit - may be it's worth you turning the stem around on yours to see if that's more comfortable?
    Commuting: Giant Bowery 08
    Winter Hack: Triandrun Vento 3
    Madone

    It's all about me...
  • always_tyred
    always_tyred Posts: 4,965
    lost_in_thought wrote:
    Always Tyred wrote:
    So what's wrong with your position on the Giant?

    This is the thing - I'm not sure exactly. I think it's better than the previous one due to the compact frame, but while on the old one I felt the handlebars were too far forward, on this one I feel like I have to bend my head up too far to see where I'm going although on a horizontal plane the bars are well-positioned.

    Maybe the handlebars are too low down in relation to the saddle, due to the smaller frame, or something. I really don't know.

    Told you I was a novice. :oops:

    Don't want to make the same mistake on a pricier machine!

    EDIT: Oh, and for the record, I am not planning on getting a hand-made bespoke bike, I just want to find an off-the-shelf one with the right set-up for me. In no rush, so no harm in some research!

    The compact frame shouldn't really be an issue - the frame is simply something that joins together the pedals, bars and seat.

    It sounds as though the drop from seat to bars is too much at the moment. Without wishing to cause Don_Don too much excitement, you may have long legs in comparison to your body.

    "My lord, you have a WOMAN'S legs." (Blackadder.... you are probably too young)

    Don't know how confident you are with a multi-tool, but try flipping your stem around. It will look odd, but is an excersise in experimenting with positions. (Don_Don again) Alternatively, if there are spacers above your stem, take them off and put them underneath, or request that a kindly friend at the Morpeth Arms show you how.
  • il_principe
    il_principe Posts: 9,155
    redddraggon wrote:
    jashburnham wrote:
    Lit - get a Wilier Mortirolo. It's 100% Italian carbon fibre loveliness and a fab bike. Can be had for £1500.

    Apart from it's made in Taiwan.......

    Well i didn't say it was 100% made in Italy! Most CF bikes are made in Taiwan these days, nowt wrong with that in my mind, it's the design that's key and I'm not going to get snobbish about where its made. My Pinarello is made from aerospace grade Japanese carbon fibre from a company that are the exclusive supplier of composites for the Airbus 380 and Boeing 787 Dreamliner... I kinda like the combo of Pinarello's design and heritage mixed with Japanese high tech know how...
  • lost_in_thought
    lost_in_thought Posts: 10,563
    Always Tyred wrote:
    It sounds as though the drop from seat to bars is too much at the moment. Without wishing to cause Don_Don too much excitement, you may have long legs in comparison to your body.

    "My lord, you have a WOMAN'S legs." (Blackadder.... you are probably too young)

    Don't know how confident you are with a multi-tool, but try flipping your stem around. It will look odd, but is an excersise in experimenting with positions. (Don_Don again) Alternatively, if there are spacers above your stem, take them off and put them underneath, or request that a kindly friend at the Morpeth Arms show you how.

    Not too young for blackadder... And yes, I am built with the short torso/long leg set-up which is apparently typical for us girls.

    I already flipped the stem, felt it brought the bars too close horizontally having ridden it for a few days like that, and flipped it back. Preferred it the 'right' way up.

    Didn't notice any spacers above the stem... doesn't mean there aren't any...

    And Jashburnham - I will add the Wilier to the list of bikes-to-try. Nothing wrong with being made in Taiwan. :)
    FCN 7/1
    Viner Maxima, Tifosi CK7, Giant Bowery, Old commuter.
  • il_principe
    il_principe Posts: 9,155
    It's a lovely bike, I used to have one and can strongly recommend them:

    538690733_cc178dc9d3.jpg

    And yes yes I know the brakes are loosened - I know one of the resident pedants will point that out if I don't.
  • don_don
    don_don Posts: 1,007
    It will look odd, but is an excersise in experimenting with positions. (Don_Don again)
    :shock: :shock:

    I wonder if you are riding slightly too small a frame for your long :oops: legs, leaving you with lots of seatpost exposed and the bars too low? I seem to recall you saying you get a sore neck occasionally, from having to 'look up' too much?

    It sounds like you really would benefit from a proper fitting, especially if you are slightly outside the 'average' fit that most manufacturers cater for. Maybe you'ld benefit from a womens' specific frame design? How do you get on with your other road bike? That might be a place to start if you can find out what the frame measurements are.

    The only other thing I would suggest is trying to find a bike shop with a knowledgable female member of staff. You might get a more empathic ear, although I'm sure people like Condor are very professional all the same.
  • biondino
    biondino Posts: 5,990
    I kinda like the combo of Pinarello's design and heritage mixed with Japanese high tech know how...

    Cool - Dura-Ace is a lot cheaper than Super Record :)
    My Focus / My Bob Jackson
    Blog (incl. bikes)
  • il_principe
    il_principe Posts: 9,155
    biondino wrote:
    I kinda like the combo of Pinarello's design and heritage mixed with Japanese high tech know how...

    Cool - Dura-Ace is a lot cheaper than Super Record :)

    Yep but it misses out on all that lovely Italianess! (Shimano on an Italian bike, mutter mutter) and anyway it's only 10 speed so there! Besides I thought you were Italian - Traitor! :D

    Nothing wrong with Shimano of course, I have both Ultegra and Chorus but for me Chorus has the edge.
  • biondino
    biondino Posts: 5,990
    I've hated the Campy components I've used, but I've not spent enough time either getting used to them or fettling them so they perform better. Dura-Ace makes me all tingly, though.
    My Focus / My Bob Jackson
    Blog (incl. bikes)
  • redddraggon
    redddraggon Posts: 10,862
    jashburnham wrote:
    Nothing wrong with Shimano of course,

    There's loads wrong.......I haven't worked out what people see in it yet.
    I like bikes...

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  • greg66_tri_v2.0
    greg66_tri_v2.0 Posts: 7,172
    edited October 2008
    lost_in_thought wrote:
    This is of course that I get one of their bikes as it's the only way to ensure a perfect fit rather than a good fit. This is understandable and no doubt true.

    Heheheh. What a surprise.

    I wouldn't rush to the conclusion that it's true though. Sit yourself down, and let me explain.

    There is no single perfect bike fit. There. I've said it.

    When an experienced fitter fits you, you're being given a fit which is slanted by their personal preferences/philosophy/prejudices/belief system - whatever you want to call it. The point is that is it not a science. There is no manual for bike fitting that any two people can follow and get the same result.

    A good example of this is the bike fit tool on Competitive Cyclist's website. It gives you a choice of three styles of fit.

    Now, what you're not going to know is which set of preferences suit you. By which I mean that your physical shape can be accommodated to any fitting style, but who knows whether that is the right style for you?

    You might: for example, do you prefer to mash (low cadence) or spin (high). That can dictate high saddle or low. Do you like a lot of saddle to bars drop, or do you prefer a more upright position? Take a look at the fitting styles on CC - they're described - and see whether any of them gets a yes/no/maybe reaction. Might also be useful to read the first article here http://www.cervelo.com/content.aspx?t=C ... hitePapers as a counterpoint to Cyclefit's "Madam will be needing a bespoke frame" approach.
    lost_in_thought wrote:
    And yes, I am built with the short torso/long leg set-up which is apparently typical for us girls.

    Not sure who told you that, LiTs. I think that set up is pretty atypical for women.

    BTW, you've got PM.
    Swim. Bike. Run. Yeah. That's what I used to do.

    Bike 1
    Bike 2-A
  • greg66_tri_v2.0
    greg66_tri_v2.0 Posts: 7,172
    jashburnham wrote:
    It's a lovely bike, I used to have one and can strongly recommend them:

    538690733_cc178dc9d3.jpg

    And yes yes I know the brakes are loosened - I know one of the resident pedants will point that out if I don't.

    And you've heinously crossed the chain... :wink:
    Swim. Bike. Run. Yeah. That's what I used to do.

    Bike 1
    Bike 2-A
  • always_tyred
    always_tyred Posts: 4,965
    Greg66 wrote:
    jashburnham wrote:
    It's a lovely bike, I used to have one and can strongly recommend them:

    538690733_cc178dc9d3.jpg

    And yes yes I know the brakes are loosened - I know one of the resident pedants will point that out if I don't.

    And you've heinously crossed the chain... :wink:

    Red wheels are just SO last year.
  • Coriander
    Coriander Posts: 1,326
    lost_in_thought wrote:

    I'm just over 5'8", and rather short in the torso. This Cervelo soloist seems like an interesting option... but I can't find a review which tells me about this seatpost...

    Geometry is where I'm struggling a little at the minute, conflicting reports on womens' geometry abound, the only concrete thing I can find is that women are longer of leg and shorter of torso compared to men.

    Professional fitting seems to be calling me...

    Hi L-i-T,

    I'm about 5'7", but unlike you, you lucky thing, I am long of torso and very short of leg. When buying my bike last year I couldn't get along with any of the women's bikes as the sizing was made to accommodate shorter torsoes and longer legs. So, it might be that a woman's bike would suit you well. And the advantage is that things like the angle and space between the brake levers and the drops would be resized to take account of women having smaller hands (as we discussed in the past, this can be a problem).
  • chriskempton
    chriskempton Posts: 1,245
    If I were you, LiT, I'd go to a big megastore bike shop like <gritted teeth> Evans. They'll have a big range women's specific bikes like <gritted teeth again> Trek Madones, Spesh Whatever, Scott Contessa etc.

    Have a sit on a few and see what you like, report back on here and provoke another 6 pages of debate, then buy the one you preferred in the first place (possibly after a test ride).
  • biondino
    biondino Posts: 5,990
    It's true, it makes a lot of sense going somewhere with the largest number of potentially appropriate bikes. /gritted teeth
    My Focus / My Bob Jackson
    Blog (incl. bikes)
  • greg66_tri_v2.0
    greg66_tri_v2.0 Posts: 7,172
    Does anyone else think that women-specific road bikes are a bit of a crappy gimmick? They remind me of women's skis. Watered down versions of men's skis, made lighter so the instructor can carry them and his own, and covered in white and pink decals.

    Maybe I haven't looked hard enough, but I don't think I've ever seen a clear exposition from a manufacturer about what's different between its women-specific frame and the corresponding men's frame, why, and for what purpose. OTOH, there's no shortage of marketing guff that neatly avoids addressing these questions.
    Swim. Bike. Run. Yeah. That's what I used to do.

    Bike 1
    Bike 2-A
  • biondino
    biondino Posts: 5,990
    I think you're talking out of your arse, Greg! Unless you're convinced that we could all be riding any shape of bike with equal comfort, then of course it matters. Women are a different shape, full stop - presumable there's a venn diagram that could be drawn with men and women and a crossover section, but for the women who don't fit in the crossover then clearly they'll be wanting different things from their bikes. I assume - never having ridden one - that manufacturers understand what these things are and cater for them.

    At the next Morpeth meetup let's take any girls we have and match them to the nearest-sized bloke, then take a whole host of intimate measurements. This presumably will prove the point, right?
    My Focus / My Bob Jackson
    Blog (incl. bikes)
  • always_tyred
    always_tyred Posts: 4,965
    Greg66 wrote:
    Does anyone else think that women-specific road bikes are a bit of a crappy gimmick? They remind me of women's skis. Watered down versions of men's skis, made lighter so the instructor can carry them and his own, and covered in white and pink decals.

    Maybe I haven't looked hard enough, but I don't think I've ever seen a clear exposition from a manufacturer about what's different between its women-specific frame and the corresponding men's frame, why, and for what purpose. OTOH, there's no shortage of marketing guff that neatly avoids addressing these questions.

    So cynical.

    It would be wrong to suggest that women specific bike frames are simply pastel coloured versions of men's frames, with a shorter top tube that might equally have been acieved by use of a 90mm rather than a 110mm stem, but for which a price premium could not then be charged, and with a great fat gel saddle bolted on which will have to be removed almost immediately.

    Any more of that sort of chat and I'll launch a defamation action. :shock:
  • chriskempton
    chriskempton Posts: 1,245
    They have different geometry don't they - proportionally shorter top tubes (for longer leg/shorter torso) and normally a more relaxed head angle to avoid pedal overlap.

    And lots of pink bits.
  • greg66_tri_v2.0
    greg66_tri_v2.0 Posts: 7,172
    biondino wrote:
    Women are a different shape, full stop - presumable there's a venn diagram that could be drawn with men and women and a crossover section, but for the women who don't fit in the crossover then clearly they'll be wanting different things from their bikes. I assume - never having ridden one - that manufacturers understand what these things are and cater for them.

    I get that: I've seen magazines and tinternet things that leave me in doubt that they're a different shape. Men, women, venn diagram. You're a dirty minded boy. We all know what bits would be in the so-called "crossover" section, eh, eh...

    All I said was that I've not seen anything that explains to me what the makers do, why and to what end in a women-specific frameset. I'm open to being persuaded. I just haven't seen the evidence. I wonder how many female pros ride women specific frames.
    biondino wrote:
    At the next Morpeth meetup let's take any girls we have and match them to the nearest-sized bloke, then take a whole host of intimate measurements. This presumably will prove the point, right?

    I doubt that will prove much. But it's an excellent idea nonetheless. I'll bring the tape measure. :twisted:
    Swim. Bike. Run. Yeah. That's what I used to do.

    Bike 1
    Bike 2-A

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