Road bike, TT bike, Cyclocross bike

lost_in_thought

OK, so...

I am/have been the proud owner of some proper rubbish bikes.

However, in a departure from the norm, I am now looking at getting myself a nice bike for riding on the road, and possibly doing some racing on if I ever get fast enough.

Basically I am fed up of my downtube shifters... :oops: and putting integrated brake/gear systems on an £84 bike seems a little silly...

So, I have some questions for you:

1. What is the difference between a Road bike, a TT bike and a cyclocross bike? If anyone says 'the name' I will come round there and slap you silly.

2. Carbon frame/forks - worth the extra money?

3. Will most companies/shops set up the gearing how you want it on a road bike? Or is it a bit 'you get what's on it'?

4. Where is a good shop in central/west london/similar which will have a good assortment of bikes in stock in various sizes so I can test lots out and find what suits?

5. At what point does adding ££ to the cost lead to such a small difference in perceptible quality that you're overspending? Or, what's a sensible budget to set myself?

6. What's the deal with these deep rim wheels? Why bother with them?

Thanks all!

nicklouse

1. What is the difference between a Road bike, a TT bike and a cyclocross bike? If anyone says 'the name' I will come round there and slap you silly. Very Happy

the name.

:oops:

lost_in_thought

nicklouse wrote:

1. What is the difference between a Road bike, a TT bike and a cyclocross bike? If anyone says 'the name' I will come round there and slap you silly.

the name.

:oops:

*SLAP*

So saw that one coming... :roll: [/b]

Jen J

A TT/tri bike has handlebars in the style of tri bars, with gear shifters on the ends. I am trying desperately hard not to buy one.

I think a road bike would pretty much be like a geared Bowery - mine isn't much different, apart from being quicker.

I think cross bikes are a bit of a compromise as they are intended as fast off-road bikes that can be carried over obstacles, and seem to be a bit of jack of all trades, master of none. That said I am still fighting the urge to buy one.

But I am a neophyte, and all of the above may be wrong

Greg T

Ripped off from:


http://www.edinburghbicycle.com/comms/srv.a4d?f_pg=site_info/bike-and-cycling-faqs.htm&f_cardinal=10#triathlon

Road racing, time trial and triathalon bikes have each evolved to perform a specific function. All share many similar traits and differences are quite subtle.







A: Tri bars. Usually on time trial and triathalon bikes
B: Wheels. A full disc wheel is common on the rear of time trial bikes. Triathalon bikes often favour deep section rims or aero wheels (as seen above).
C: Seat Tube angle - greater on time trial and triathlon bikes giving a steeper seat tube. More power but less comfort.
Fork Rake. This distance influences how the bike handles. The smaller the distance the more nippy the bike will be. The longer the distance the more stable and relaxed the bike will be.
E: Headtube angle - steeper on time trial and triathlon bikes.

The road racing bike is the 'Jack of all trades'. The head-tube and seat-tube angles are comparatively shallow, seating the rider slightly back to make the bike more comfortable on longer rides. The wheels are generally 32 or 36 spoked with standard round or square-section rims. The bike usually comes with a minimum of 14 gears employing a wider gear ratio to cover varying terrain. Two sets of braze-ons for water bottles is standard.

The time trial bike is at the other end of the racing spectrum. The angles, especially the seat angle, are much steeper putting the rider in a more forward and powerful position. As time trials are usually raced over 10-50 mile distances with the sole emphasis on speed, comfort is largely sacrificed. The rear wheel is often a disc and the front may be smaller with a deep rim for aerodynamics. Weight is a major issue - components are kept to a minimum and are often made from titanium or carbon fibre. Gears are often in short supply, sometimes only 6. and in very close ratios. The bike often comes with Tri bars for aerodynamics but luxuries such as water bottle cages are often sacrificed.

The triathalon bike: The bike stage of a triathlon is usually longer than most time trials so more concessions are made for comfort. Triathalon bars, disc wheels and aero frame make the bicycle as efficiently aerodynamic as possible to spare the athlete some effort. Similarly, a wider range of gears helps you over more varied terrain. Extra bottle cages encourage the fluid replacement demanded by endurance sports. An exceptionally steep seat tube angle (up to 77/78° against the road bike 73/74° norm) positions you further forward. This does 2 good things. It puts you ‘on top of the cranks’ (like you are when you ride out the saddle), so you can pack more power into every pedal stroke, and it makes the aero bars easier to reach.

lost_in_thought

Has anyone ridden a Triathlon bike? Whenever setting up my own bikes I prefer for the saddle to be over the cranks as much as possible - why would this affect the comfort?

Any ideas on the rest ??

I am so clueless about all this... :oops:

Jen J

From a numpty/non-technical point of view...

2. Carbon frame/forks - worth the extra money?

Carbon frame definitely. Forks if you can afford them

3. Will most companies/shops set up the gearing how you want it on a road bike? Or is it a bit 'you get what's on it'?

Depends how much you're paying and how friendly the shop is. If it's a fairly cheap off teh shelf bike, they probably wouldn't even swap the pedals for you, but If it's a custom built bike (as mine was from Triandrun), I'm sure you could request certain set ups.

4. Where is a good shop in central/west london/similar which will have a good assortment of bikes in stock in various sizes so I can test lots out and find what suits?

I used triandrun who had a small selection, and Compton Cycles in Catford which was a good shop but not exactly West London.

5. At what point does adding ££ to the cost lead to such a small difference in perceptible quality that you're overspending? Or, what's a sensible budget to set myself?

I have no idea really, but my general understanding for a road bike, say, is up to around £1200 you get what you pay for, then you get less return the more you go over that.

6. What's the deal with these deep rim wheels? Why bother with them?

That sounds like a technical question...

chriskempton

What kind of racing might you do?

Basically a road bike is like what you've currently got but better :? and you can spend what you want. A tri/TT bike (they're effectively the same thing) will have a very short head tube for a low aero position which will be uncomfortable unless you're a pretty seasoned rider, proper tri bars and maybe some aero tubing etc. You'd need to be spending £1k upwards (see Planet X Stealth Carbon) for one of these.

As for having your saddle over the cranks, a TT bike probably takes it even further over than you would like....

Road bikes are more forgiving and you can of course ride them everywhere. Tri/tt bikes are not something you want to be riding every day, cos the position is demanding on your back, and the handling is not so good.

If it's road racing, you need a road bike. The tri bars on a tri bike are illegal in road races and the handling is crucial.

If it's TT racing, you could use a road bike or a tri/TT bike . The tri/TT bike would probably be ideal (a bit faster once you're a good tester) but not much in it, as long as you put some clip on aero bars on the road bike.

So the road bike would be a better buy for you now really. If you get into racing and are going to do lots of TTs or Tris then you could look at a TT bike then.

Finbar Saunders

Jen J wrote:

2. Carbon frame/forks - worth the extra money?

Carbon frame definitely. Forks if you can afford them

I would say the opposite....carbon forks definitely, unless you are looking at the very low end of the quality/budget scale. Frame, nice if you can afford it but certainly not necessary.

GEPC

I think some of the other posts have covered part of your quesions.

On the different types of bikes.

Road bike as the name suggests is for riding/racing on the road. When you watch the tour de france they are riding road bikes (admitedly very top end ones)

The only time when you are watching the tour de france when you will see them riding another bike is on the time trials which brings you to your next type of bike. Time trial bikes are specked for going as fast as possible over a set course. They get you in a very aero position etc. Probably not that good an idea for commuting.

A cyclocross is not a compromise when you use if for cyclocross but as someone pointed out it is a bit if you use it elsewhere. The cyclocross sport involves cycling laps over multiple terrain most of them off raod and carrying your bike over barriers and up particulary steep hills etc. In essence it looks like a road bike but it has thin off road tyres. The geometry and type of brakes used are also a bit different to a road bike to accomodate the demands of the sport. I ride one of these myself as I want a bike that is fairly fast on the road but which I can take off road as well. As I only have room in my flat for one bike this was a compromise I was happy to make.

Carbon forks reduce weight and also absorb some of the vibration you feel on an aluminium bike. If you get a full carbon frame it woud be a bit odd to put a metal fork on it. If you go for a metal frame then a carbon fork is a good step to improving the ride. Titanium bikes also have a less harsh ride than an aluminium one can but unless you find a good second hand bargain they are probably out of your price range anyway.

Will the bike shop spec it as you want? This probably depends on the shop and as someone else mentioned probably not on off the peg lower end bikes.

As for shops - its probably best to be a bit of internet reserach to get a shortlist including asking the advice of the good folk here in the forum and then see who has them in stock or who can get them once you know what you want. You may find the best deals are on line. but you can always returen the bike if you don't like it. Its worth doing a bit of up front research rather then buying a bike simply becuase the shop has it in stock. You don't want to wich 2 months down the line that you had got something else.

By the sound of what you said you want a road bike as you could commute on it and race it. If you want to go off road the cyclocross bike is a compromise worth considering.

Good luck.

singlespeedexplosif

lost_in_thought wrote:

OK, so...

I am/have been the proud owner of some proper rubbish bikes.

However, in a departure from the norm, I am now looking at getting myself a nice bike for riding on the road, and possibly doing some racing on if I ever get fast enough.

Basically I am fed up of my downtube shifters... :oops: and putting integrated brake/gear systems on an £84 bike seems a little silly...

So, I have some questions for you:

1. What is the difference between a Road bike, a TT bike and a cyclocross bike? If anyone says 'the name' I will come round there and slap you silly.

2. Carbon frame/forks - worth the extra money?

3. Will most companies/shops set up the gearing how you want it on a road bike? Or is it a bit 'you get what's on it'?

4. Where is a good shop in central/west london/similar which will have a good assortment of bikes in stock in various sizes so I can test lots out and find what suits?

5. At what point does adding ££ to the cost lead to such a small difference in perceptible quality that you're overspending? Or, what's a sensible budget to set myself?

6. What's the deal with these deep rim wheels? Why bother with them?

Thanks all!

1) TT bike - real generalisations here - different geometry to a road bike, stiffer, harsher perhaps, more stretched out riding position...built for speed not comfort. Wouldn't be without mine, but certainly wouldn't dream of commuting in London on it!
Road bike - a road bike
Cross bike - 1000% of ace. Essentially looks like a road bike, but with more powerful brakes, lower gears and off-road tyres. Great fun and certainly can hold their own both on-and off-road. Great if you have a mix of eg roads and towpaths for your commute.
2) most definitely
3) If you go to a decent shop, you can tweak it to a degree. Compact/triple chainset, different ratio cassettes. Other shops will be 'you can have what's on it, or nowt'.
4) Never really used London bike shops when I lived there but my buddies in the area swear by Condor
5) overspending on bikes? does not compute Only you can answer that one
6) They're lovely. Stiffer, better aerodynamics, better looks. But not entirely necessary for the commuter. Stick with Mavic Open Pros

chriskempton

Oh yeah deep rims.

Loads of threads on this in the road gear section. Bit like the Tri bike really, worth it when you're at a decent standard, but not worth the aggravation while you're getting there. Normally carbon, which means scary bad braking if its wet, and a nightmare in strong crosswinds once they're over about 50mm deep.

el_presidente

1. What is the difference between a Road bike, a TT bike and a cyclocross bike? If anyone says 'the name' I will come round there and slap you silly.

Already covered by previous posters. TT bike can only really do TTs. Raod bike will go on the road. Cross bike is liek a road bike but wider mud clearances and canti brakes so you can fit chunky tyres. Will be fine on the road if you fit slicks.

2. Carbon frame/forks - worth the extra money?


Forks yes, take some road buzz away. Most new bikes have these anyway. Frame maybe but you will be looking north of a grand, if that is your budget then fine. If not then alu is perfectly serviceable and more durable.

3. Will most companies/shops set up the gearing how you want it on a road bike? Or is it a bit 'you get what's on it'?


Talk to the shop. I'm sure they'll do you a deal.

4. Where is a good shop in central/west london/similar which will have a good assortment of bikes in stock in various sizes so I can test lots out and find what suits?


Central - Condor - spendy. Cycle Surgery Holborn is pretty good imho

5. At what point does adding ££ to the cost lead to such a small difference in perceptible quality that you're overspending? Or, what's a sensible budget to set myself?

start point for a decent road bike is £500 I reckon.

6. What's the deal with these deep rim wheels? Why bother with them?

Aerodynamics. Most will only take tubular tyres though and you really don't want those.

staffo

6) They're lovely.

Not in today's wind they're not

il_principe

I'd say £1500 is about right for something that's about the best vfm. Or for a £1k look at the Focus Cayo (a la Biondino).

I think Greg answers the "type question" but you don't want a TT bike they are designed for stretched out full pelt aero riding for relatively short distances and are not massively comfy or very easy to ride up hills. Same basically applies to TT bikes, not ideal for nice Sunday pootles and if you ever intend to race then a TT bike would not be allowed (unless you're doing a TT!)

There's a lot of choice with gearing. Firstly the front - you can have a double (usually 52/39) or compact (usually 50/34) or triple, say 50/42/30. I use a compact as this is fine for use in the UK but can also get me up mountains.

At the back there's loads of choice - smallest ring is 11 and they go up to around 29/30. Most setups are now 10 speed at the back. Again I use an 11/23 but it is very very easy to swap cassettes.

Shopwise I really like Sigma in Hampton Wick but I'm sure people will ave others. Avoid Evans.

Deep rim wheels are more aerodynamic. Current thinking suggests that overall aero is more important than weight in terms of energy saving! Good deep rim wheels are expensive.

redddraggon

Jen J wrote:

I think cross bikes are a bit of a compromise as they are intended as fast off-road bikes that can be carried over obstacles, and seem to be a bit of jack of all trades, master of none.

Of cyclocross bikes are master at cyclocross....

lost_in_thought wrote:

Whenever setting up my own bikes I prefer for the saddle to be over the cranks as much as possible - why would this affect the comfort?

Not good.....saddle further back means more power for climbing and under UCI regs (if you were to race) you need the tip of the saddle to be at least 5cm behind the bottom bracket.

redddraggon

singlespeedexplosif wrote:

1) TT bike - real generalisations here - different geometry to a road bike, stiffer, harsher perhaps, more stretched out riding position...

You sure? TT bikes should have a shorter top tube and a short stem than your road bike, but a larger drop. So you aren't really more stretched out, you are just lower and more aerodynamic.

singlespeedexplosif

if you're on the tri-bars, then yes, it's a more stretched out riding position! If you're not - what's the point?

Kieran_Burns

Can you stop this now before this ends up like the Road Forum and we all start discussing the relative aerodynamic properties of descent profiles.....

Jen J

redddraggon wrote:

Jen J wrote:

I think cross bikes are a bit of a compromise as they are intended as fast off-road bikes that can be carried over obstacles, and seem to be a bit of jack of all trades, master of none.

Of cyclocross bikes are master at cyclocross....

Very true. But still a very niche sport.

And I got my carbon forks/frames mixed up, but that's what I menat anyway... :oops:

Bugly

Tri bikes are fine but are not super nimble - in a tri you want to be aero and also above the bottom bracket to relax the legs for the run (as much as possible) but aero is king. The bike has more rake and more relaxed head tube as you are sitting flat with you weight forward, ie aero. This has the effect of a more sluggish steering bike. Also consider that Tri courses are comparitivly flat so the bikes dont have to be great climbers.

Classic road bike, well there are variations but a racing frame is designed for fast responsive handling instantly changing line in response to your change in weight. (can be a bit off putting first time you suddenly change postion). The bike is designed to be ridden fast, but mostly in a group (pelaton) for reasonable distances over various terrains. If you look at a criterium (street circuit) bike the frame is more upright in the seat tube and the head tube making it damn fast handling but not much fun on a long ride or race (too tiring, jarring).

Cyclocross bikes I havent ridden but by their use have more relaxed geomety, rugged build, lots of clearance to accomodate larger tyres, (and mud ) use canti brakes (no allowed to use disks) to shed mud, Again pretty much specialist masochistic gear.

As GregT says the classic race bike is the jack of all trades (and master of some) its the best all purpose high end bike if you enjoy great handling and riding at pace. Personallly would not buy a tri bike unless I was competing and even then it woulld be used for that purpose only. Its not the bike for fun rides. YMMV.

Look at a custom frame or a womens frame (dependant on your body proportions) its a lot tougher getting a bike set up for a woman than a man.. Your preference for being over the cranks may really be due to the legth of the top tube rather then that being your ideal sitting positon.

Re materials - look a quality bike will be great regardless of the material I have an old R531 hand made frame, Cannondale Caad 4 frame (several gens old I know) and a carbon frame. The Carbon frames can give good compliance and great power transfer, my cannondale feels more direct in powertransfer but also feels more direct in terms of bumps passed on. The steel frame is a classic racing frame and is more responsive steering wise (geometry) to my mind but has a compliant ride but least power transfer in a sprint. Personally the carbon bike is only months old but I find that I can get a few more mph and miles out of my old legs then on the steel frame.

Re overspending - tough to say but feel wise you really get very little extra performance going from say Centaur to Record (have both) or from Ultegra to DuraAce (was tempted by Durace (and still am with the electronice servo shifting) but the Ultegra is a super groupo.

The wheels are classic areas for spending, personally would not advise going down the single route, lots of magic factory wheels out there or if you are a traditionalist go down the custom build by a reputable builder (or do your own). My rule of thumb is that I will spend as much on a wheels set as on a frame or a groupo.

If you can stand last years gear (and there is no reason not to) you get super deals with retailers ofloading last years premium gear with massive discounts.

Campag and Shimano both have super gear out there (unfortunatly not compatable in the 10sp) and SRAM has a growing reputation.

Cant help with bike shops (wrong continent). Sorry for the ramble and good luck with your choice.

redddraggon

singlespeedexplosif wrote:

if you're on the tri-bars, then yes, it's a more stretched out riding position! If you're not - what's the point?

Cancellera looks more stretched out on his road bike to me. TT bikes are quite compact - it's not about stretching its about getting low....

singlespeedexplosif

show me a photo of him on his road bike where his hands are practically over the front of his front wheel?

Bugly

@reddragon yep its about getting over the axles to bring in those large muscle groups and getting flat. The top tube can be shorter as you are strectched over the bars but see he is taking load almost vertically through the arms , the slack head angle and the fact you generally dont have to steer quickly allow the frame to have some toe/wheel overlap .

Tri bikes dont tend to be this extreme in the top tube as it would not leave you fresh for a run.

redddraggon

singlespeedexplosif wrote:

show me a photo of him on his road bike where his hands are practically over the front of his front wheel?

Being stretched out is nothing to do with the position of his hands. I think you are misunderstanding "stretched out". He'd be stretched out if his upper arms weren't so vertical......

His knees are hitting his elbows - if he was stretched out his knees would not be hitting his elbows.

biondino

jashburnham wrote:

I'd say £1500 is about right for something that's about the best vfm. Or for a £1k look at the Focus Cayo (a la Biondino)

Oi! Mine's a Focus Cayo EXPERT I'll have you know!

singlespeedexplosif

I think you are misunderstanding "stretched out"

I'm not sure I am. But perhaps we have different ideas of what it means. His arms aren't stretched out, sure. The most forward part of his body is further forward than it would be on his road bike. A quibble over wording, perhaps. But we're talking about the same thing really.

His knees aren't hitting his elbows. That would be stupid. It just looks as though they are.

redddraggon

singlespeedexplosif wrote:

The most forward part of his body is further forward than it would be on his road bike.

It's because the seattube angle is steeper, and he's perched right on the tip on his saddle.

In my eyes being stretched out is all about the angle between the torso and the upper arms.

cjcp

redddraggon wrote:

singlespeedexplosif wrote:

The most forward part of his body is further forward than it would be on his road bike.

It's because the seattube angle is steeper, and he's perched right on the tip on his saddle.

In my eyes being stretched out is all about the angle between the torso and the upper arms.

In the sense that your backside gets pushed back, thereby closing the angle between torso and stomach.

redddraggon

Now that's stretched out .......

singlespeedexplosif