Id rather walk than use Shimano

pdstsp

Group 1 - rust buckets and arty farty fur coat and no knickers
Group 2 - stuff that works

Is that the answer?

synchronicity

If that's the way you want to convince yourself...

By the way, most of my bikes are shimano. But my personal ones are campag...

bobpzero

group 1 - hare - mockingly faster than fast
group 2 - tortoise - goes slower than the go faster boys but still gets to destination on time

dont forget renault for group 2
anyways im confused, wheres this discussion heading to a conclusion.
people just buy what they can reasonably practicably afford some a lot more than others. it just goes to show you will never be content with what you have.

Rob Sallnow

bobpzero wrote:

anyways im confused, wheres this discussion heading to a conclusion.
people just buy what they can reasonably practicably afford some a lot more than others. it just goes to show you will never be content with what you have.

It's about two different things that work perfectly well but one has been given a considerable amount of time to the style (and has a long tradition of doing so) whilst the other's appearance is just following function. That's not to say that some people find Shimano beautiful :? just like some people prefer the look of a Nissan Skyline to a Ferrari 360 Modena, for example.

idaviesmoore

synchronicity wrote:

nypd wrote:

Ash_ wrote:

singlespeedexplosif wrote:

so a top-end Smart car, for instance, is comparable with a top-end Aston Martin? Because they're both top of that particular manufacturer's range? Slightly dodgy comparison I agree,

But what makes Shimano the 'Smart' and Campagnolo the 'Aston Martin'? That's the bit I don't understand, because I really thought that the differences people state were subjective - which isn't a problem, but I don't get how Record is 'better' than Dura-Ace.

Why is Campag automatically the supercar & Shimano the cheap run around, is Campag really that far superior than Shimano ? & if it is why would so many pro teams ride bikes with inferior equipment.

What do the following brands have in common?

Group 1:
Ferrari
Lamborghini
Maserati
Alfa Romeo
Ducati
Aprilia
Benelli
MV Agusta
Pirelli
Brembo
Pinarello
Colnago
Gios
Cinelli
Deda Elementi
Selle Italia
Versace

Group 2:
Mazda
Toyota (yes you can even include lexus if you want )
Mistubishi
Kawasaki
Suzuki
Yamaha
Seiko
Citizen
Casio
Araya
Cat Eye
Sugino
NEC
Fujitsu
Oh wait a minute, there's also Sony, Honda & Toshiba (I racked my brain to think of these 3)

Notice a slight pattern emerging here???
]

You must be joking, Synchro. The Italian stuff may look the DB's but, and I speak from very painful and expensive personal experiance, when you're:

1. Freezing you nadgers off on M54/M6 waiting for the AA to turn up again
2. Late for work again
]3. Getting the arches welded again
4. Arguing with the service manager again
5. Trying to get Italian things repaired but the company's gone into liquidation and there's a glaringly obvious and tedious design fault that's APITA again
6. Trying to make sense of the wiring loom again
7. Trying to reason with your missus why we shouldn't torch the italian 'supercar' for insurance purposes because it's worth more as ashes than as steel....... again

Ferrari.?........glorified Fiat (Fix It Again Tony)
Ducait..?........Don't cati
Alfa Romeo?.....Halfa Heart attack
Maserati..??.......Load of farty

Most of the Italian 'marques' you cite are indeed evocatiive, but the reality of many of these is that they are just...................... pants


I've had 2 jap cars and they may not be as 'evocative' as the Italian counterpart but when it's freezing in the morning and there's an inch of frost on the windscreen I know which car I'd put my money on starting everytime...and it ain't no 308 GTS

Just my opinion, of course

Rob Sallnow

I wouldn't go too deep in to the car analogy as it doesn't work a great deal beyond the style aspect. I wouldn't buy an Italian television or camera for example.

bigmat

For what its worth, I've been running Shimano on my MTB (now commuter) for the past 15 years. The original parts have been more or less bomb proof, but over the last year or so I have made a couple of upgrades / replaced inevitably worn parts. The new cassette, chain and deore v brakes all need replacing after around 6 months, which is pretty remarkable when their predecessors lasted a decade and a half. So I'm wondering if Shimano quality control isn't what it once was.

I run Campagnolo on my road bike (mainly Mirage but with a bit of Chorus thrown in for fun) and its very easy to set up and requires minimal maintenance. Bit pricier than the Shimano equivalent, but I'd definitely lean that way if I ever bought another road bike (and I'm seriously not one for snobbery / buying the most expensive thing).

synchronicity

idaviesmoore wrote:

I've had 2 jap cars and they may not be as 'evocative' as the Italian counterpart but when it's freezing in the morning and there's an inch of frost on the windscreen I know which car I'd put my money on starting everytime...and it ain't no 308 GTS

So you let frost gather on your Italian 'supercar' and then use it to commute? No wonder it's not happy. :evil:

idaviesmoore

synchronicity wrote:

idaviesmoore wrote:

I've had 2 jap cars and they may not be as 'evocative' as the Italian counterpart but when it's freezing in the morning and there's an inch of frost on the windscreen I know which car I'd put my money on starting everytime...and it ain't no 308 GTS

So you let frost gather on your Italian 'supercar' and then use it to commute? No wonder it's not happy. :evil:

I live in Wales, fella. I get frost on the car that's under a sheet and in my garage. Everything HAS to work when it's either wet or freezing or both.

And my dad had a Honda NSX and that NEVER broke down and it was used pretty much everyday :shock:

Clever Pun

I like the hoods and gear shifts better on campag than shimano

that's why I choose what I do

I do like the loud free wheel as well, it's good for letting people know you're not trying

Monty Dog

Gimme fur coat and no knickers anyday - sod the consequences!!

I started off using Shimano and remember going into a shop in Glasgow run be a well-known ex-pro who roundly slagged me off for using the stuff - put me off for a while I tell you. (he might have been a great rider, but that didn't stop him being an a-hole selling solvents to street kids) Anyway succession of original 105 and 600 groupsets saw me through my first few 'real' bikes but then I bought some Chorus parts for an Italian frame and it was a revelation - and I'm still using those parts today, whereas my old Shimano stuff forms the layer of white powder on the garage floor. I've spend some time as a bike mechanic and regularly service other bikes - 99% Shimano and whilst it works most of the time, when it goes wrong it goes wrong badly - STIs are excessively complicated for what they are - pull apart an Ergo and compare the two - more parts = increased probability of failure - give me clunky anyday!

hopper1

Until recently, I rode a succession of fast motorbikes...
Ducati's, specifically the 916, 996, 998 where/ are without doubt absolutely dropp dead gorgeous...
But, as I wanted to go fast and get home without the AA, I rode Jap bikes. Faster, reliable, and handled just as well, if not better. Even when I decided to ride 'V'- twins, I bought an SP1, loved it to death, then bought an SP2, fantastic.
I also owned an Alfa Romeo 156, again fabulous, and a proper drivers car. When I wanted to go faster, I looked at the GTA, then bought an RS4!
Italians...They look the part, but at the end of the day....They are not!

Rob Sallnow

hopper1 wrote:

But, as I wanted to go fast and get home without the AA, I rode Jap bikes. :

But with cycling it's the other way round....I wanted to ride a long way without any of the components being recalled midride.

markos1963

Rob Sallnow wrote:

markos1963 wrote:

Never mind about gears! The only camera worth buying is a Leica

Especially if it's made by Panasonic!!!

I meant a proper Leica, one that takes real film.

synchronicity

hopper1 wrote:

Until recently, I rode a succession of fast motorbikes...
Ducati's, specifically the 916, 996, 998 where/ are without doubt absolutely dropp dead gorgeous...
But, as I wanted to go fast and get home without the AA, I rode Jap bikes. Faster, reliable, and handled just as well, if not better. Even when I decided to ride 'V'- twins, I bought an SP1, loved it to death, then bought an SP2, fantastic.
I also owned an Alfa Romeo 156, again fabulous, and a proper drivers car. When I wanted to go faster, I looked at the GTA, then bought an RS4!
Italians...They look the part, but at the end of the day....They are not!

Heeeeey. Who's side are you on anyway?!

( )

hopper1

synchronicity wrote:

hopper1 wrote:

Until recently, I rode a succession of fast motorbikes...
Ducati's, specifically the 916, 996, 998 where/ are without doubt absolutely dropp dead gorgeous...
But, as I wanted to go fast and get home without the AA, I rode Jap bikes. Faster, reliable, and handled just as well, if not better. Even when I decided to ride 'V'- twins, I bought an SP1, loved it to death, then bought an SP2, fantastic.
I also owned an Alfa Romeo 156, again fabulous, and a proper drivers car. When I wanted to go faster, I looked at the GTA, then bought an RS4!
Italians...They look the part, but at the end of the day....They are not!

Heeeeey. Who's side are you on anyway?!

( )

At the moment I'm riding Shimano, for road and MTB.
But, I'm about to buy a new road bike draped in................................
SRAM Red!!! :twisted:
Work that one out!

Mark Alexander

Right here's my spanner and i'm going to throw it in the works.

Campag for group 1
Shimano in 2
Where's SRAM going to go?

my favorite needs a group3
Chainring/crank Miche with Exage Motion brake leavers and Tektro brakes on my fixed

redddraggon

hopper1 wrote:

But, I'm about to buy a new road bike draped in................................
SRAM Red!!! :twisted:
Work that one out!

SRAM and Campag are both the best options, both sorting out what's wrong with Shimano (and there's a lot wrong).

Even though I ride Campag, SRAM seem to win on my scoring method :shock:

Ken Night

redddraggon wrote:

SRAM and Campag are both the best options, both sorting out what's wrong with Shimano (and there's a lot wrong).

Even though I ride Campag, SRAM seem to win on my scoring method :shock:

Without too much incendary comment, what, briefly is wrong?

What is your scoring method?

Declaration-I ride Campag mostly-4 bikes fitted with Campag 10, 1 with Shimergo, beater bike and MtB, both Shimano. However a 2 minute ride with SRAM Red earlier this year convinced me
-intuitive, crisp shifting, light and beautiful

Patrick1.0

My training bike has always had campag on it, and I always used to look at the hoods on shimano bikes and think: "I am not going to like those hoods." But, since I bought my lightweight racing machine, I have to say, I simply love them. The design, feel, everything. The gear shifts are really fantastic and so on. But surely there's not much difference between the top of the range stuff on both sides? It doesn't make sense that there should be and it surely and purely comes down to personal taste. I like anything that works well.

redddraggon

Ken Night wrote:

redddraggon wrote:

SRAM and Campag are both the best options, both sorting out what's wrong with Shimano (and there's a lot wrong).

Even though I ride Campag, SRAM seem to win on my scoring method :shock:

Without too much incendary comment, what, briefly is wrong?

What is your scoring method?

redddraggon wrote:

But SRAM and Campagnolo, don't have wobbly brake levers, concealed cables, more comfortable hoods and more ergonomic/easier shifting (no dodgy wobbly brake lever). I can't really see a reason to choose Shimano over either SRAM or Campag.

The only things that Shimano seems to have going for it:

a. It works well (but so does everything else)
b. Loads of cassettes and wheels available - but this applies equally to SRAM aswell.
c. The OEM price is cheaper than everything else (SRAM are starting to creep in now though). The low OEM price is the real reason why everything is kitted out with the stuff,.

SRAM seems to have all the good points of Campag and the good points of Shimano. SRAM does have it's own problems, but I'm sure they'll get worked out over time. I'm not sure I'll move away from Campag just yet as I'm comfortable, but if I build a CX bike anytime soon, it'll probably have a largely Rival drivetrain.

KTbiker

It's all a means to an end, as long as my gears work I don't mind and as with everything you get what you pay for- higher end gears will be better than cheaper ones. I've got a cheap commuter and a more expensive road bike, both Shimano and the Tiagra on my road bike is miles better than the basic stuff I've got on my other one- I suspect it would be the same with Campag (although to be honest I'm a newbie biker so I'm not an expert).