Id rather walk than use Shimano

FullFrameRob

Right im sure the S v C debate has been done a 1,000 times, but heres my 2p worth.

I just dont get it the whole id never ride a bike that has either Shimano or Campag fitted, depending which camp your in. Ive had the chance to ride bikes with both top & bottom end Campag & Shimano groupsets, hey ive even had a little play around with SRAM Red.

As a photographer as well as a cyclist the whole Shimano v Campag reminds me of the endless Canon v Nikon argument.

The Campag brigade, is it just snobbery with them ? so while your at a cafe stop you can stand there in your Assos kit and carbon Record gruppo bike and think your better than everyone else, only to get dropped at the next hill by some guy useing 8 speed Sora.

Personally id be happy to have a bike that had either Campag or Shimano fitted, im noot a big fan of Campag levers but love the look of the chainsets. Im not keen on the look of the DA chainset although i really like the Ultegra chainset & hate that fact that only untill the new DA groupset Shimano didnt hide the cables.

So i guess my question is to both the Campag & Shimano camps would they ever be a situation where you would switch groupsets. With the top end groupsets is one manufacture really that much better than the other, although dont they say Campag wears in where as Shimano wears out !!!

Saying that if i was in the market for a new bike id go for SRAM Red.

markos1963

Never mind about gears! The only camera worth buying is a Leica

a_n_t

nypd wrote:

in your Assos kit and carbon Record gruppo bike and think your better than everyone else, only to get dropped at the next hill by some guy useing 8 speed Sora.

i've never got that arguement.

SO you're not allowed to buy high end gear in case someone faster cant afford it?


bollox.

FullFrameRob

a_n_t wrote:

nypd wrote:

in your Assos kit and carbon Record gruppo bike and think your better than everyone else, only to get dropped at the next hill by some guy useing 8 speed Sora.

i've never got that arguement.

SO you're not allowed to buy high end gear in case someone faster cant afford it?


bollox.

No, never said you cant buy top end gear. I think sometimes you get what you pay for. I mean my Canon 70-200 L lens will p**s over some cheap £100 plastic bit of junk.

I just think there is quite a bit of bike snobbery out there and alot comes from the Campag camp, i have record so my bike IS better than yours. It will be a better bike than the guy riding the sub £500 Sora bike, but no need to act like a t***er cus when your pushing it up Winnats Pass and me and my buddy pass you, you just look like a right charlie.

synchronicity

Both function perfectly well.

I tend to side with campagnolo, but it does cost more. I like the way many of the parts are rebuildable with campy. Those that say campag is fiddley or compare it to an Italian car or whatever probably haven't run it.

For me the choice between the two all boils down to the levers.

What don't I like about shimano? Not much. I just don't like the fact that the big lever is used for braking and gear shifting. The hoods are huge & I can't stand the way the brake cable is routed through the levers... this little metal barrel always seems to pop out & it's a PITA to get it back in because these little plastic end cap bushings always pop off and end up deep inside the lever mechanism... :evil: I'm not keen on the external gear housing, but that's about to change. The shimano alloy levers also have a corrosion problem.

I have to think harder if someone were to ask me "What don't I like about campagnolo?".
I suppose the skeleton brakes are harder to clean. I also think the ultratorque bearings have an inherent problem; drag in the bottom bracket bearings is quite noticeable (it's not normally something I even think about)

dodgy

There are various types of cyclists.

Shimano users, Campagnolo users and a load of other brand obsessives who spend more time whining about other people's groupsets than actually riding.

Also, see the PC versus MAC debate, that's even sadder.

Dave.

Jez mon

I've never met anyone who says, totally sincerely that one is crap and the other is the only thing worth putting on your bike, I just think you're taking the whole thing too seriously.

ddraver

I use SRAM anyway.......

grayo59

Hasselblad and Olympus.

Ash_

I get the impression that there are some on this forum that genuinely believe that one really is incomparably better than the other (and it's always the components from Vicenza, isn't it?).

If people like that want to be loyal to only one brand, then fair enough, it's their money - but the harping on about it...

I mean, the main business of both Campganolo and Shimano is making bicycle components (although you can get Ultegra fishing reels, and Campag do make those very nice corkscrews). Both companies are very good at it, it's in their interests to be. So could we all just knock it on the head?

What's even worse than Campag v. Shimano is when people ask a (often genuine) question about which specific groupset is better, e.g Should I get Veloce or 105? Then you get the most convoluted load of cr@p from some explaining why one is better because it's higher up the range / has an extra sprocket / has a slightly different rubber compound for the hoods - whatever they can come up with to justify why what they bought is what everybody else should buy.

Anyway - people who truly care about cycling should make sure they have at least one bike in their collection equipped by each of the major manufacturers - That's doing it properly!

Apologies for the rant - it's out of the system now. I can get back to work...

singlespeedexplosif

I get the impression that there are some on this forum that genuinely believe that one really is incomparably better than the other (and it's always the components from Vicenza, isn't it?).

lol...it's usually just a leg-pull thing and tends to be just an old-fashioned argument along the lines of 'classy italian artwork vs Japanese mass-produced dullness' as with sports cars etc....(eg, the opening sequence of The Italian Job would have looked just wrong had Beckermann been driving a Mazda...;) )

As long as you compare like for like - ie Dura-Ace with Chorus, Ultegra with Centaur etc, rather than comparing quite different products ie Dura-Ace with Record.., then they're pretty much equal and the decision comes down to aesthetics - some people prefer the feel of Shimano hoods, some Campag - some prefer positive clunky shifts and loud freewheels, others prefer quiet shifting and freewheels...and nobody in their right mind likes the looks of the Dura-Ace chainset.




(FWIW - both my road bikes are Shimano-equipped...one DA and one 105.)

Ash_

singlespeedexplosif wrote:

As long as you compare like for like - ie Dura-Ace with Chorus, Ultegra with Centaur etc, rather than comparing quite different products ie Dura-Ace with Record..,

You see, it's this bit that I don't get. Why is it not possible to compare Dura-Ace to Record? They're both top end groupsets. They're both what the pros ride... By not comparing Record to anything else, it's a sort of covert admission that Campagnolo is better, that Record is incomparably good.

I'm not actually looking for an 'answer' by the way. I know there isn't one. I just don't get the mentality...

redddraggon

Ash_ wrote:

I just don't get the mentality...

All groupsets these days shift perfectly.

But SRAM and Campagnolo, don't have wobbly brake levers, concealed cables, more comfortable hoods and more ergonomic/easier shifting (no dodgy wobbly brake lever). I can't really see a reason to choose Shimano over either SRAM or Campag.

singlespeedexplosif

You see, it's this bit that I don't get. Why is it not possible to compare Dura-Ace to Record? They're both top end groupsets

so a top-end Smart car, for instance, is comparable with a top-end Aston Martin? Because they're both top of that particular manufacturer's range? Slightly dodgy comparison I agree,

They're both what the pros ride..

indeed. I'd ride butt nekid with no saddle were I paid to do so

Ash_

singlespeedexplosif wrote:

so a top-end Smart car, for instance, is comparable with a top-end Aston Martin? Because they're both top of that particular manufacturer's range? Slightly dodgy comparison I agree,

But what makes Shimano the 'Smart' and Campagnolo the 'Aston Martin'? That's the bit I don't understand, because I really thought that the differences people state were subjective - which isn't a problem, but I don't get how Record is 'better' than Dura-Ace.

As for the pros. CSC buy their own groupsets, they don't have a sponsorhip deal (it would bring them into conflict over Zipp, one of their sponsors / suppliers). They've been riding Dura-Ace and seem to have done alright over the years.

a_n_t

nypd wrote:

i have record so my bike IS better than yours. .

so has anyone actually said that to you?

nypd wrote:

when your pushing it up Winnats Pass and me and my buddy pass you, you just look like a right charlie.

hhmmmmm, so snobbery from the "I'm fitter but my bikes worth less" camp eh?

DavidBelcher

singlespeedexplosif wrote:

lol...it's usually just a leg-pull thing and tends to be just an old-fashioned argument along the lines of 'classy italian artwork vs Japanese mass-produced dullness' as with sports cars etc....(eg, the opening sequence of The Italian Job would have looked just wrong had Beckermann been driving a Mazda...;) )

But then we all know which cars are the ones which make The Italian Job such a top film - and on the basis of that maybe we should be using parts made by Hope, USE, Middleburn [1], Goldtec, X-Lite and Royce?

David

[1] Already using stuff from these three makers anyroad. Lovely but not cheap.

damage36

Its all about my sora/105/tiagra combo. Sora levers are horrible, i really should have spent a bit more on that...

cougie

I think if you're obsessing on the groupsets - you're missing out on the whole point of cycling. Its the joy of the miles passing beneath your wheels. Not looking at a piece or alloy. Get a grip people.

shockedsoshocked

The only reason I'd buy campag was if I was getting an Italian bike, as it would just be wrong not to.

But aslong as the groupset I choose makes my wheels go round I don't really care.

FullFrameRob

a_n_t wrote:

nypd wrote:

i have record so my bike IS better than yours. .

so has anyone actually said that to you?

nypd wrote:

when your pushing it up Winnats Pass and me and my buddy pass you, you just look like a right charlie.

hhmmmmm, so snobbery from the "I'm fitter but my bikes worth less" camp eh?

Yes i have, at the time i was riding a bike made by a certain U.S company fitted with what could only be called crappy Japanese components, so my bike had to be less superior than his Italian dream machine.



And no snobbery from me, I dont go around acting like a t***er becasue i think i have better legs than some other guy, although i should have said to him as we where passing my legs are better than yours.

ride_whenever

Ash_ wrote:

Anyway - people who truly care about cycling should make sure they have at least one bike in their collection equipped by each of the major manufacturers - That's doing it properly!

Not quite, if you're going to do this properly, you need bikes based on the same frames and forks with the same contact points etc. Built up with all the groupsets. Then you could run some proper tests based on times up hills, comfort (based on time you can stay on a turbo) length of time before indexing starts to go etc.

That would make a really interesting article for the S vs. C debate althought it'd be really dull to actually do...

FullFrameRob

Ash_ wrote:

singlespeedexplosif wrote:

so a top-end Smart car, for instance, is comparable with a top-end Aston Martin? Because they're both top of that particular manufacturer's range? Slightly dodgy comparison I agree,

But what makes Shimano the 'Smart' and Campagnolo the 'Aston Martin'? That's the bit I don't understand, because I really thought that the differences people state were subjective - which isn't a problem, but I don't get how Record is 'better' than Dura-Ace.

As for the pros. CSC buy their own groupsets, they don't have a sponsorhip deal (it would bring them into conflict over Zipp, one of their sponsors / suppliers). They've been riding Dura-Ace and seem to have done alright over the years.

See thats what i dont get in the whole C v S argument. Why is Campag automatically the supercar & Shimano the cheap run around, is Campag really that far superior than Shimano ? & if it is why would so many pro teams ride bikes with inferior equipment.

mrushton

if someone wants to give me a gruppo be it DA/Record/SRAM I'll use it. Who cares as long as it's reliable. i don't care what anyone else uses, if you are going faster than me on the flat or uphill/downhill, you are better than me at that discipline.

Ash_

ride_whenever wrote:

Ash_ wrote:

Anyway - people who truly care about cycling should make sure they have at least one bike in their collection equipped by each of the major manufacturers - That's doing it properly!

Not quite, if you're going to do this properly, you need bikes based on the same frames and forks with the same contact points etc. Built up with all the groupsets. Then you could run some proper tests based on times up hills, comfort (based on time you can stay on a turbo) length of time before indexing starts to go etc.

That would make a really interesting article for the S vs. C debate althought it'd be really dull to actually do...

I wasn't implying that it should be taken as some sort of accurate scientific test. I just mean that having a bike equipped with Campagnolo and another one equipped with Shimano gives another 'vaild' reason to justify buying another bike to whoever you have to justify it to (wife / bank manager / inner demons).

And if the aforementioned doesn't believe you, just direct them to threads like this so they can see just how very, very, very important the whole thing is.

Rob Sallnow

markos1963 wrote:

Never mind about gears! The only camera worth buying is a Leica

Especially if it's made by Panasonic!!!

redddraggon

mrushton wrote:

Who cares as long as it's reliable.

You don't give a damn about your hands feeling like crap then?

FullFrameRob

redddraggon wrote:

mrushton wrote:

Who cares as long as it's reliable.

You don't give a damn about your hands feeling like crap then?

If the Campag users want crap feeling hands thats up to them !!!

But isnt that really all down to personal preference / comfort rather than one manufactures product been better quality than anothers.

redddraggon

nypd wrote:

redddraggon wrote:

mrushton wrote:

Who cares as long as it's reliable.

You don't give a damn about your hands feeling like crap then?

But isnt that really all down to personal preference / comfort rather than one manufactures product been better quality than anothers.

That's what I'm saying, it's more than just reliability that you select a group on.

proto

"I just want to say one word to you, just one word."

"Yes, sir,"

"Are you listening?"

"Yes, sir, I am."

"Olympus."

synchronicity

nypd wrote:

Ash_ wrote:

singlespeedexplosif wrote:

so a top-end Smart car, for instance, is comparable with a top-end Aston Martin? Because they're both top of that particular manufacturer's range? Slightly dodgy comparison I agree,

But what makes Shimano the 'Smart' and Campagnolo the 'Aston Martin'? That's the bit I don't understand, because I really thought that the differences people state were subjective - which isn't a problem, but I don't get how Record is 'better' than Dura-Ace.

Why is Campag automatically the supercar & Shimano the cheap run around, is Campag really that far superior than Shimano ? & if it is why would so many pro teams ride bikes with inferior equipment.

What do the following brands have in common?

Group 1:
Ferrari
Lamborghini
Maserati
Alfa Romeo
Ducati
Aprilia
Benelli
MV Agusta
Pirelli
Brembo
Pinarello
Colnago
Gios
Cinelli
Deda Elementi
Selle Italia
Versace

Group 2:
Mazda
Toyota (yes you can even include lexus if you want )
Mistubishi
Kawasaki
Suzuki
Yamaha
Seiko
Citizen
Casio
Araya
Cat Eye
Sugino
NEC
Fujitsu
Oh wait a minute, there's also Sony, Honda & Toshiba (I racked my brain to think of these 3)

Notice a slight pattern emerging here???

Anyone who knows anything about cars, motorbikes, bicycles or fashion knows what's what on this list. All of the brands in Group 1 evoke images of Italian STYLE.
*mind wanders into a another time & place entirely before returning to bikeradar forums*

Meanwhile, Group 2 "evokes"... err... no well that's the thing, isn't it? Jap stuff doesn't evoke anything because we see and use this stuff every day of the friggen week. Sure it's functional, but at the same time, bloody boring and completely predictable.

Now I wonder which groups campagnolo and shimano should fall into?