Creak emanating from BB/crank area

Jamey

As you probably recall, I had some trouble with my cranks at the beginning of this week. And then yesterday I thought my saddle was creaking.

Well I ended up cycling home quite late last night and the quietness of the roads gave me a chance to have a really good listen to the noise and it's coming from the cranks/bottom bracket area, not the saddle.

I've tried to narrow it down as much as possible so the next section is perhaps a little long winded but I want to give as much information as possible so that someone might be able to help me get it sorted. Here's what I've discovered so far:

• The noise sounds like a high-pitched creak, a bit like the noise you would get if you tightened a cable tie (or zip tie) quickly.
• The noise only happens when pedalling, it does not happen when coasting/freewheeling.
• The noise always happens at a certain point in the rotation of the pedals, when the left crank is at the seven o'clock position, as you view it face-on. This is regardless of what chainring/sprocket combination I use. It's always the same place.
• If I stand up and pedal, the noise is still there.
• The cranks have not come loose again since the other day. I've checked the bolts and they are just as tight as they were when I fixed the previous problem.
• That said however, when I attempt to tighten the bolts more you can hear a very brief creak that sounds similar to the noise I'm talking about.
• The noise only happens when pedalling forcefully. If I backpedal or get off the bike and turn the pedals backwards by hand, the noise does not occur. Also if I pedal forwards but not enough to generate force (so I'm effectively still freewheeling because I'm pedalling too slowly to create thrust) the noise does not occur then either.
• If I attempt to wiggle the cranks nothing happens, they feel solid. And if I try to push them with my hands I can't create enough force to make the noise happen.
• Three miles from home last night the noise stopped. But then it reappeared this morning albeit slightly more quiet than before.
• Last night, after the creaking stopped there were a couple of occasions when I thought I could hear a sort of faint knocking sound instead. But in each case it only happened for a couple of pedal rotations and then stopped.

I'm really struggling here because essentially everything seems tight, lubed and generally fine and it's driving me crazy.

Please help me.

biondino

On my Trek I was convinced my bottom bracket needed a good clean out because of the irregular but perpetual ticking sound which increased in proportion to force used. And I was right - my lbs cleaned and refitted the BB and now it doesn't tick any more.

Slow Downcp

Grease your seapost (including taking out the shim and greasing both side of that if it has one). It could be that - I had a similar noise on my Giant - seems to be a common issue.

Jamey

biondino wrote:

On my Trek I was convinced my bottom bracket needed a good clean out because of the irregular but perpetual ticking sound which increased in proportion to force used. And I was right - my lbs cleaned and refitted the BB and now it doesn't tick any more.

The thing is, I gave my bike a complete service on this course I did last weekend, and removing/cleaning/refitting the BB and cranks was part of that whole thing, so unless it's picked up a load of crud this week it ought to be clean.

Jamey

Slow Downcp wrote:

Grease your seapost (including taking out the shim and greasing both side of that if it has one). It could be that - I had a similar noise on my Giant - seems to be a common issue.

My seatpost and the inside of the seat tube are both greased... Well, it's Tacx carbon compound rather than actual grease because the post is carbon, but essentially the same job.

ExeterSimon

I had the same...so tightened the cranks and removed and re-greased the SPDs.

Creaking gone.

SBezza

Also try the headset, I was convinced I had a creak from the BB or seat area, but it eventually turned out to be the headset was a tiny bit loose. Since tightening it up, the bike is completely quiet.

Jamey

Don't you have to be a bit careful of tightening headsets that don't really need tightening?

Littigator

SBezza wrote:

Also try the headset, I was convinced I had a creak from the BB or seat area, but it eventually turned out to be the headset was a tiny bit loose. Since tightening it up, the bike is completely quiet.

I had the same thing, thought it was the BB, had it stripped and regreased and then realised it was the headset...which I still haven't done anything about DOH!

biondino

Jamey, are you discovering that "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" is a wise saying after your course

andrewjoseph

What BB is it, square, octalink, external bearing...?

I've read that it's not a good idea to grease square taper axles, and that they need a nip up after a ride or two following dismantling.

Is the BB running smooth? take the chain off and spin the cranks, does it sound rough, is it free spinning?

put a new BB in, if the creaking stops you have your answer, if not, you have a spare BB.

Have you checked the chainring bolts?

Jamey

biondino wrote:

Jamey, are you discovering that "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" is a wise saying after your course

Very much so, yes

in the long run I'm sure this will all be worthwhile but here, now, today, it's a pain in the ass.

andrewjoseph wrote:

What BB is it, square, octalink, external bearing...?

Square taper, which surprised me a bit. I thought Specialized would've used something at least a little better on the Tricross.

andrewjoseph wrote:

I've read that it's not a good idea to grease square taper axles, and that they need a nip up after a ride or two following dismantling.

I admit that I did grease the axles a fair bit but since then I've tightened the cranks as much as possible and can't really get them any tighter than they are now.

andrewjoseph wrote:

Is the BB running smooth? take the chain off and spin the cranks, does it sound rough, is it free spinning?

It was fine last weekend and when I spin the pedals backwards (by hand, when I'm off the bike) it feels perfectly smooth.

andrewjoseph wrote:

Have you checked the chainring bolts?

Not yet, although I didn't remove the rings from the cranks last weekend. And I don't have one of those chainring bolt holding things that you use on the reverse side of the bolt while you undo/tighten it.

But then again, if we want to get onto the subject of tools I haven't bought yet we could be here all day

Specialized Needs

Littigator wrote:

SBezza wrote:

Also try the headset, I was convinced I had a creak from the BB or seat area, but it eventually turned out to be the headset was a tiny bit loose. Since tightening it up, the bike is completely quiet.

I had the same thing, thought it was the BB, had it stripped and regreased and then realised it was the headset...which I still haven't done anything about DOH!

<AOL>Me too</AOL>
In my case, on my ancient mountain bike, I only realised it was the headset when I discovered there was play/movement at the front of the bike when the front brake was fully applied and the wheel wasn't moving (actually, to be honest, I didn't do anything until I got frightened by the wobbling when doing 25mph down Eltham Hill in the morning rush hour). Might be worth a check

I assume it is a sealed BB (is this the tricross?), so you can't clean that out. But isn't the bike quite new, anyhow? So that wouldn't be something to expect.

biondino wrote:

Jamey, are you discovering that "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" is a wise saying after your course

Must be a good course, they even provide extra homework

Stuart

Jamey

Just in reply to those people talking about the headset, I did check that on the way home last night and couldn't feel any play at all. I turned the front wheel sideways and tried to rock the bike back and forth and it seemed pretty solid to me, which is why I'm hesitant to go tightening the bolt any more than it already is.

Maybe if I get a quiet stretch of road and the noise is being predictable I'll give it a quick tighten just to see if it cures everything instantly, and if it doesn't I'll immediately loosen it back to where it was before, or something like that.

lost_in_thought

My fixed has a creak too, can't seem to work it out, but might well try greasing the seatpost/spds, I had thought it was the saddle at first, but it's still there when I stand up.

Is there a certain grease you should use? My brother is an engineer (the practical kind, not hte mathematical) and has loads of different ones, would one of them do?

SBezza

Jamey wrote:

Don't you have to be a bit careful of tightening headsets that don't really need tightening?

When you have tightened every other nut and bolt and had the cranks and BB checked, and it is the only thing remaining, it is wrth a try. You don't have to overtighten it, just check to see if there is any play and then tighten accordingly. Follow the steps on Park Tools and it should be fine.

Jamey

Well, yeah, I guess... But I've already checked it for play once, and there wasn't any.

toontra

With me the cause was the bike shop hadn't faced the bottom bracket shell on the frame properly when the bike was first built up. The squeaking (exactly as described by the OP) drove me nuts for months. I tried all the fixes mentioned above, none of which worked. Finally it went back to the shop and had the shell re-faced - problem sorted. I now have a silent ride, which is a beautiful thing on a Sunday morning!

Jamey

My BB is a sealed unit, square taper jobby, so it's not a facing issue.

Plus this wasn't happening until yesterday and I've had the bike for a few weeks now, commuting almost daily.

Jamey

Right, on tonight's journey home we have very little creaking but more of that knocking sound I mentioned and even a slight rattle or two.

Halfway back I readjusted the headset (didn't stop the knocking noise) and when I got home I checked the pedals were tight (they were). I also tried to make sure the cranks were tight but managed to shear off the metal adapter on my socket wrench, which is great. However before I managed to twist the metal it felt like the crank bolts were fine.

My workstand won't arrive until next week but I may just go and buy a load of tools tomorrow (crank puller, BB tool, maybe pedal spanner and possibly torque wrench) and try to reassemble everything even without the luxury of a proper stand, as this is driving me absolutely crazy.

Jamey

Nicklouse, if you're reading, I need your help (again, for the fourth time in a week)

biondino

Jamey wrote:

I also tried to make sure the cranks were tight but managed to shear off the metal adapter on my socket wrench, which is great.

Haha snap :oops:

dennisn

Not trying to add to your confusion but in my experience it SEEMS that all noises come from
the bottom bracket area and many times this turns out to be wrong. Try putting a drop or two of very light oil on any part of the bike that is bolted to another part(i.e. seat post
clamp and seat rails, stem and handlebars, things like that). Do this while out for a ride
and only oil one thing at a time, then ride a bit to see if the noise goes away, if not, stop and oil something else. Repeat until you can't find anything else to oil. Not saying that this will work but it's worth a try.

Dennis Noward

Bugly

Slow Downcp wrote:

Grease your seapost (including taking out the shim and greasing both side of that if it has one). It could be that - I had a similar noise on my Giant - seems to be a common issue.

Dont grease your seatpost if it is carbon BTW. The grease breaks down the the epoxy according to a bike manufacturer. SO Carbon on Carbon is ungreased.

There are special preparations that are used to INCREASE friction for such junctions - I believe Ritchey makes one.

Bugly

oh btw regardless of the bottom bracket used facing (making the two faces parallel and orthogonal to the bracket is important.

Tranced

I have similar noise (sharp "clack" on each stroke) which I believe is from BB area on a cheap roadie.
Only happens when I'm standing & really laying some effort into the peddaling. At first I thought the frame was cracking.
Gotten used to it now & take it to be the torgue of peddaling hard twisting the cheap frame at BB area so making the alu rub against the steel BB faceing. As it gives/ slips, albeit, a mm at a time, it gives off the "clack" sound.

1960ride

Jamey,

Here is some information that may help.

Squeaks and Creaks

Reasoning:
A bike is made up of many contact points all combined into one, if properly assembled you should not have any Squeaking or Creaking and if you do you should be able to isolate each section and figure out where the squeak is coming from by using an organized search pattern.

The bike only makes this noise when I ride it, I don’t have this problem when I test it bike on a stand.

You are not checking/isolating all contact points that is why.

You may think the problem is in the bottom bracket when it is really coming from another area. Just think of yourself putting stress on the bars while pedaling, the twisting forces go completely throughout the bike hitting all contact points as one. By isolating contact points you should be able to eliminate each point individually.

Contact points:
Each place metal contacts metal or another part
Each place you contact the bike, Pedals, seat, bars, brake levers.

Torque:
The twisting stress you put on one or many parts either directly or indirectly.
Hand connected to bars, feet connected to pedals, bars connected to the forks etc….
Troubleshooting squeaks and creaks:
Ensure your bike is clean, inspect your bike thoroughly.
Ensure all contact points are lubed.
Ensure all nuts and bolts have the proper torque.
If this cured the problem you are done if not move to where you think the problem is coming from.

BB: Is the BB cleaned lubed, did you properly torque the BB?
Frame: Is the BB properly faced and lubed? Did you check the cable guides on the bottom of the frame? This is a contact point as well.
Chain rings: Is there a light coat of grease between all metal parts, and are the chain ring bolts set at the proper torque?
Pedals: Are the pedal bearings properly lubed and in good working order? Are the pedals properly lubed and torqued to the crank arms? Is there damage to the pedal/cleat mating surface?
Cleats: Are the cleats in good condition?
Shoes: Are the cleats mounted to the shoes with a layer of lube before torquing the cleats to the shoes? This area is usually overlooked.


Alternate checks
Seat: Does the seat make a squeaking noise when you put pressure on the rails? Check the seat to rail points for loose fittings, if the seat is the cause you may need to replace it.
Seat rails: Check the seat rails for looks of rubbing, this is an indication the seat rails may be slipping in the clamp. Ensure there is a light coat of grease on the rails and clamp. Re-torque the seat to the seat post.
Seat post: Check the post for indications of rubbing and slippage at the clamp and where it is inserted to the frame. Re-lube with grease/carbon prep and reinstall.
Stem and spacers: Ensure there is a light coat of grease/carbon prep between all contact points. Torque all bolts to specifications. This means both sides of each spacer as well as inside each spacer. Remember all contact points.
Bars: Inspect bars for cracks; use a light coat of grease between stem and bars. Re-torque to specifications.
Break levers: Ensure you put a light coat of grease around the bands that hold the levers to the bars.
Wheels: Ensure the wheels have a light coat of grease between the skewers and frame and between the inside of the frame hub contact points.
Skewers: Ensure the skewers have a light coat of grease on all moving parts.

Cables: Yes they can have torque on them as well as rubbing the frame creating noises.
Did you lube the cable ends before inserting into the frame?

Other annoying things I have found that were obviously over looked or difficult to detect.

Computer magnet hitting the pick up while riding but not on a work stand.

Some cheaper hubs have rubber dust covers that can squeak when the wheel rotates.

Hitting the cable tip on the front mech with your shoe

Shoe laces hitting the crank or frame while pedaling

Zip ties hitting parts of the frame or vibrating if loose. Ensure they are tight and cut off the excess.

Spokes rubbing due to being loose or making noise at the hub insertion point in the hub.

Accessories:
Pumps
Bags
Lights

Hopefully this will help.

Jamey

I've taken off the cranks today, removed all grease from the holes, wiped excess grease off the axles, refitted the cranks properly with a torque wrench and without the chain and when I stand on each crank in turn (not sitting on the bike, just standing on a pedal as I hold the bike upright) I get a single loud creak (more like a clack or a crack sound) each time I stand on a pedal after standing on the opposite one.

It's tricky to explain but here's what I mean...

1) Standing on left pedal for the first time makes a sound.

2) Standing on left pedal a second time makes no sound.

3) Standing on right pedal after standing on left pedal makes a sound.

4) Standing on right pedal a second time makes no sound.

5) Standing on left pedal after standing on right pedal makes a sound.

Etc etc, I hope you can see what I mean.

Jamey

I've installed a new BB and the problem seems to have gone away.

andrewjoseph

I'll go out on a limb and suggest your BB was the problem.

Glad that's sorted!

Jamey

I think it was loose rather than being a dodgy BB but I've left the new one in anyway and will use the original as a spare if I ever need one.

The new BB felt like it had a lot more friction when turning the axle in my fingers, compared to the old one (well, I say 'old', it's four weeks but meh...)