Training hours per week - 4th/3rd cat riders?
BigDarbs
Posts: 132
Out of inerest what sort of training hours every week are 4th and 3rd cat riders doing out there?
I am aware of training quality against aimless quantity etc, I am just curious to see what sort of commitment other people put to it, especially in the real world of work, home etc.
I am aware of training quality against aimless quantity etc, I am just curious to see what sort of commitment other people put to it, especially in the real world of work, home etc.
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Anywhere between 5 and 15 hours per week is pretty typical.0
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Thats about what I thought. I raced mountain bikes at expert level for 10 years, so I had a feel for what amount of training got me through that, but I was interested to see if a similar time commitment would get me into the road racing pack!0
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As someone who went from 3rd to 2nd cat this year I'd say Alex is correct with 5 -15hrs. Although I only reached the dizzy heights of 15 hrs per week once or twice this year. Typical hours were 6-8 hrs. Also don't forget it depends how much fitness you bring to the 'table' and how you train (mostly moderately pace hard rides or slowish steady efforts) Someone who couldn't finish with a 4th cat bunch on a fairly easy non technical circuit may need a greater investment in training time. Assuming they can respond to changes in pace a rider who can average 23+mins in a 10mile flat TT should be fine on eight hours or less training time. Good luckBigDarbs wrote:Out of inerest what sort of training hours every week are 4th and 3rd cat riders doing out there?
I am aware of training quality against aimless quantity etc, I am just curious to see what sort of commitment other people put to it, especially in the real world of work, home etc.0 -
12-16 hours every week 200-260 miles of varying sorts - easy rides, single speed, chain gangs, turbo sessions. First year this year, amazing improvements.0
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Toks wrote:Assuming they can respond to changes in pace a rider who can average 23+mins in a 10mile flat TT should be fine on eight hours or less training time. Good luck
that works out as 26mph....how well placed would you be doing that on average?
I can average just over 20.5mph for 25 miles and that wasn't pushing too hard as it was the first stretch of a 50 mile ride and I was still aware that i had to get home.
17 Stone down to 12.5 now raring to get back on the bike!0 -
[/quote]Typical hours were 6-8 hrs. Also don't forget it depends how much fitness you bring to the 'table'[/quote]
That is a very good point, I raced (and obvioulsy did the training) for my mountain bike racing from 1989 until 2001, and one of the things I found since then is that with only a small increase in training after I stopped racing the endurance and speed came back relatively quickly. It is great to hear of someone who is doing real world training hours that at least come close to what I am doing! Cheers0 -
Quality versus quantity though is a factor. You can hammer away logging loads of training miles and training hours, but if you're not resting properly or training effectively a lot of it will be wasted, or 'junk miles'.
This year I've raced as a 4th and 3rd cat, not yet been dropped from the pack, but averaged about 4.5hrs a week. In the summer months I found if I did one TT a week, and one RR a week, there wasn't a lot of benefit from training every day inbetween.
The 26mph in the last post would be based on using aerobars. If you average 20-21mph for 25miles on a normal road bike on your own then you'll probably be fine in the pack in a 4th cat race at 24-25mph.0 -
I agree totally, I am a real fan of quality over quanitiy. I find I am fairly good at going out to do a planned session with specific aims, but on the other hand I need the balance of not feeling like I have to ride every day.0
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I would estimate that to stay in the bunch on a 3/4th cat road race, you need to be able to sustain enough power to complete a flat 10MTT in around 24 minutes riding a normal road bike with clip on tri bars in good conditions. I normally complete 10MTT's on such a bike between 25 30 to 26 30 and I have never managed to stay in the bunch for more than 1/2 way around a typical road race despite many attempts. The riders who tend to stay in the bunch to the end of the race tend to complete the local 10MTT in around 24 minutes whilst I post about 25 30 - 26 minutes on the same night. I need to sustain significantly more power before I can stay in the bunch.0
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Perhaps you need to sustain more power or perhaps you need to...tommy_tommy wrote:I would estimate that to stay in the bunch on a 3/4th cat road race, you need to be able to sustain enough power to complete a flat 10MTT in around 24 minutes riding a normal road bike with clip on tri bars in good conditions. I normally complete 10MTT's on such a bike between 25 30 to 26 30 and I have never managed to stay in the bunch for more than 1/2 way around a typical road race despite many attempts. The riders who tend to stay in the bunch to the end of the race tend to complete the local 10MTT in around 24 minutes whilst I post about 25 30 - 26 minutes on the same night. I need to sustain significantly more power before I can stay in the bunch.
1. Become better at drafting other riders
2. Position yourself in the pack better (front half)
3. Stay alert (look up) by anticipating and responding to attacks
4. Do some anaerobic training
5. Stop mindlessly chasing or attacking at the front of the pack
6. Stop being the one who helps close gaps by racing smartly and letting others do the work
7. Read the race better (beleive me there's usually a well established pattern)
8. Warm up correctly with a few jumps
9. Stick with it and race more often : practice practice
10. Follow experienced or better riders in the pack (especially those in the bunch that finish without too much stress)0 -
I don't think TT times give that good an indicator as to how well you'll do in a road race. You have to be able to cope with accelerations and recover quickly in a road race, something you won't be doing in a TT.0
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i'm looking to race next summer after a good sollid spout of winter training, any advice for the training/my first ever RR?0
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I know it's oft repeated, but for anyone thinking of road racing the best advice is to join a club and go on group rides0
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i've heard that around, but...then what...?0
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I gotta disagree, they're an excellent indicator assuming you adhere to the 10 points I mentioned. Generally you won't find many 1st cat who can't beat 23min for a flat 10 mile TT and if you can't ride evens for a 10 you're very unlikely to go the distance in an undulating 3rd cat race.Ste_S wrote:I don't think TT times give that good an indicator as to how well you'll do in a road race.0 -
Start with the slow club run and when you are comfortable with the pace / distance look to move up to the faster club run or join in with other riders who are racing next season on faster training rides (aka "chaingangs"). Plenty of clubs have a couple of midweek chaingangs through the winter evenings or maybe indoor turbo sessions at the club room.JoeyHalloran wrote:i've heard that around, but...then what...?
All the while you are riding in a group, you'll be learning how to ride on a wheel and how to ride in a bunch which will be invaluable when you try your hand at racing.
Ask the more experienced riders to find out what training they do and any tips they can give you for racing.0 -
i've been riding in a bunch for a while, i am comfortable cycling close to other riders, thats no problem. I was just curious about any licensing/fees/signing up etc... that needs to be done. I normally cycle quite a lot (although this summer a knee injury has kept me off the bike for a good 6 weeks or so
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Cool, I'm not sure if your just sharing info or making a specific enquiry. All you getting in to racing/license signing stuff can all be found on the British Cycling Website. Sorry to hear about the knee thats a bummer. Glad your up and running againJoeyHalloran wrote:i've been riding in a bunch for a while, i am comfortable cycling close to other riders, thats no problem. I was just curious about any licensing/fees/signing up etc... that needs to be done. I normally cycle quite a lot (although this summer a knee injury has kept me off the bike for a good 6 weeks or so ).
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Ok, so you need a British Cycling Silver membership and a full racing licence - it was around £65 for this year. Not much point in getting it before January now unless you plan to ride any of the winter series races.JoeyHalloran wrote:I was just curious about any licensing/fees/signing up etc.0 -
Can it be paid for on the day for these? And if so how much would I be looking at for each event?Bronzie wrote:Not much point in getting it before January now unless you plan to ride any of the winter series races.0 -
As far as I know, yes you can get a "day licence" for any BC race. Normally £10 for non-members but for some categories of race it's free for BC Silver or Gold members:
http://www.britishcycling.org.uk/web/si ... icence.asp0 -
ah, day license sound good for me to test the water of road racing. I can't wait till next summer 0
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I think Tok's advice was spot on. I did my first races this year (admittedly LVRC but guess 4th cat equivalent) Started 5, finished in the bunch twice. 2 failures were due to stupid solo off the front attacks (just for the hell of it) which destroyed me to the extent that when they caught me I couldn't hold a wheel as they went past and one was the day after doing my best ever 25TT and clearly I hadn't recovered. The other 2 I was a bit smarter, stayed near the front, no chasing down breaks, followed wheels of good riders and finsihed quite comfortable. Never done a flat 10 but have done 1.01 for 25 and my FTP is 3.7Watts/kg if that helps. Trained about 6 hours a week through the summer, dropping off now though.0
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what about on race day/tactics? anything a newbie should know other than ride sensibly and ride hard?0
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That could fill an entire book and perhaps should be a thread on its own.JoeyHalloran wrote:what about on race day/tactics? anything a newbie should know other than ride sensibly and ride hard?0 -
JoeyHalloran wrote:what about on race day/tactics? anything a newbie should know other than ride sensibly and ride hard?
Toks has pretty much already covered it:Toks wrote:1. Become better at drafting other riders
2. Position yourself in the pack better (front half)
3. Stay alert (look up) by anticipating and responding to attacks
4. Do some anaerobic training
5. Stop mindlessly chasing or attacking at the front of the pack
6. Stop being the one who helps close gaps by racing smartly and letting others do the work
7. Read the race better (beleive me there's usually a well established pattern)
8. Warm up correctly with a few jumps
9. Stick with it and race more often : practice practice
10. Follow experienced or better riders in the pack (especially those in the bunch that finish without too much stress)
You'll probably find you get dropped in your first race because you either struggle with maintaining a good position in the bunch or you just haven't got the necessary fitness to respond when the pace goes up suddenly. It happens to most people in their first few races, but with perserverence you'll improve each race and if you race smart, you'll be in there with a shout at the finish line.0 -
I think having a few years in your legs helps. It is hard to be competitive in your first year. The previous mountain biking should give you a head start.
I do about 6-7 hours if I'm lucky.
In my first year I chased everything, in my second I sat too far back, suffered from the elastic effect and was too cautious. Now I sit pretty in about 5th, and try and make the winning move happen. If someone else breaks, my position allows plenty of time to spot it and react without desparation. All to often someone else will chase and you can grab their wheel.
It's a fun learning curve.0 -
How large are your average road races? are there any particular ones that a good for beginers or is it just find the closest one to where you live?0
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Fields vary depending on popularity of the event, the weather etc but it's rare that there would be less than 40 on the start line with a maximum rider limit for many road circuits of 80.
For an entry to racing, search the British Cycling events calendar for C+ category races as these are often handicapped in some way to give novices a bit of a head start. I'd also recommend starting off with circuit races (ie on purpose built circuits like Hog Hill, Hillingdon) because if you do get dropped, you will probably be able to have a breather and try and join back in when the bunch laps you (you won't be elegible for points or prize money of course).
4th Cat only and "Go Race" events will be a bit easier than Cat 3/4 races, but the standard or riding can be a bit of an eye opener at times. Not that all 3rd cats are the best bike handlers by any means.0 -
wow! really can't wait for next summer! Thanks for all you help guys!0
