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Changes to the layout?

nicklousenicklouse Posts: 81,520 Lives Here
edited January 2009 in The bottom bracket
It has been suggested that we may have a few changes to the layout of the Road forums.

For example merging Campaign and Soapbox? sorry but they both seem to be basically the same?

Also I see a possible need for a Buying advice area for sorting out the shiny new things and also a Workshopish area for sorting all those Greasy issues?

One thing I don't want to do is make more sub divisions.

Please note this is just for ideas and may or may not happen.

But what i am looking for is ideas on what you users might find useful.
"Do not follow where the path may lead, Go instead where there is no path, and Leave a Trail."
Parktools :?:SheldonBrown
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  • Good ideas, can we have a specific place for "Doping Whinges", so other threads don't get hi-jacked?
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  • robbarkerrobbarker Posts: 1,367
    it's no secret that I'm very much in favour of this.

    Road Gear and Knowhow contains an awful lot of threads that amount to retail buying questions and suggestions. Nothing wrong with that, of course, we all love chatting about new toys (!), but it does mean that the mechanical-type threads do get a bit lost in the noise.

    The result of this is that the same technical queries (and buying ones come to that) are repeated over and over again because it's difficult to find the last time it was asked.

    Seperating the "which pair of wheels should I buy" type post from the "my rim is worn out how do I lace a new one on" sort of question makes perfect sense to me - buying and maintenance are two seperate topic areas and deserve seperate sections here.

    As Nick has aluded to, there are underused / overlapping headings that could be merged to make room for the extra topic without overwhelming the forum overall.
  • spen666spen666 Posts: 17,709
    nicklouse wrote:
    It...

    For example merging Campaign and Soapbox? sorry but they both seem to be basically the same?

    ...

    Campaign and soapbox the same?

    Well one is for campaigning on cycling related issues

    The other is for rants, ie soapbox type issues


    Campaign was set up years ago to stop the general rants getting in the way of positive cycling campaign issues. Previously there was just one section. It diluted both campaign issues and general rants. The campaign section serves a purpose if it is used properly - ie for campaigning issues and not just for arguments
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  • spen666spen666 Posts: 17,709
    nicklouse wrote:
    It has been suggested that we may have a few changes to the layout of the Road forums.

    For example merging Campaign and Soapbox? sorry but they both seem to be basically the same?

    Also I see a possible need for a Buying advice area for sorting out the shiny new things and also a Workshopish area for sorting all those Greasy issues?

    One thing I don't want to do is make more sub divisions.

    Please note this is just for ideas and may or may not happen.

    But what i am looking for is ideas on what you users might find useful.


    why post this in cake stop when it is about the sections EXCLUDING cake stop. Those who use only campaign or soapbox, or know how etc will not see this post. Thus you are not going to get the views of those who use those sections

    Remember, if it ain't broke don't fix it. It was tinkering around that caused so many to desert here when the bikeradar site took over from C+
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  • nicklousenicklouse Posts: 81,520 Lives Here
    spen666 thanks for your points.

    Why post it in the Cake stop? it is the closest fora to a "general" one where else would you put it?

    and thanks for you views on Campaign and soap box.

    and all this is is feeling things out if you read the post.

    People have asked about changes so i am asking.

    what would you like to improve on the forum?
    "Do not follow where the path may lead, Go instead where there is no path, and Leave a Trail."
    Parktools :?:SheldonBrown
  • BronzieBronzie Posts: 4,927
    Good ideas, can we have a specific place for "Doping Whinges", so other threads don't get hi-jacked?
    We had one - it was called "Pharmacy" - hardly anyone used it and hence it was merged back into "Race". You can't talk about procycling without talking about doping - it's like talking about cricket without mentioning the weather!

    I still think the "Women's Racing" and possibly the "Track" sections could be dropped. Because they get so few posts, hardly anyone visits them and everything discussed in them could easily fit in "Race".
  • robbarkerrobbarker Posts: 1,367
    I agree about the women's racing topic.

    Nicole Cooke's success at the worlds was discussed (quite rightly in my view) in race. Womens's racing is racing too, and it almost demeans it to give it tis own topic, thus inferring it isn't fit to be discussed alongside mens racing in the generic race topic.
  • spen666spen666 Posts: 17,709
    edited October 2008
    nicklouse wrote:
    spen666 thanks for your points.

    Why post it in the Cake stop? it is the closest fora to a "general" one where else would you put it?

    and thanks for you views on Campaign and soap box.

    and all this is is feeling things out if you read the post.

    People have asked about changes so i am asking.

    what would you like to improve on the forum?

    Try additionally posting the thread in the forums you are likely to affect would be sensible. Otherwise you end up with decisions being made about sections by people who do not use the sections and as a result you alienate more people from this website. Both cycle chat and YACF are the result of interference with the original C+ website without the general agreement of the users

    It would also be wise to learn the history of why there was set up two fora campaign and soapbox by C+
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  • Eddy SEddy S Posts: 1,013
    Bronzie wrote:
    I still think the "Women's Racing" and possibly the "Track" sections could be dropped. Because they get so few posts, hardly anyone visits them and everything discussed in them could easily fit in "Race".
    robbarker wrote:
    I agree about the women's racing topic.
    I disagree. Although I was unsure at first, I think it’s been useful having these sections because women’s and track racing were being totally swamped by Pro Tour/pro racing/doping discussions.

    The biggest problem is that forum users just can’t be bothered to scroll down the page to use the areas. :roll:

    Now, what we could really do with is a separate Lance Armstrong section to save the clutter. Or maybe just rename the Race section... :twisted:
    I’m a sprinter – I warmed up yesterday.
  • NervexProfNervexProf Posts: 4,202
    nicklouse wrote:
    It has been suggested that we may have a few changes to the layout of the Road forums.

    For example merging Campaign and Soapbox? sorry but they both seem to be basically the same?

    Also I see a possible need for a Buying advice area for sorting out the shiny new things and also a Workshopish area for sorting all those Greasy issues?

    One thing I don't want to do is make more sub divisions.

    Please note this is just for ideas and may or may not happen.

    But what i am looking for is ideas on what you users might find useful.

    Nick,
    Some good ideas here, thanks.

    I would go along with the idea of merging Campaign with Soapbox - both attracting reformists and idea change folk.

    The 'Workshop' forum could embrace both 'Beginners and Road Know How' - this avoiding further sub-divisions.

    I would prefer that we retain the 'Track Racing' forum - albeit somewhat specialist as over time many will entertain, if not try the track off season, indoors.

    As to 'Women's Racing' we should keep it - it would be a backward step to merge it into 'Race' - the girls need their own corner of the world - we could rename it 'Girls on a bike' that would encourage more visits....no?

    Perhaps a poll on forum visit priorities would reveal more preferences?
    Common sense in an uncommon degree is what the world calls wisdom
  • Can we have a Lance Armstrong subforum?


    :)
  • Rich-TiRich-Ti Posts: 1,831
    I rarely read anything other than the 'Beginners', 'Sportives & Road Rides' and 'Gear & Know-How' forums and ended up here purely by accident.

    I agree that buying advice should be separated out from the Gear & Know-How section... but then I had a recent question regarding why should I select to use one set of wheels over another, which kind of still spans both 'Buying Advice' and 'Greasy Issues' as I wanted to know the +ve's & -ve's depending on the type of riding I'm doing (race Vs training etc.). To my mind that's a little more than just buying advice and is more 'Kit Selection' as I was more interested in where I would gain benefits if I had both sets of wheels available to me.

    I don't know enough about the other areas of the forum as I don't currently use them.
  • Rich-TiRich-Ti Posts: 1,831
    How about:

    C+ and Pro Cycling Office
    Cake Stop
    Beginners
    Race
    Workshop
    Bike, Kit & Components - Options & Buying Advice
    Training
    Sportives & Road Rides
    Track, Women's Race & Special Interest
    Tour & Expedition
    Campaign & Soap Box

    14 categories >> 11, and a more logical order IMO

    :shock:
  • CorianderCoriander Posts: 1,326
    As a woman I would like to see the separation between women's and men's racing abolished - to my mind it just perpetuates the notion that women's racing is not a valid part of racing and needs to be considered and handled separately.
  • COVECCOVEC Posts: 213
    Nick,

    I think the Forum Index page could be updated, it is quite clunky having to click each genre (Road/MTB ect.) to get to see the various boards (Cake Stop/Race ect.).

    Most users will have at least IE7 or Firefox so they will utilise the tab functions, with this in mind having each of the boards displayed below the genre without having to click it would speed up the forum browsing experience.

    The commuters forum is a great example of having to navigate through 2 clicks to get to the single board threads.

    I hope this makes sense

    COVEC
  • redddraggonredddraggon Posts: 10,862
    COVEC wrote:
    Nick,

    I think the Forum Index page could be updated, it is quite clunky having to click each genre (Road/MTB ect.) to get to see the various boards (Cake Stop/Race ect.).

    Most users will have at least IE7 or Firefox so they will utilise the tab functions, with this in mind having each of the boards displayed below the genre without having to click it would speed up the forum browsing experience.

    The commuters forum is a great example of having to navigate through 2 clicks to get to the single board threads.

    I hope this makes sense

    COVEC

    COVEC, I agree wholeheartedly.....it actually used to be that way, god knows why they changed it - what were they thinking?
    I like bikes...

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  • Rich-TiRich-Ti Posts: 1,831
    Don't forget us Mac users on Safari though eh?! :roll: :wink::lol:
  • Rich-Ti wrote:
    Don't forget us Mac users on Safari though eh?! :roll: :wink::lol:

    You actually use Safari & haven't swapped to Firefox/Opera/anything else? :-O

    RBIT[/b]
  • nicklousenicklouse Posts: 81,520 Lives Here
    COVEC
    sorry i must be doing things differently, it is the same number of clicks for all forums. OK in the MTB and the Road you have to scroll a bit as there are so many sub fora.


    Rich-Ti
    Nice ideas but i dont think the two offices will get merged but....

    Like i said at the start this is just trying to get info on how you guys may want the layout to be or how you see it working better.

    What would you prefer changes you want or changes that just happen?

    And for all you longstanding members lets say we dont change any of the sub fora, what about making it a bit easier for a n00b to understand the purpose of it by improving the info on the second line?
    "Do not follow where the path may lead, Go instead where there is no path, and Leave a Trail."
    Parktools :?:SheldonBrown
  • scwxx77scwxx77 Posts: 1,470
    Can we have a Lance Armstrong subforum?


    :)

    Yeah. It would make it much easier to ignore posts about him!

    :wink:
    Winner: PTP Vuelta 2007 :wink:
  • robbarkerrobbarker Posts: 1,367
    nicklouse wrote:

    And for all you longstanding members lets say we dont change any of the sub fora, what about making it a bit easier for a n00b to understand the purpose of it by improving the info on the second line?

    OK, but there is still a need fdor a separate workshop toipc in the road forum, and probably not one as part of the commuting forum. It's disjointed at the moment. You just have to take a look at "another cycling forum" to see the beauty of simplicity and clarity of thought.
  • AdieuAdieu Posts: 83
    Coriander wrote:
    As a woman I would like to see the separation between women's and men's racing abolished - to my mind it just perpetuates the notion that women's racing is not a valid part of racing and needs to be considered and handled separately.

    I'm not a woman, but I agree.

    There's way too many sub divisions, it separates the community.
  • scwxx77 wrote:
    Can we have a Lance Armstrong subforum?


    :)

    Yeah. It would make it much easier to ignore posts about him!

    :wink:
    my thoughts entirely.
  • Big Red SBig Red S Posts: 26,890
    Rich-Ti wrote:
    I agree that buying advice should be separated out from the Gear & Know-How section... but then I had a recent question regarding why should I select to use one set of wheels over another, which kind of still spans both 'Buying Advice' and 'Greasy Issues' as I wanted to know the +ve's & -ve's depending on the type of riding I'm doing (race Vs training etc.). To my mind that's a little more than just buying advice and is more 'Kit Selection' as I was more interested in where I would gain benefits if I had both sets of wheels available to me.

    What is buying advice if not wanting the +ves and -ves depending on riding style? That, to me, is exactly the kind of topic I'd put in a 'Buying' section, rather than a 'Workshop' one.

    Coriander wrote:
    As a woman I would like to see the separation between women's and men's racing abolished - to my mind it just perpetuates the notion that women's racing is not a valid part of racing and needs to be considered and handled separately.

    The general, if weak, argument in favour of the split is that new female members come along, see their own section and decide that women's riding must therefore be taken seriously by this community.
  • Rich-TiRich-Ti Posts: 1,831
    Big Red S wrote:
    Rich-Ti wrote:
    I agree that buying advice should be separated out from the Gear & Know-How section... but then I had a recent question regarding why should I select to use one set of wheels over another, which kind of still spans both 'Buying Advice' and 'Greasy Issues' as I wanted to know the +ve's & -ve's depending on the type of riding I'm doing (race Vs training etc.). To my mind that's a little more than just buying advice and is more 'Kit Selection' as I was more interested in where I would gain benefits if I had both sets of wheels available to me.

    What is buying advice if not wanting the +ves and -ves depending on riding style? That, to me, is exactly the kind of topic I'd put in a 'Buying' section, rather than a 'Workshop' one.quote]
    My comment wasn't suggesting that such a topic should go in 'workshop' - hence the 'Kit Selection' suggestion :roll: :wink:
  • andy_wrxandy_wrx Posts: 3,396
    I think there definitely need to be different headings for 'what should I buy?' and 'how do I fix it?' which are currently mixed together in Beginners and Know How
    (with some specific ones about which turbo/rollers/etc to buy in in Training - but that seems fair enough as they are training tools).

    But there seem to be quite a few 'what should I buy?' posts in Office, which I'd assumed was for comments about the mag, but others seem to see as a place to ask the mag journos questions directly.

    Yes please merge Women's Racing into Racing, agree with the points above, it is discrimatory at the moment.

    And merge Soapbox and Campaign - perhaps the intention was to have different sections for whinges and legitimate campaigns, but which category something fits into depends very much on your viewpoint !

    On C+, weren't there separate sections for talking about Pro-racing (as a spectator or fan) and actually racing yourself (be it TT'ing, 3/4 cat racing or track) ?
    The problem was that there were lots of posts in there about sportives and then big arguments as to whether a sportive was a race or not : at least now there is a section explicitly titled Sportives and Road Rides...
  • COVECCOVEC Posts: 213
    nicklouse wrote:
    COVEC
    sorry i must be doing things differently, it is the same number of clicks for all forums. OK in the MTB and the Road you have to scroll a bit as there are so many sub fora.


    You misunderstand me(very easy I know with the difficulties of written word and my poor grasp of my mother tongue). It is the click to get to the sub-fora that is clunky, it means extra navigation, I think the browsing experience would be smoother if all the sub-fora were on display permanently under their respective heading.

    COVEC
  • feelfeel Posts: 800
    looking for a riding buddy section ? As in this THREAD
    We are born with the dead:
    See, they return, and bring us with them.
  • nicklousenicklouse Posts: 81,520 Lives Here
    Ok.

    we have taken some of these ideas and will put some ideas out there in the next few days.
    "Do not follow where the path may lead, Go instead where there is no path, and Leave a Trail."
    Parktools :?:SheldonBrown
  • After reviewing others suggestions i recommend you leave it the same :D

    Or maybe get rid of road beginners as the issues there are covered in gear/know-how, commuting or cake-shop already :wink:

    And not trying to offend Coriander but men's and women's racing are different sports with different events so seperate threads seem to make sense (i'm all for equal rights but ya don't getg to many women racing against men in the pro peleton) #



    *IMHO*
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