I agree with Chris Boardman
sing_for_absolution
Posts: 1,908
Comments
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I agree with everything bar the 'he can win the Tour comment". For a start to not race for 3 years in your mid to late thirties gives you a very large mountain to climb. The day to day recovery that a GT contender needs is hard to build up and very easy to lose and a 6-9 month training programme might not be enough to build this up again.
All this assumes, of course, that Astana get an invite to the Tour next year.0 -
I don't get this argument.
Was George Foreman's return to boxing bad for the sport? Nope.
Was Jordan's return to the NBA bad for basketball? Nope.
Was Martina Navratilova's return bad for tennis? Nope.
Was Mohammed Ali's return bad for boxing? Nope.
In every case, it brought more exposure to the sport, more money and more opportunities to future athletes in that sport. And in Jordan's case, he'd left amid a lot fo controversy (gambling) yet his return still ended up being positive for the sport. And Lance is doing his return not only following by the rules but going a step further to make himself subject to testing by Dr. Catlin and posting all his test results online!
How is that bad for the sport? It says that even one of the greatest/most successful riders of all time does not feel above the anti-soping rules and is trying to set a precedent of unparalled transparency and scrutiny (Well, with a few riders from Garmin joining him in the publication of results, but they only do it with the restriction that an "expert" must be found to interpret the results). Seriously, what's wrong with that?0 -
donrhummy wrote:I don't get this argument.
Was George Foreman's return to boxing bad for the sport? Nope.
Was Jordan's return to the NBA bad for basketball? Nope.
Was Martina Navratilova's return bad for tennis? Nope.
Was Mohammed Ali's return bad for boxing? Nope.
In every case, it brought more exposure to the sport, more money and more opportunities to future athletes in that sport. And in Jordan's case, he'd left amid a lot fo controversy (gambling) yet his return still ended up being positive for the sport. And Lance is doing his return not only following by the rules but going a step further to make himself subject to testing by Dr. Catlin and posting all his test results online!
How is that bad for the sport? It says that even one of the greatest/most successful riders of all time does not feel above the anti-soping rules and is trying to set a precedent of unparalled transparency and scrutiny (Well, with a few riders from Garmin joining him in the publication of results, but they only do it with the restriction that an "expert" must be found to interpret the results). Seriously, what's wrong with that?
I dont think its bad for the sport either id still hope that Bertie whips him next year mind you.Doesnt matter what Lance says or does some folks just cant take to him , i suspect its due to his domination of the Tour and his lack of racing in other events and the fact he is American.If there is one thing a lot of Europeans are good at its disliking Americans intensely.
cheers
MGGasping - but somehow still alive !0 -
I don't agree with Boardman at all, nor do I agree with anybody else who thinks it's "sad" that Armstrong wants to ride at the top level again. Why shouldn't he want to do that and why should that be to anybody else's dismay? I think Boardman's comments don't really make a lot of sense; why does winning the tour once, twice or seven times have any bearing on why Lance should or shouldn't return to the sport? If he can still do it and he still loves it, who has the right to wave a hand and say: "hey, you can't do this - cycling's moved on."
Just like anybody else, Lance is allowed to ride his bike and race it. If cycling had truly "moved on" people would not care either way. There wouldn't be this debate.0 -
Could that perhaps have any thing to do with the US`s quest for global dominance, it`s illegal invasion of other countries, it`s subversion of democratic governments in order to install military dictatorships and puppet regimes, it`s refusal to be bound by international treaties on such issues as chemical and biological warfare and climate change, it`s kidnap and torture of foreign nationals and so on? Perhaps Europeans just don`t have much time for religious extremists, Republicans, gun- nuts, red necks and white supremacists?Moray Gub wrote:If there is one thing a lot of Europeans are good at its disliking Americans intensely.
Whatever, any such dislike is vastly over-shadowed by the `Freedom Fries` hatred of all things French shared by many in the USA.
Do you know of any French-based sites selling anti-American merchandise to compare with the one below? I dont. Unfortunately this site is just one of many...
http://www.cafepress.com/rightwingstuff/1333790 -
aurelio wrote:
Could that perhaps have any thing to do with the US`s quest for global dominance, it`s illegal invasion of other countries, it`s subversion of democratic governments in order to install military dictatorships and puppet regimes, it`s refusal to be bound by international treaties on such issues as chemical and biological warfare and climate change, it`s kidnap and torture of foreign nationals and so on? Perhaps Europeans just don`t have much time for religious extremists, Republicans, gun- nuts, red necks and white supremacists?Moray Gub wrote:If there is one thing a lot of Europeans are good at its disliking Americans intensely.
Whatever, any such dislike is vastly over-shadowed by the `Freedom Fries` hatred of all things French shared by many in the USA.
Do you know of any French-based sites selling anti-American merchandise to compare with the one below? I dont. Unfortunately this site is just one of many...
http://www.cafepress.com/rightwingstuff/133379
You speak as if European governments havent done any of the things above. Hell we were subverting legitamate governments and installing puppet regimes while Americans were having fistfights at the OK Caral.
cheers
MGGasping - but somehow still alive !0 -
aurelio wrote:
Could that perhaps have any thing to do with the US`s quest for global dominance, it`s illegal invasion of other countries, it`s subversion of democratic governments in order to install military dictatorships and puppet regimes, it`s refusal to be bound by international treaties on such issues as chemical and biological warfare and climate change, it`s kidnap and torture of foreign nationals and so on? Perhaps Europeans just don`t have much time for religious extremists, Republicans, gun- nuts, red necks and white supremacists?Moray Gub wrote:If there is one thing a lot of Europeans are good at its disliking Americans intensely.
Whatever, any such dislike is vastly over-shadowed by the `Freedom Fries` hatred of all things French shared by many in the USA.
Do you know of any French-based sites selling anti-American merchandise to compare with the one below? I dont. Unfortunately this site is just one of many...
http://www.cafepress.com/rightwingstuff/133379
This whole thing is completely off topic, but, you do know that GW Bush lost the popular vote in America but won the electoral vote. That means more than 50% of people were smart enough to know that he was doing a poor job of running the government. Don't hold all of us accountable for what our government does, expecially when we didn't vote for him/them.0 -
donrhummy wrote:aurelio wrote:
Could that perhaps have any thing to do with the US`s quest for global dominance, it`s illegal invasion of other countries, it`s subversion of democratic governments in order to install military dictatorships and puppet regimes, it`s refusal to be bound by international treaties on such issues as chemical and biological warfare and climate change, it`s kidnap and torture of foreign nationals and so on? Perhaps Europeans just don`t have much time for religious extremists, Republicans, gun- nuts, red necks and white supremacists?Moray Gub wrote:If there is one thing a lot of Europeans are good at its disliking Americans intensely.
Whatever, any such dislike is vastly over-shadowed by the `Freedom Fries` hatred of all things French shared by many in the USA.
Do you know of any French-based sites selling anti-American merchandise to compare with the one below? I dont. Unfortunately this site is just one of many...
http://www.cafepress.com/rightwingstuff/133379
This whole thing is completely off topic, but, you do know that GW Bush lost the popular vote in America but won the electoral vote. That means more than 50% of people were smart enough to know that he was doing a poor job of running the government. Don't hold all of us accountable for what our government does, expecially when we didn't vote for him/them.
That can happen in the States though given your electoral college system ,Its very rare a government gets more than 50% of the popular vote in the UK in fact its only happened once in the last 100 or so years 1931. Anyway back to Lance........:-)Gasping - but somehow still alive !0 -
i admire his balls for coming back from cancer and his mental toughness i just dont like him as a person american or not an if he wants to do the tour again fair play too him `and yes the ropes werent tight enough `
cheesy quaver0 -
Looking at the official figures, in 2004 more than 50% of those voting still supported Bush and his goons in the Republican party, 59,841, 499 people voting for Bush and 56, 382, 976 people voting for Kerry. This despite the illegal invasion of Iraq, the way the Republicans stole the previous election and so on!donrhummy wrote:This whole thing is completely off topic, but, you do know that GW Bush lost the popular vote in America but won the electoral vote. That means more than 50% of people were smart enough to know that he was doing a poor job of running the government. Don't hold all of us accountable for what our government does, expecially when we didn't vote for him/them.
I know that a lot of people are opposed to the Republicans for one reason or another but few seem to do very much to counter them, the Democratic party included. (Just look at the way they rolled over when Bush stole the 2004 election!). Whatever opposition does exist I have a feeling the US will return the Republicans to power once again this year. :roll: :evil:
In any case, as in the UK, is there all that much difference between the `choices` on offer? To quote Bill Hicks:
I'll show you politics in America. Here it is, right here. "I think the puppet on the right shares my beliefs." "I think the puppet on the left is more to my liking." "Hey, wait a minute, there's one guy holding out both puppets!" "Shut up! Go back to bed, America. Your government is in control. Here's Love Connection. Watch this and get fat and stupid. By the way, keep drinking beer, you fu-king morons."0 -
But that hardly legitimised the actions of the US today! Looking at history European powers were hated by many for their action as well, so again, it is hardly possible to claim that Anti-Americanism is misplaced or does not have a historical precedent!Moray Gub wrote:we were subverting legitamate governments and installing puppet regimes while Americans were having fistfights at the OK Caral.
Anyhow, let`s here it for those relatively few Americans who are actively fighting the current move towards tyranny. Here`s one!
http://www.chomsky.info/0 -
And to add to the political discussion here, anyone actually think that the current UK Labour Government was elected by a majority, that a majority of the European population want this Lisbon Treaty and that there's any goverment in Africa or Asia that takes a blind bit of notice about "Human Rights"?
We Europeans don't have much time for religious extremists, be it "God" or "Allah" they claim to follow, we're not too keen on Russia invading Georgia, Chechens murdering schoolchildren, Saddam Hussein gasing Kurds, (Insert Name) in Africa embezzling money, buying themselves & their wives & cronies Mercs, murdering political and tribal opponents, letting their population die of starvation and preventable/treatable diseases whilst they buy said Mercs or whatever military hardware the Russians & Chinese care to sell them either. The list is sadly endless here!
As for hating the French, hatred probably too strong a term for it, but who likes the garlic-smelling, cheeses-eating surrender-monkeys anyway?
As has been said, back to Lance.
I've just been listening to "Lincs FM", my local radio station.
It's just announced on it's hourly news bulletin, that Lance will be riding a stage race in Australia in January as a start to his comeback, his comback is to rasie awareness of testicular cancer.
Now, Bertie's victory in Spain, did that get any mention?
No
His victory in Italy?
Nope
Victor of Men's Olympic RR?
No mention there.
Have they ever even mentioned any bike race outside of the Lincoln Grand Prix, Tour de France, Tour of Britain (As & when it's in Lincolnshire) or any of the Olympic events we've won?
They've certainly never, ever mentioned The Tour Down Under before!
His return is big news, his return will fill newspapers and not just those that do devote more than a few column inches to sports not involving balls or horses.
Whether he falls flat on his face (Which for him will be coming anywhere but first come Paris!) or whether he does get Maillot Jaune huit, the papers will be filled with the races he's in.
Raising awareness of Testicular cancer? Felt your goolies today lads?Remember that you are an Englishman and thus have won first prize in the lottery of life.0 -
I think that his return may well detract from everyone else in the sport as all the focus will be on one man. For instance, if he races and comes sixth then there may well be more talk about Lance than the man who won. Then again as the poster above says, cycle sport is barely covered in the UK, so there will probably be a net increase in coverage. For instance, what proportion will have heard of the tour down under before this week and after Lance races there? In the long term hopefully him racing in these events will bring more exposure to these events and the wider racing calendar which can only be a good thing for cycling long term.
As to the man himself, i am not a fan at all. I dont like his lack of respect for other people which is at odds with cancer funds raising hero title. I just think that he has to be in the middle of everything. Then again, if he is raising a lot of money then i should be more sympathetic.
As to the US hating. I am not a great fan of the US but its not easy being the one whose movements affect other people the most. Its not perfect but as superpowers go i think its the best the world has had? (Sorry, going O/T here). :oops:0 -
The only reason my girlfriend knows who he is is because he went out with Sheryl Crow, and more recently Kate Hudson. Why does he have to return to cycling to promote cancer when people know him as a celebrity as well as or instead of a cyclist.
I completely agree with Boardman, it is a bad thing. Everyone got bored whilst he was racing, and now he's coming back? Boring boring boring.0 -
Sorry but what is all this politcial rubbish? This is a cycling forum. I agree with some o fthe views expressed here but this is not the place to discuss.
To return to the topic. The challenge for Armstrong is obvious. he wants to prove how good a cyclist he really was. Whether or not you think he doped, I don't think he'll do it this time. I think he'll do well but am hoping for Andy Schleck to come along and steal the show.
He seems to be now playing down his TDF chances so the winning stuff might have just been for the publicity.
I'll be pretty annoyed if he's sitting 15 mins off the pace and the media focus is not on the leaders.Scottish and British...and a bit French0 -
If Lance Armstrong is sad for choosing to make a come back then by the same token so am I for riding again after a 25 year lay off. I would love to be competitive again and to be honest that's is my objective. If he's riding his bike and training hard then it's inevitable that he wants to test himself and what better way than attempting another TDF win.
Most riders give up because that can no longer be competitive and win races. I think it's bloody marvellous that someone who has nothing to prove is going to challenge himself once again. As for overshadowing other riders; well it's up to them to make a name for themselves either through the strength of their personality or their riding.
Who's to say that in a couple of years time Chris Boardman won't want to make a come back himself. Those words will come back to haunt him. No Chris if Lance is sad then so is everyone else who wants to challenge themselves once more in making a come back.0 -
st68 said "i admire his balls for coming back from cancer and his mental toughness i just dont like him as a person american or not an if he wants to do the tour again fair play too him `and yes the ropes werent tight enough"
Shouldn't that be "ball"?
To be honest, I think it's great. I also had testicular cancer and I'm running a LIVESTRONG event on 18th January, the same day as he starts in the Tour Down Under. I'm hoping the publicity puts a few extra dollars in the buckets. It's unlikely Boardman's name would, despite his being an accomplished and successful rider. Maybe he's jealous?Head Hands Heart Lungs Legs0 -
Absolutely to the above comments. Why should Armstrong allow other people to win if he thinks he can win himself? Would anybody be expected to throw a victory and to think along the lines of:: "some of the cycling community think I am boring and a nasty bully, I shouldn't win this race... here you go, Alberto."0
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I think there is a lot of speculation - especially on Armstraong's motivations - but whether it will be good for cycling will all depend on how it turns out next July.
If it will be just like the 7 years of Armstrong dominance - a one-man Lance show, even more controlled than before by team tactics with the main favorites in one team - it won't be good for cycling.
But I just do not believe it will all be the same as earlier Armstrong years. I do not believe he can win let alone dominate. I also do not believe Contador will simply ride as his domestique. If they are in the same team they will fight it out in the first TT/mountain stages; Astana has enough other riders to pull the pace in the mountains.
I do not like Armstrong, Contador or Basso, but at least racing next year will be exciting. With all three coming back I'm looking very much forward to a spectacular TdF next year. With Andy S. and Robby G. in the mix, how much more exciting than just Evans, Menchov and Sastre....0 -
Chris Who?
Which one will be remembered by the rest of the world in 10 years time?0 -
Funny how we don't get complaints about "Big Mig" having made the TdF a "boring" race.
Lance plus team did their jobs well, blame the other teams for not fighting them harder.
Many people don't like him, I'd like to bet that many didn't like Hinault either (Any complaints about his domination of the race?), doubtless Merckx & Anquetil were disliked too. (Ditto question).
Merckx certainly got many potential rivals into his team, to work for him. Are he & his very capable manager to be blamed for this too?
Bar his hunting mishap, Lemond may very well have added another few TdF to his palmares, perhaps he should be blamed for introducing a more scientific approach to racing?
If the general press concentrates upon LA, coming 15th, rather than AC/Schleck/Basso winning, who really cares?
Get in his way and he'll undoubtably trample you into the ground, ditto Hinault, ditto Bill Gates!
They've all got/had the same mentallity, they're in it to win it, second place is first loser.Remember that you are an Englishman and thus have won first prize in the lottery of life.0 -
sad that LA hasn't found something else to do.
fantastic for getting the sponsors back into cycling--
Obsessed is just a word elephants use to describe the dedicated. http://markliversedge.blogspot.com0 -
OffTheBackAdam wrote:Funny how we don't get complaints about "Big Mig" having made the TdF a "boring" race.
Lance plus team did their jobs well, blame the other teams for not fighting them harder.
Many people don't like him, I'd like to bet that many didn't like Hinault either (Any complaints about his domination of the race?), doubtless Merckx & Anquetil were disliked too. (Ditto question).
Merckx certainly got many potential rivals into his team, to work for him. Are he & his very capable manager to be blamed for this too?
Bar his hunting mishap, Lemond may very well have added another few TdF to his palmares, perhaps he should be blamed for introducing a more scientific approach to racing?
If the general press concentrates upon LA, coming 15th, rather than AC/Schleck/Basso winning, who really cares?
Get in his way and he'll undoubtably trample you into the ground, ditto Hinault, ditto Bill Gates!
They've all got/had the same mentallity, they're in it to win it, second place is first loser.
I don't complain about Big Mig because I never saw him race the Tour de France. Say what you like about me as a fan but this is a Lance Armstrong discussion which I have an opinion on.
I'd care very much if the press concentrated on him coming 15th, because 15th isn't as good as 1st. If he does come 15th, it just shows he's made us all look like fools for thinking he actually gives a poo and then talking about him when he doesn't win.
If he has such a nwinner's mentality, then why has he come out today and said "Well actually, I don't know if I can WIN, but I'll give it a ruddy good shot"0 -
Ask the average man on the street in the UK to name a cyclist and they are likely to name either Armstrong or Boardman.FORUM EXPERT wrote:Chris Who?
Which one will be remembered by the rest of the world in 10 years time?
As to who'll be remembered - probably both. One is an Olympic gold medallist and hour record holder (and lest we forget still holds the true hour record), the other a 7 time Tour winner.
So your snide comment says more about you than Boardman I'm afraid.0 -
Andy - not picking fault with your general sentiment, but isn't that held by the dodgy Czech Ondrej Sosenka now?andyp wrote:and lest we forget still holds the true hour record
http://www.bike-zone.com/news/?id=2005/jul05/jul19news60 -
Nope - that's the UCI's attempt at halting progress called the 'athlete's hour' whiere they've decided to stop bicycle technology progression in the early 1970s. Boardman's 56.375 km record still stands set using Obree's Superman position.Bronzie wrote:
Andy - not picking fault with your general sentiment, but isn't that held by the dodgy Czech Ondrej Sosenka now?andyp wrote:and lest we forget still holds the true hour record
http://www.bike-zone.com/news/?id=2005/jul05/jul19news60 -
From memory, I thought it was Boardman's idea. Either way the program following Boardman attempt to beat Merckx's time & take the record was great.andyp wrote:the UCI's attempt at halting progress called the 'athlete's hour' whiere they've decided to stop bicycle technology progression in the early 1970s.Rich0 -
I'm just imagining the forum in late July next year, reading see saw threads with comments like "Contador is great because he kicked Armstrong's butt in the high mountains" followed by "yeah but Armstrong is 38, contador would never have beaten him in his heyday" followed by "Armstrong only won in his heyday because of the PEDs, Contador would have still kicked his CLEAN butt" and on and on and on....................................... Take care,
Steve.0 -
Yes, of course. It seems likely that Boardman's "absolute record" will stand forever.andyp wrote:Boardman's 56.375 km record still stands set using Obree's Superman position.
It's a great pity that nobody seems interested in trying to break either record at the minute - I'd have thought Cancellara would be capable of it.0 -
Sorry mate, nope, it's in fact 87.123 km, held by Damjan Zabovnikandyp wrote:Nope - that's the UCI's attempt at halting progress called the 'athlete's hour' whiere they've decided to stop bicycle technology progression in the early 1970s. Boardman's 56.375 km record still stands set using Obree's Superman position.
http://bp2.blogger.com/_IuZFkkiVU4Y/Rj1 ... eaning.jpg0
