8hrs A Week

skavanagh.bikeradar

I've been trying to read all the other training posts and work out what training to fit into an 8 hour training week. I can't work out what is best. So I thought I'd ask the question I'm trying to answer.

Background
I can train 1 hour a night 3 nights a week, 3 hours on a Saturday (perhaps 2 during the winter) and 2 on a Sunday (perhaps 1 during the winter)

What should I be doing to help with something like the Fred Whitton Challenge - I'd like to go faster than this years 7.49, and take as much time off that as possible. Really I'm asking what can I cram into 8 hours in the chunks above to improve a hilly sportive?

brownbosh

Hard interval sessions on the turbo for the 3 mid week single hour rides, Sat 2 hours of as many hills you can find Sunday make sure you do the full 3 hours and again all of the hills you can find. Preferable you should be doing regular 4 hour plus rides to realy hack that time down.

knedlicky

For your weekend rides, start off with a 3 flattish rides to 1 hilly, then week by week gradually switch the ratio around, at the same time increasing the duration from 2 hours to 4 hours if possible. By weeks 13-16, the ratio should be 3 hilly to 1 flat, and then stay about that ratio until the event.

I’d go for two more-intense sessions in the week, one 2-hours if possible, rather than 3 less-intense 1-hour sessions.

If you’re really limited to 8 hours per week, and have to drop something in order to match the above, drop one of the weekend rides or reduce its duration, rather than cutting the week-night sessions or compromising the weekend rides to each only 2 hours.

Shavedlegs

Assuming you have a turbo, I'd get a couple of Spinerval DVDs for the mid week 1 hour sessions.

Then get out for some good rides on the weekends as suggested above.

Toks

skavanagh.bikeradar wrote:

I've been trying to read all the other training posts and work out what training to fit into an 8 hour training week. I can't work out what is best. So I thought I'd ask the question I'm trying to answer.

Background
I can train 1 hour a night 3 nights a week, 3 hours on a Saturday (perhaps 2 during the winter) and 2 on a Sunday (perhaps 1 during the winter)

What should I be doing to help with something like the Fred Whitton Challenge - I'd like to go faster than this years 7.49, and take as much time off that as possible. Really I'm asking what can I cram into 8 hours in the chunks above to improve a hilly sportive?

Hey 8 hours is definitly enough to ride well in a sportiv. Obviously this depends some what on how much "fitness wise" you're bringing to the party. 2 x 20's and rides in the 1-2 hrs plus some endurance 3hr jobs are the way to go I feel. Just make sure your putting in a decent effort. A 2 x 20 should be feel more intense/harder that a 3hr ride. Although the 3hr ride will perhaps feel more fatiguing at the end.

Someone called RapDaddyo on Cycleforums came up with a 90% rule a few years ago. Basically you make a 90% (perceived exertion/watts) of your best effort for the ride. This will be easier for experienced riders...Also without burning your self out (monitor tiredness) keep riding at a relatively moderate pace throughout the winter. That means keep those slow social rides to a minimum

skavanagh.bikeradar

Thanks for the replies fellas.

Soooooo.....varying advice so far especially about the midweek rides. 8hrs really is the absolute limit I've got. I'm not going to be able to squeeze 4hrs in at the weekend and in the week it is an hour or nothing. So the prescription really is 3x 1hr, 1x2hr and 1x3hr sessions.

I ditched the HRM this year and I don't have a power-ometer, so PRE is my guide. So 90% PRE would feel really quite hard. Last year I did outdoor 1.5 - 2hr rides at this level in lumpy terrain. I think I underdid longer rides in terms of effort and over did them in terms of time. 5hrs dawdling. So a reduction in time increases the focus somewhat.

The midweek turbo sessions are a condundrum though. Last winter I tended to make them no brainer sessions of riding at a steady state at a medium aerobic effort, a smidge under tempo, but not easy. I would need concentration but wasn't over taxing. Reading this forum has convinced me that 2x20 would get me more bang for my buck. But can you do that everyday 3 days in a row? If not how can you mix it up?

The longer ride at the weekend I'd intend to do at tempo pace in hilly terrain using bigger and bigger gears on hills as the winter progresses. The success of the 90 - 120 minute hard tempo rides have convinced me that 3hrs at just below that would be good for me.

I think after a year of getting to know my PRE well and riding when I felt like it, having to target sessions properly in the coming year means I can focus on quality - I have to. Might put a turbo with power measurement on the Christmas list (of course I can cycle less darling, I just need a tool that allows me to be more focussed when I'm training.....).

Alex_Simmons/RST

skavanagh.bikeradar wrote:

Reading this forum has convinced me that 2x20 would get me more bang for my buck. But can you do that everyday 3 days in a row? If not how can you mix it up?

There are a few nutcases out there that can and do but I wouldn't recommend it. It really depends on how hard those 20-minutes are. Don't forget, rest and recovery are very important too.

For your mid week work I would recommend breaking it up into various workouts to keep the variety and interest levels up.

Include sessions where power output varies up and down. Ride tempo and every so often throw in a short hard effort, do some shorter harder efforts every now and then and so on.

The trick when training with limited objective feedback is knowing when to have a recovery period, since you keep going hard (it still feels hard) but need to know when going hard = less power. Experienced riders who know their body well and are smart know the signs and take action but it is a common mistake to keep going or not know the signs. The "I'm going slower = must train more" crowd.

Having said that, if you have a solid training history behind you, it's almost impossible to overtrain on 8hrs/week.

skavanagh.bikeradar

Thanks Alex. I find hard efforts on successive days completely knackers me out. But as you say it's hard to know when hard = less power = need rest. I'll try and find some interesting workouts for the turbo. If I am mixing it up in those sessions - let's say I can stomach one 2x20 a week - what are we talking about compared to the effort/intensity/power/HR of a 2x20 for a workout that has a few harder efforts in it? I mean do I ride at tempo mostly and put in a sprint every 5 minutes to liven it up a bit? In the past I've done sessions where you zig-zag across HR zones but spend most of it in the tempo-ish zone. Not sure if this is as good as 2x20 or it's cousins...... I guess this rambling reply is asking, if not 2x20 what are the next two best things?

Cougar

skavanagh.bikeradar wrote:

Thanks Alex. I find hard efforts on successive days completely knackers me out. But as you say it's hard to know when hard = less power = need rest. I'll try and find some interesting workouts for the turbo. If I am mixing it up in those sessions - let's say I can stomach one 2x20 a week - what are we talking about compared to the effort/intensity/power/HR of a 2x20 for a workout that has a few harder efforts in it? I mean do I ride at tempo mostly and put in a sprint every 5 minutes to liven it up a bit? In the past I've done sessions where you zig-zag across HR zones but spend most of it in the tempo-ish zone. Not sure if this is as good as 2x20 or it's cousins...... I guess this rambling reply is asking, if not 2x20 what are the next two best things?

I know it sounds an oversimplification but there is nothing wrong in just going out and riding your bike. At the same time incorporate learning some new skills like spinning low gears, whilst keeping the body still on the bike (not bumping up and down on the saddle).

If you ride over a few hills then you will automatically lift the effort on the climbs, but keep it in a low gear @ 90rpm and then see how long you can keep pedalling in that gear down the other side and only change up when it gets too difficult. Riding a gear @ 85rpm or less will do nothing for your pedalling technique. I read somewhere recently that new studies show that high cadences plus core strength give greater efficiency. I've always known this but it's nice to see a bit of balance from the boffins at last.


P.S. This is where I read it:

http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/sports- ... g-training

Alex_Simmons/RST

Cougar wrote:

I know it sounds an oversimplification but there is nothing wrong in just going out and riding your bike. At the same time incorporate learning some new skills like spinning low gears, whilst keeping the body still on the bike (not bumping up and down on the saddle).

Nothing wrong with that at all. Neural adapatations are good. And even better when done at solid power levels. Just the OP is talking about indoor turbo work mid week which presumably for various reasons is his option. So the trick is to mix it up and keep it interesting. Riding outdoors that kind of happens naturally.

1 x L4 session / week is plenty. Keep it sub-threshold and it won't wipe you out so much, yet you'll get good gains and be able to back up the next day and do it week in week out. As fitness improves, so does the turbo speed/power required. Maybe do a harder test type effort every 4-6 weeks following an easier few days.

Alex_Simmons/RST

Cougar wrote:

I read somewhere recently that new studies show that high cadences plus core strength give greater efficiency. I've always known this but it's nice to see a bit of balance from the boffins at last.


P.S. This is where I read it:

http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/sports- ... g-training

Higher cadences in themselves are less efficient than lower ones but it is reasonable in my mind that doing higher cadence work helps improve "normal" cadence pedalling. Helps when it is done at same power.

Nevertheless, we tend not to pedal at the most efficient cadences anyway (which are generally very low) as they don't correlate with good performance.

Producing power and being efficient in the power we produce are two different things.

I also note from that abstract that the impact of the torso stabiliser was really only a factor at low cadences <=60 rpm and once you got to 80rpm it was negligible. Which suggests to me that the core is not typically a limiter at normal pedalling rates.

That makes sense and suggests that you don't need to do anything particularly special to work the core for on bike performance, other than riding the bike. Starts and sprints will do this quite effectively as will steep climbing and technical MTB type work. Anything that engages the upper body on a bike really.

But a little extra core work certainly won't hurt.

The demands for a sprinter/kilo rider would definitely suggest core work is vital. But that's a whole 'nother ball game.

idaviesmoore

Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:

Cougar wrote:

I

But a little extra core work certainly won't hurt.

.

When you mention 'core work', Alex, what are you specifically aiming at? Are there 'cycling specifics' for this type of training?

Sorry to be a pain :oops:

skavanagh.bikeradar

Thanks again for the extra info chaps. Cougar - I did the 'just ride your bike more' this year and it saw impressive gains (all relative, impressive for me!). However with less time I need to really get the most out of what I put in. Just going out when I feel like it for a couple of hours or more won't be an option soon. I need a routine and I need to fit it into those hours.

Alex_Simmons/RST

idaviesmoore wrote:

Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:

Cougar wrote:

I

But a little extra core work certainly won't hurt.

.

When you mention 'core work', Alex, what are you specifically aiming at? Are there 'cycling specifics' for this type of training?

Sorry to be a pain :oops:

Well I'm not the one advocating core work as being all that necessary for riding a bike (unless you have fundamental problems that need work). You get enough to ride a bike by riding a bike.

If you want to do extra, go for it. It's not going to slow you down (unless you forego limited bike specific training time to do it).

I can imagine swiss ball routines or some expensive forms of stretching and core work like yoga or pilates would do similar.

idaviesmoore

Thanks for that Alex. It strikes me that 'Core Strength' is a conundrum insofar as you can't actually measure it. I.E you can measure lots of fitness and strength gains by testing but, to my knowledge, there are no core strength tests? :?

Shavedlegs

I've always assumed that if your shoulders are rolling then you haven't the necessary 'core strength'. Not exactly a measure of how strong your core is, but whether or not it is adequate.