Lance Armstrong out of retirement
Comments
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So what's this new world we live in? Where highly qualified forumites get to choose who should and shouldn't ride in the pro tour. Bit elitist if you ask me.
Keep it the way it should be, let the racing (and the racers) do the talking and on the race track.
AND GO Lance!!!!!!
PS It seems odd to me that some members are refering to the 'Lance Era' as a historical period. Wakey-wakey the LANCE ERA isn't finshed yet.0 -
Fastlad wrote:redddraggon wrote:Fastlad wrote:WORLD CHAMP AT 21, 7 TIMES TDF WINNER, TOTALLY GIFTED AND 100% COMMITTED AND STILL HUNGRY TO WIN THE BIGGEST BIKE RACE IN THE WORLD!!!! VIVE LE TOUR.....FOREVER. WAY TO GO LANCE, YOU CAN DO IT 8)
HE WAS A BULLY, WHY DO PEOPLE HERO-WORSHIP THIS BULLY?
I don't care whether or not he doped, he was a downright bully.
he was bloody talented, aggresive, hungry and smart!!! All the necessary attributes of a tour winner.
P.s Nice guys don't win races such as the tour!! Look at the amount of pussies who constantly sit in the peloton afraid to attack!!! those guys will NEVER win! Lance has instilled fear and commands respect due to his pure ability and his sheer will to win, time and again. We need more bullies like him ffs :roll:
Did you watch the tour this year....a nice guy won 8) as for never attacking Big Mig wasn't the most attacking rider.You live and learn. At any rate, you live0 -
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redddraggon wrote:I'm guessing all these Lance lovers worship Joey Barton aswell.
LA hasn't served time in prison for being a thug, not a fair representation is it. Some people like him, some hate him, fact of life isn't it.
I still can't see what he has done so wrong, apart from dominating a race for 7 years, and being a ruthless competitor.0 -
What Lance has done wrong:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2004/jul/24/tourdefrance2004.tourdefrance1
Was it comparable to assault, nope, of course not. But it was small minded and inexcusable.You live and learn. At any rate, you live0 -
I'm guessing all these Lance lovers worship Joey Barton aswell
Are you sure you want to compare Armstrong with Joey Barton? A racist thug who engages in random violence?
I think you're taking it a bit far there.0 -
knedlicky wrote:I see Ulle has said 'Well if Lance's making a comeback, so should I . Seriously. Although I've not really thought of it before'.
Please God let this be true."A cyclist has nothing to lose but his chain"
PTP Runner Up 20150 -
This thread is a prime example of why I hoped the rumours were false.
Everything in it - on both sides - has been said a million times before. It's just old and boring, a bit like the man himself.
I was watching the Vuelta coverage today and pressed mute within about 10 minutes. To think we have this for the next 10 months is a thoroughly depressing thought.0 -
afx237vi,
I have a solution. Stop the Lance bashing. Watch the Vuelta. Wait 10 months. Watch the race unfold.0 -
Jez mon wrote:What Lance has done wrong:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2004/jul/24/tourdefrance2004.tourdefrance1
Was it comparable to assault, nope, of course not. But it was small minded and inexcusable.
No where near the same, I wouldn't call it bullying to be honest, just a man intend on stopping someone getting away, utterly ruthless, but he is well within his rights to do it.
He caught him on his own, and they both went back together, Simeoni could have said stuff it, and kept on trying to bridge the gap, but he gave in and went back. I know it was all linked to Dr Ferrari, but politics happen in every sport, just got to live with it unfortunately. I have seen alot worse in other sports.0 -
redddraggon wrote:Fastlad wrote:WORLD CHAMP AT 21, 7 TIMES TDF WINNER, TOTALLY GIFTED AND 100% COMMITTED AND STILL HUNGRY TO WIN THE BIGGEST BIKE RACE IN THE WORLD!!!! VIVE LE TOUR.....FOREVER. WAY TO GO LANCE, YOU CAN DO IT 8)
HE WAS A BULLY, WHY DO PEOPLE HERO-WORSHIP THIS BULLY?
I don't care whether or not he doped, he was a downright bully.
Same reason as Hinault, a guy who casually assaulted people for having the temerity to even look at him the wrong way. Same reason as Anquetil, a man who was "Maitre" in the most unpleasant sense of the word both on the road and in the home. Same reason as Merckx, a guy who tested positive twice in his career, and who LA regards/regarded as a friend.0 -
15threes wrote:afx237vi,
I have a solution. Stop the Lance bashing. Watch the Vuelta. Wait 10 months. Watch the race unfold.
Well, that's just it. I don't particularly want to watch the Vuelta when the commentators spend two hours talking the same old crap that's being bashed out all over this forum.0 -
Why is it, when someone is sucessfull they are branded a cheat, i personally can't wait for next years tour and i hope the guy wins, there will be a lot of egg on a lot of peoples faces if he does win.
Lance Armstrong takes drugs....MY ASS....do you people not realize how big this guy is, the people and the money that is behind this guy is massive, do you really think these people would entertain him if he was doping, i think not, check out the science of lance armstrong vids they go along way on how and why he so succesfull.0 -
There was I think the old Paceline forum was defunkt. That will be the next thing to get reserrected in this depressing blast from the past
Only one thing to do. Avoid the Fanboy threads and stick to the sensible stuff.
Let them all stay up for another year and then tuck them back into bed, for ever."Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
My take on this?
The oligarchs behind team Astana made him an offer even he couldn't refuse.0 -
Regardless of the likelihood of Armstrong riding the Tour, or his chances if he does, I find the endless debate about whether he doped his way to 7 TdF wins frankly asinine. So I’ll add my view!
Too often Armstrong’s TdF wins have been made out to be implausible for a clean athlete. However, whatever you believe, a number of common factors accompanied his wins, arguably gaining momentum throughout that period. The factors are not unique to him, but few others in his period ever had them all. In no order of importance here are some:
Attention to detail – an iterative (almost compulsive) evaluation of all factors affecting performance (like Schumaker in F1)
Training & Nutrition – particularly the expertise of Chris Carmichael.
Preparation – exhaustive route preparation for mountain, individual and team stages.
Tactics – the weight of Bruyneel’s advanced planning and immediate tactical support.
Team – picked specifically to support LA alone.
Trek - resources and attention to detail for bike set up for each stage.
Physiology – as well as the leg power of a strong one day finisher, LA had the benefit of developing the lungs of a runner and upper body strength of a competition swimmer and triathlete during his formative years, then later adaptation towards lower proportionate lactic acid production than normal, and much reduced body weight following chemotherapy.
Determination - (need we say more – but it is essential)
Resilience – the factor Ulrich seemed to lack from 1998 on Les deux Alpes onwards
Anger (and fear of failure) – this controlled emotion has been said to have a motor to his determination
Money – an increasingly wealthy team with deepening resources
And:
Consistency – few riders rode with the degree of consistency that L.A. did in his tours, in large part no doubt due to the team, but experts point out consistency is extremely hard to achieve day on day with drugs. Many others around him over whom the banner of doubt hangs heavy did not achieve it (Ulrich, Pantani, Virenque, Vino, Basso).
If Armstrong makes a comeback fair do’s. I doubt he’d win (has he even said that is the goal) – but resources and determination alone make a big difference, and not just to laboratory research…
Oh and what’s all this ‘bully’ talk? Strong sports men and women often assert and impose dominance psychologically and win. Others have to be as strong not to be affected. I’d rather that than see another pathetic hissy fit from an oversensitive Aussy taking himself a bit too seriously! And all this puffah about his L.A.’s money making and business interests – that affects his credentials as an athlete how? From my point of view the worst thing L.A. has done is be photographed mountain biking with a certain other Texan gobshite, who really is a bully…0 -
Is this a joke.. :roll:
Or a ploy prior to the US Elections. :?
I couldn't care less..the question should be why..other than for his motives.
And here was me looking forward to next years TDF...oh well :oops: :oops:0 -
Thanks, your point on training & nutrition and the 'expertise' of Chris Carmichael is the best laugh I've had all day.
No wonder the full details will be published in Vanity Fair - this is just one big ego massage. What a troll Armstrong is - he really needs to leave the sport alone and let it move on.
Still, wonder which Armstrong we'll see - the 'new, improved' version or the one that regularly got his butt kicked in the TdF losing 20 minutes in the mountains and getting caught by Indurain in a TT.0 -
Well, the bookies think he has a good chance, as he is already being quoted as 7-2 second favourite for next years' Tour de France.Notifitsraining wrote:If Armstrong makes a comeback fair do’s. I doubt he’d win (has he even said that is the goal) …0 -
Hee hee hee I knew that would either amuse, irritate or at least show just how futile pursuing the truth can be - because you just can't tell some people (and if you could they wouldn't be interested anyway - I think it's called belief or something weird like that). I promise not to interrupt a debate ever again. Now what's going on in the Vuelta...0
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Having had relatives and indeed my wife who has suffered from cancer - Lance's statment today re riding next year and the promotion of a further initiative for the cancer foundation I am delighted that it will bring more publicity to something that has already raised $70 million
Shame so many people have to take the negative fault finding atitude to anyone who uses their fame/power to give more than just thinking of themselves0 -
redddraggon wrote:Fastlad wrote:WORLD CHAMP AT 21, 7 TIMES TDF WINNER, TOTALLY GIFTED AND 100% COMMITTED AND STILL HUNGRY TO WIN THE BIGGEST BIKE RACE IN THE WORLD!!!! VIVE LE TOUR.....FOREVER. WAY TO GO LANCE, YOU CAN DO IT 8)
HE WAS A BULLY, WHY DO PEOPLE HERO-WORSHIP THIS BULLY?
I don't care whether or not he doped, he was a downright bully.
mmm .. you really think you win an event like the TdF being a caring individual for everyone's well being in the peleton?....No you want to win and beat them.. this is sport and a competition... at TdF level brutal survival of the fittest.0 -
juggler wrote:redddraggon wrote:Fastlad wrote:WORLD CHAMP AT 21, 7 TIMES TDF WINNER, TOTALLY GIFTED AND 100% COMMITTED AND STILL HUNGRY TO WIN THE BIGGEST BIKE RACE IN THE WORLD!!!! VIVE LE TOUR.....FOREVER. WAY TO GO LANCE, YOU CAN DO IT 8)
HE WAS A BULLY, WHY DO PEOPLE HERO-WORSHIP THIS BULLY?
I don't care whether or not he doped, he was a downright bully.
mmm .. you really think you win an event like the TdF being a caring individual for everyone's well being in the peloton?....No you want to win and beat them.. this is sport and a competition... at TdF level brutal survival of the fittest.
Didn't Sastre win the Tour, what about Lemond? Indurain? You don't need to be a bully to win the tour.0 -
Well I'm OK with LA giving it one more go, why not, if its for raising cancer charities profiles then it can only help. I was a USPS/Disco' fan but I kinda moved on & I don't want him messing up Contador's chances
And ASO ain't going to miss out or deny him entry to the tour (whether they want him to win is another matter) just think of the world wide interest it will generate & therefore TV income to the ASO coffers I imagine the bidding war has already started, & all the writers with their books to sell for & against will no doubt cash in, I'm sure I can hear the rubbing of hands in Walsh/Whittle manors
Its likely the story will generate more column inches than a Led Zep reunion..0 -
redddraggon wrote:juggler wrote:redddraggon wrote:Fastlad wrote:WORLD CHAMP AT 21, 7 TIMES TDF WINNER, TOTALLY GIFTED AND 100% COMMITTED AND STILL HUNGRY TO WIN THE BIGGEST BIKE RACE IN THE WORLD!!!! VIVE LE TOUR.....FOREVER. WAY TO GO LANCE, YOU CAN DO IT 8)
HE WAS A BULLY, WHY DO PEOPLE HERO-WORSHIP THIS BULLY?
I don't care whether or not he doped, he was a downright bully.
mmm .. you really think you win an event like the TdF being a caring individual for everyone's well being in the peloton?....No you want to win and beat them.. this is sport and a competition... at TdF level brutal survival of the fittest.
Didn't Sastre win the Tour, what about Lemond? Indurain? You don't need to be a bully to win the tour.
Agree 100% with Reddraggon.
In fact, LeMond did a lot of stuff to help lesser riders. What Lance did to Simeoni was despicable. They might have been in the same race, but they might as well not have been. Simeoni was a small time rider who posed NO THREAT WHATSOEVER to Lance, he was just trying to make a living and get a placing in a stage. Instead Lance forced Simeoni out of the break.You live and learn. At any rate, you live0 -
I'd see Lance win the Tour again, I'd like to see the French Anti-Doping Agency turn him into a pin cushion, and I'd like to see him clean. We know the french can catch them better than most agencies
I'm not against him coming back, or racing in the tour, or winning the tour. I just don't understand why people worship him so much, most (if not all) of what he did he did for himself. His arrogance is not like most sportsman's I reckon he goes over the line.
His personality doesn't stop wanting him to do well, I reckon a "clean" win now would put some of the doubts about the other 7 to rest. I'm just under no illusions about what sort of person he is.0 -
redddraggon wrote:I'd see Lance win the Tour again, I'd like to see the French Anti-Doping Agency turn him into a pin cushion, and I'd like to see him clean. We know the french can catch them better than most agencies
I'm not against him coming back, or racing in the tour, or winning the tour. I just don't understand why people worship him so much, most (if not all) of what he did he did for himself. His arrogance is not like most sportsman's I reckon he goes over the line.
His personality doesn't stop wanting him to do well, I reckon a "clean" win now would put some of the doubts about the other 7 to rest. I'm just under no illusions about what sort of person he is.
People admire him because he's a champion. You might not like the fact he's quite up front and "in your face" but you don't even know him. How can you talk about what kind of person somebody is when you have never spent any time with them? I don't know, maybe he walks his dogs, is a good father and talks to anybody who wants to talk to him as just a pretty nice, normal guy. All you do know is that he's a winner and that he dedicates himself totally to the thing he wants the most: winning a bike race.0 -
sicrow wrote:Having had relatives and indeed my wife who has suffered from cancer - Lance's statment today re riding next year and the promotion of a further initiative for the cancer foundation I am delighted that it will bring more publicity to something that has already raised $70 million
Hmmm. Laudable sentiments, but misdirected. I've had cancer and written about it a fair bit for the press, which has entailed talking quite a bit to the boffins behind the scenes. $70m is peanuts. Each new drug costs $1bn. Only multinational drug companies can afford that. The best that the charities can hope for is to occasionally point the companies in the right direction.
After raising money for LAF I tried to understand what it was spending its money on, and it doesn't seem to be research which would help the cancer community worldwide. It's more a question of supporting US cancer patients and influencing US legislators. If you want to help British patients I recommend raising money for the Macmillan Fund.
I don't think Lance's comeback will help anyone. There's not really a problem with cancer awareness. What we need in this country is an increase in the tax rate to ensure equal access to all the latest drugs, some of which cost 100k for 1 year's treatment. Lance isn't going to help that cause one bit.<hr>
<h6>What\'s the point of going out? We\'re just going to end up back here anyway</h6>0 -
Eurostar wrote:sicrow wrote:Having had relatives and indeed my wife who has suffered from cancer - Lance's statment today re riding next year and the promotion of a further initiative for the cancer foundation I am delighted that it will bring more publicity to something that has already raised $70 million
Hmmm. Laudable sentiments, but misdirected. I've had cancer and written about it a fair bit for the press, which has entailed talking quite a bit to the boffins behind the scenes. $70m is peanuts. Each new drug costs $1bn. Only multinational drug companies can afford that. The best that the charities can hope for is to occasionally point the companies in the right direction.
After raising money for LAF I tried to understand what it was spending its money on, and it doesn't seem to be research which would help the cancer community worldwide. It's more a question of supporting US cancer patients and influencing US legislators. If you want to help British patients I recommend raising money for the Macmillan Fund.
I don't think Lance's comeback will help anyone. There's not really a problem with cancer awareness. What we need in this country is an increase in the tax rate to ensure equal access to all the latest drugs, some of which cost 100k for 1 year's treatment. Lance isn't going to help that cause one bit.
I agree for the most part but your numbers are wrong. Lance's foundation has raised $270 million, so far.0 -
Great post Eurostar, and a great examination of the supposed 'motive'.0
