CTT handbook 2009

onabike

hi

when would the 2009 CTT handbook be available to buy? I need to know the dates as soon as possible ( well December/January is ok) to plan in around work.
Is there a website describing the location of the various courses?
Can anyone join these open events? I've only ever done Club time trials.

Thanks

andrewgturnbull

onabike wrote:

hi

when would the 2009 CTT handbook be available to buy? I need to know the dates as soon as possible ( well December/January is ok) to plan in around work.
Is there a website describing the location of the various courses?
Can anyone join these open events? I've only ever done Club time trials.

Thanks

Hi there.

http://www.cyclingtimetrials.org.uk/

That should tell you all you need to know, and probably avoid the need to actually buy a handbook.

You need to be a member of an affiliated club to ride open events - if you can't find a suitable club, then I think you can be a member of a central CTT club or somesuch.

That applies to England and Wales. Up here in Scotland, the CTT has no involvment, and things are much more straightforward...

Cheers, Andy

chrisw12

I'd have to dissagree with Andy in that, the websites will tell you the dates of events but it will not tell you the addresses needed to send off entry forms, so you will eventualy need to buy a handbook.

IIrc, handbooks are first relaesed at champions night which is in late Jan early Feb??? They are then released for general sale. The addresses for earl season tt's are normaly posted on internet though.

If you want to plan for next season then tbh, just look at this seasons calender. The masters of tt are very, very reluctant to change anything and events prety much stay at the same dates.

Mark Alexander

chrisw12 wrote:

I'd have to dissagree with Andy in that, the websites will tell you the dates of events but it will not tell you the addresses needed to send off entry forms, so you will eventualy need to buy a handbook.

IIrc, handbooks are first relaesed at champions night which is in late Jan early Feb??? They are then released for general sale. The addresses for earl season tt's are normaly posted on internet though.

If you want to plan for next season then tbh, just look at this seasons calender. The masters of tt are very, very reluctant to change anything and events prety much stay at the same dates.

Chris, Wiser words were never said

BeaconRuth

onabike wrote:

Is there a website describing the location of the various courses?

Unfortunately no there isn't. Some courses are described on the National CTT website. Some are given in outline in the handbook. But the courses are defined and authorised for use by each local district council of the CTT. So the quality of the information you can find about local courses depends on the quality of your district's website. Finding your district's website (if there is one) is the first task. Whereabouts are you based, Onabike?

But in any case, the most important date for your diary is 26th April 2009, because that's the day of the best TT in the country (Me? Biased?): http://www.beaconrcc.org.uk/open_races/lmtt/index.html
Full 2009 details will appear towards the end of the year.

Ruth

Kléber

chrisw12 wrote:

I'd have to dissagree with Andy in that, the websites will tell you the dates of events but it will not tell you the addresses needed to send off entry forms, so you will eventualy need to buy a handbook.

Why? Surely the sport needs to make itself more open to people and not hide details from people. In the internet age, deliberately keeping details of the website seems strange.

I know CTT makes money from the book but why not put the details on line too and increase the levy for events by, say, 20p?

andrewgturnbull

Kléber wrote:

chrisw12 wrote:

I'd have to dissagree with Andy in that, the websites will tell you the dates of events but it will not tell you the addresses needed to send off entry forms, so you will eventualy need to buy a handbook.

Why? Surely the sport needs to make itself more open to people and not hide details from people. In the internet age, deliberately keeping details of the website seems strange.

I know CTT makes money from the book but why not put the details on line too and increase the levy for events by, say, 20p?

Fair enough Chris - I've never rode a TT south of the border - I just assumed that the website would have all the details. In Scotland all bike racing (Road, Crit, Track, CX, MTB, BMX, TT) are run by the SCU which is affiliated as a region of British Cycling. All the entry forms, names, addresses, course descriptions etc can be found on either the SCU or the BC sites.

We have even had a minor revolution this year where a lot of the events have had on-line entry!

Kleber - I've asked this question time and time again. The answer _seems_ to be that the majority of the sport are not interested in marketing to those outside of the sport.

I'm sure there are notable exceptions - Ruth has told us in the past of the lengths her club has gone to in order to attract new riders. An exception rather than the rule unfortunately...

Cheers, Andy

SteveR_100Milers

onabike wrote:

hi

Is there a website describing the location of the various courses?

Thanks

They are all secret, hence the codenames for each course.... Strange but based on some truth - an anachronism from the days when racing on public roads was illegal. As Ruth has said, depends on the quality of the website for each disctrict, often in practical terms and of course for those with no internet access this means word of mouth from other club riders, especially if you are riding a new event outside of your district and you may not know the web address of that district.

Mark Alexander

well, this may help
if anyone can add to it go for it

http://www.timetriallingforum.co.uk/ind ... opic=18586

chrisw12

Kléber wrote:

chrisw12 wrote:

I'd have to dissagree with Andy in that, the websites will tell you the dates of events but it will not tell you the addresses needed to send off entry forms, so you will eventualy need to buy a handbook.

Why? Surely the sport needs to make itself more open to people and not hide details from people. In the internet age, deliberately keeping details of the website seems strange.

I know CTT makes money from the book but why not put the details on line too and increase the levy for events by, say, 20p?

I hope that why isn't aimed directly at directly at me, I didn't make the rule nor do I agree with it. I'm just pointing out that to get an address you will need a handbook, please don't shoot the messenger. .

Trust me (I've just joined the regional committee) trying to get things to change is quite difficult. It would be easy to blame the 'older' generation of administrators, but really the problem is the apathetic nature of most riders who will offer sugestions for change but will not do anything about it. I include myself as one of these people.

But yes the sport does need to make itself more open and does need to get into the internet age.

chrisw12

There we are, to show how pro-active the new me is I've posted the question about the handbook to the experts on the timetrial forum:- http://www.timetriallingforum.co.uk/ind ... opic=23790

As it happens, I was asked for advice on a similar topic just this evening by a club mate, so the reference at the start of my question on the other forum is not to the op here.

onabike

Thanks folks.

The CTT website does, to a TT newbie at least, seem a bit confusing.

Kléber

chrisw12 wrote:

I hope that why isn't aimed directly at directly at me

No, it wasn't aimed at you, certainly not.

Here's another idea. Once the details are published online, why not allow organisers to hold 10 extra places for newcomers on the day at their choice. So you take 110 standard entries and then the first 1-10 places on the day are alloted to anyone who turns up on the day before a set time, maybe for non-club riders only. I'm just thinking aloud about ways to get new riders in. I know newcomers can try non-open events (ironic!) like club events but these aren't always at convenient times.

sub55

chrisw12 wrote:

There we are, to show how pro-active the new me is I've posted the question about the handbook to the experts on the timetrial forum:- http://www.timetriallingforum.co.uk/ind ... opic=23790

As it happens, I was asked for advice on a similar topic just this evening by a club mate, so the reference at the start of my question on the other forum is not to the op here.

chris,
i`ll post the answer to your question on here because it`s been said mant times on the tt forum.
if you care to look at the accounts for the ctt ,you`ll see that the handbook only barely covers it`s costs and does not make a profit of any significance. the reason event ,promoters addresses are not on the website is a side product of our insurance cover. basically, you sign the entry form to declare ,you have read the rules and regs. if you have`nt got a handbook ,you cant have done that so you cant sign the form.
now i know before everybody starts shouting at me , the rules/regs are on the website and you can buy the handbook and not read the rules/regs. but the explanation is as i have stated above.
besides , the handbook is`nt exactly alot of money and is quite agood read in those dark winter months. there`s alot more stuff in than just the events you can enter. further more when you consider that to compete ,you have to be a member of a club ,one could assume that other members of clubs could give any required information to a newbie. in fact ,your club sec,will have a handbook because each anfd every affiliated club is sent one free of charge, in early february.
the ctt are often accused of being set in their ways. which is strange ,when you consider the whole system of having it`s rules and regs changed is completely demorgraphic . so ultimately ,if the riders themselves who can make any changes , they would like. the fact that these changes dont occur , is probably because ,broadly speaking the sport is as the riders want it. discuss.

sub55

Kléber wrote:

chrisw12 wrote:

I hope that why isn't aimed directly at directly at me

No, it wasn't aimed at you, certainly not.

Here's another idea. Once the details are published online, why not allow organisers to hold 10 extra places for newcomers on the day at their choice. So you take 110 standard entries and then the first 1-10 places on the day are alloted to anyone who turns up on the day before a set time, maybe for non-club riders only. I'm just thinking aloud about ways to get new riders in. I know newcomers can try non-open events (ironic!) like club events but these aren't always at convenient times.

as an event promoter, i would not and will never take entries on the line for open event. it may sound straight forward but it would be an logistical nightmare. the last thing that i would want at 7am on a sunday morning , with 110 riders booked in ,is 10 newbies .who dont know what they are doing asking me stupid questians that i probably wont know the answer to , with a starting time keeper scratching his head because he does`nt know what time the first rider is off.
i know that welsh cycling union regret the day that entry on the line was introduced because pre entry fell as riders , wait to see what the weathers going to be like and then intend to enter on the line as a result , promoters cancell events because they have`nt got enought pre entered riders to make it financially viable.

chrisw12

When I(or rather my club I was in) organised a triathlon a few years ago, we did exactly as you said. We were allocated 100 spots but had only 90 entries by the closing date so we just opened it up. We put a few messages out on the internet, made a few phone calls and offered 10 on the line entries to fill the race. Now this worked as we had the element of surprise in that people were told there would be no entries on the line. I don't know if we could have got away with this tactic for another year.

Now roll on to this year(and I'm orgainising a timetrial) where I had 30 spare spaces and at least two people phoning me after the deadline wanting races. I could have easily have put more people in at the end you suggested but the tt rules wont allow it, why I don't know?

I understand totaly why orgainser don't want entry on the line. I certainly would NOT orgainse a race which was EOL but I think that perhpas there could be some flexibility with allowing some riders to ride who have missed the deadline.

SteveR_100Milers

Kléber wrote:

chrisw12 wrote:

I hope that why isn't aimed directly at directly at me

No, it wasn't aimed at you, certainly not.

Here's another idea. Once the details are published online, why not allow organisers to hold 10 extra places for newcomers on the day at their choice. So you take 110 standard entries and then the first 1-10 places on the day are alloted to anyone who turns up on the day before a set time, maybe for non-club riders only. I'm just thinking aloud about ways to get new riders in. I know newcomers can try non-open events (ironic!) like club events but these aren't always at convenient times.

as another event organiser, this would make it even less attractive and almost impossible to legislate for at current "prices", since you have to register the event details with the local police directly and via the CTT which stipulates that a list of riders and officials be submitted.
For insurance purposes you have t have a predetermined enry list, wo must sign on on the day, remember there is licensing system for TTing that you have for road racing.

TTing is suppoed to be an "easier" way of bike racing from both a cost and logistical point of view, EOL's would not help!

Remember a RR is a completeley different animal, and costs are much higher involving police escorts, licensing of riders etc etc

chrisw12

SteveR_100Milers wrote:

Kléber wrote:

chrisw12 wrote:

I hope that why isn't aimed directly at directly at me

No, it wasn't aimed at you, certainly not.

Here's another idea. Once the details are published online, why not allow organisers to hold 10 extra places for newcomers on the day at their choice. So you take 110 standard entries and then the first 1-10 places on the day are alloted to anyone who turns up on the day before a set time, maybe for non-club riders only. I'm just thinking aloud about ways to get new riders in. I know newcomers can try non-open events (ironic!) like club events but these aren't always at convenient times.

as another event organiser, this would make it even less attractive and almost impossible to legislate for at current "prices", since you have to register the event details with the local police directly and via the CTT which stipulates that a list of riders and officials be submitted.
For insurance purposes you have t have a predetermined enry list, wo must sign on on the day, remember there is not licensing system for TTing that you have for road racing.

TTing is suppoed to be an "easier" way of bike racing from both a cost and logistical point of view, EOL's would not help!

Remember a RR is a completeley different animal, and costs are much higher involving police escorts, licensing of riders etc etc

Steve, you missed the word 'not' out.


It's funny that most people think that eol is a good idea, then you orgainse your first race and you realise it's probably the worst idea in the world.

Kléber

sub55 wrote:

the last thing that i would want at 7am on a sunday morning , with 110 riders booked in ,is 10 newbies .who dont know what they are doing asking me stupid questians that i probably wont know the answer to

I know what you mean. Mine was only a suggestion so having advice from others helps. But remember, an "I can't help newcomers" attitude isn't going to boost the sport although I appreciate there is enough to do on a Sunday morning already.