power output over 20 mins

vermooten

Hi,

I've recently started training using power rather than HR. I'm kinda new to all this stuff, and really quite new to TTing. My current max average power over 20 minutes is 277W.

I'd like to know what other people achieve over the same time. My coach is understandably reluctant to give me a target, but my curiousity is killing me.

(I know I can get Adam Hansen's details off the Training Peaks site, but I'm more interested in the data from other forumites.)

Cheers,
Andy

Alex_Simmons/RST

Make a bit more sense to ask for W/kg numbers. But anyway....

Pre accident: 328W
Post accident so far: 214W

nmcgann

vermooten wrote:

Hi,

I've recently started training using power rather than HR. I'm kinda new to all this stuff, and really quite new to TTing. My current max average power over 20 minutes is 277W.

I'd like to know what other people achieve over the same time. My coach is understandably reluctant to give me a target, but my curiousity is killing me.

(I know I can get Adam Hansen's details off the Training Peaks site, but I'm more interested in the data from other forumites.)

Cheers,
Andy

Look here: http://www.cyclingforums.com/f88-power-training.html at the "2008 FTP" thread (these are 1h powers, so 20min will be quite a bit higher).

I'm keeping quiet about my power output, it's currently lower than at the end of pre-season training and appears to be going inexorably downward :oops:

Neil

vermooten

Great thanks for your responses!

FWIW my power/weight is 277/74 = 3.74.

I think there's much for me to learn here. The http://www.cyclingforums.com/t450512.html thread is really interesting, shows I have a LONG WAY to go which is great to know.

Cheers,
Andy

Jeff Jones

Another data point: 345-355W @ 70kg. FTP is about 330-335W. I'm hoping for another few watts over the next month, but that's usually as good as it gets for me.

vermooten

Sorry to be a dumbo newbie: what does 'FTP' stand for? I only know it as 'file transfer protocol'....

EDIT: got it: functional threshold power.

Jeff Jones

Yeah, that's it, and sorry for using an acronym without explaining it. I should know better.

xover_runner

What's more interesting is the relationship between FTP and 20 min power. The "book" says FTP should be 95% of 20 min power. Mine is only 91% based on recent TT measurements using the same Powertap. Any other values?

Alex_Simmons/RST

xover_runner wrote:

What's more interesting is the relationship between FTP and 20 min power. The "book" says FTP should be 95% of 20 min power. Mine is only 91% based on recent TT measurements using the same Powertap. Any other values?

Anywhere from 92-98% is pretty typical.

It might depend on the type of long TT course you rode. Some courses it can be easier to have a higher average power than others.

Parsnip49

FTP of 310 @ 67kg - want to be at 5W/kg for next year

20 min power is around 330W

bahzob

Loads of peoples profiles here:

http://www.flammerouge.je/content/3_factsheets/constant/wvo2profile.htm

For me its 328W/4.6W kg at 20mins and 305W/4.3W kg 60 mins

Richard891

Hi everyone,

I've been reading all the power, FTP threads on here for a few months and over the last 6 weeks have been doing 2x20min intervals on a static exercise bike in the gym which gives a power reading. I guess these things are probably not so accurately calibrated so I always try to use the same bike, for consistency.

I'm basically just wondering if I've found the right effort level for these intervals. My heart rate typically slides from 150 to 170bpm over one 20min interval, or between 80-90% of my max. I take it when people say "20 minute power", that means 20 minutes flat out and is not the same level as you would do 2x20min intervals at?

Now, I didn't do an FTP test, I just experimented with the levels I worked at the first week I tried. Back then I found I could manage 2x20 @240W; yesterday, after 6 weeks, including an easy week, two short club races, longer weekend rides etc. I did 2x20 @255W.

I'm happy to see an improvement but all this time I've been wondering just what is my FTP? According the flammerouge website the 2x20s are best done at 85% of FTP, which would make it about 300W (ignoring any calibration error in the exercise bike's power figures).

Alex says that my FTP should be typically 92-98% of my 20min power: I am thinking I probably could do a single 20 minute interval at over 300W, so that would correllate well with the above. I think I did do an interval at over 300W when I was trying to find the right level for the 2x20s; but I certainly wasn't able to do two of them!

bahzob

Yes the 20mins values here are flat out (or close, mine comes from a 10TT)

The question "what is my FTP?" has many answers....

Alex has a classic post here that that goes into more details

http://alex-cycle.blogspot.com/2008/05/seven-deadly-sins.html

All that said you have got to the answer before knowing the question. FTP is mainly used in training to set target zones. 2x20s are a classic way to increase your FTP as you aim to do each of them at around (ideally just above) threshold level (I would differ from Flammerouge here).

So if you are doing 2x20@255 then a guess of your FTP is 255

(Only caveat to this is that depending on person some people can maintain higher power on an exercise bike/turbo than real bike outdoors and vice versa. I struggle to do 2x20s on turbo but find them much less painless on the road)

(BTW on FTPs and 2x20 on exercise bikes another classic post is here

http://www.cyclingforums.com/t-314849-15-12.html

Its a bit of an epic which details how a 60something guy went from 120W to 300W (on an hour on an exercise bike) via the means of doing 2x20s progressively. There is some useful advice in the first few pages, result is on page 147)

bahzob

PS to the above:
Think the difference in the Flammerouge view on 2x20 is down to fact that these intervals are mentioned a couple of times by Andrew Coggan in his power training bible

You can do 2x20 intervals during base training in the so called sweetspot that is around 90-95% of FTP. As training progresses you may extend these to 4x20 or continuous 1-2 hour sessions. This is a precursor to moving on to full on threshold work where the 2x20s will be done at 95-105% of FTP. Confusing.

Since you are progressing quite quickly it may be that your 2x20s are being done at less than FTP. Pretty good test is how easy the second interval feels to the first at the same power. Closer you get to FTP the harder the second interval will feel and when you cant maintain same watts in second interval then thats going to be pretty much FTP.

Richard891

Thanks Bahzob,

That's exactly the sort of info I was looking for. Doing this kind of training on an exercise bike isn't ideal (though this summer I haven't minded much since it's been raining all the time), but a power meter would probably set me back more than I spent on my bike! I'm sure there are others out there that would like to get a handle on their FTP, without making such an investment.

For what it's worth, I've done one 10mile TT this year, back in April, on my road bike, no tri-bars or any aero kit. My time was 28.36min, which is a P.B. since it's the only 10TT I've ever done I guess TTs take practice too, plus I cycled out to this one, up a pretty steep climb!

I'd say my fitness has improved since then, as I hadn't really done any interval training before it. I had planned to do another 10, to see if I could improve but unfortunately the club has no more planned this season What sort of times are you doing in your 10TTs then with 4.6W/kg?

Cheers,

Rick

p.s. currently the second interval is harder than the first and takes concentration, but I normally have enough left to keep it above 255W, or whatever my target level is for the last 2-3 minutes. Maybe it's time to go harder?

bahzob

I do TTs on road bike as well, around the 24:10 to 24:20 mark.

And yes a good plan would be to up the target watts on your 2x20s until you cant manage to do the second. However just couple of words of caution:

> There is a dark side to power training where you get obsessed with power numbers and can forget its a means to an end (i.e. being a better cyclist). I know as I have occasionally strayed down it
> Its worth bearing in mind what you are training for and adapt training for that. 2x20 is a great drill as it will benefit most types of cycling but if doing a faster 10TT is your goal then doing some shorter (e.g. 2x10) but harder intervals will help. If you want to do a long ride e.g. sportive then you will need to do some long rides. And if thinking of racing then its necessary to do a lot short but very intense workouts will be needed.

Richard891

Hmm, what am I training for at this stage? Most of the season's goals have been hit already. My first main target of the year was a 200km sportive, here in NI, called Tour of the Glens. I've done a few more local sportives since then, interspersed with few club races. The races are normally about 20-30miles and are run off at about 20-23mph depending on the conditions/terrain and are well handicapped. I've finished with the bunch (another goal) as often as I've been dropped but they've definitely made me faster. I'm not really interested in TTs though I think they probably give the clearest picture of one's form and I can see how they'd be addictive too.

At the moment Ive got a couple more sportives pencilled into the calendar, two that I did last summer when I'd just got my bike. I'm still doing the weekend club runs when it's not p**sing down and now I guess the goal is to smash last summer's times over these, hopefully the 2x20s will pay dividends!