Catastrophic Stem Failure

roadiesean

yesterday my 2 month old deda 100 stem (bought from the good people at condor)fractured catastrophically across the front piece and the bars collapsed with me and my now broken shoulder hitting the ground very, very hard!!! also destroying my campag euros rearwheel in the bargain.

surely a failure like this is a fault of the stem, i mean it completely shattered across the front between the 4 bolts. what can i, should i do ? is there some sort of legal redress i can take, i am now off the bike for a month and half at least, off work as well and my bike is stuffed.....

sorry about lack of caps, too hard typing one handed......

any thoughts ??

gkerr4

wow - so sorry to hear of your incident - it's like a worst nightmare scenario!

I would defintely speak with the importer / manufacturer - it doesn't seem right. as for compensation - it might be worth talking to (as much as I hate them) the no-fee brigade - just runthe scenario past them they will quickly realise if there is any money in it for them - ... erm - I mean for you.

hope your sholulder mends ok.

blorg

Sorry to hear about your injuries Sean.

There was a case settled relatively recently in the case of handlebar failure, in favour of the injured rider. Basically if the failure was a manufacturing defect and not due to misuse/damage to the component, you may well have a case. Make sure to keep the bike and components as is if you go down this route.

I expect you will find a wide range of opinions on "accidents happen, live with it," the need to find someone to blame for everything, etc. but if it is genuinely a manufacturing defect then I reckon you have a legitimate case and maybe it does need to be looked at, maybe the stem/batch needs to be recalled.

gkerr4

blorg wrote:

Sorry to hear about your injuries Sean.
I expect you will find a wide range of opinions on "accidents happen, live with it," the need to find someone to blame for everything, etc. but if it is genuinely a manufacturing defect then I reckon you have a legitimate case and maybe it does need to be looked at, maybe the stem/batch needs to be recalled.[/quote

I agree with the case against a genuine defect and certainly was not saying "accidents happen" - I disagree with the sue-everyone concept but clearly the OP has been hurt seriously (and could have been worse!) through the failure of a component.

ride_whenever

ah, but were the bolts torqued correctly. The faceplate shearing could be caused by overtightening the bolts. (sorry devils advocate) I hope you heal up okay and get it resolved to your satisfaction.

I would suggest talking to Condor about it and try to settle it like gentlemen, it is a far nicer way to run the world and will make you feel much better inside, just don't go in guns blazing, just politely ask to speak to the manager and have a quiet word with him.

Down the Road

Wo fitted the stem.

roadiesean

I did, very careful not to overtighten though with carbon bars, very cautious. don't want to go in all guns blazing, lets see what they say. very lucky, very frightened, recently going very fast downhill, thank God didn't happen then !!

il_principe

Jaysus, you poor sod. I agree with ride_whenever, have a quiet word. I run a Deda 100 as well, going to check it as soon as I'm home. I doubt it's the result of you overtightening though, esp with carbon bars, surely they'd show the strain first if that was the case? Are the bars ruined as well? If Condor are difficult perhaps the CTC's solicitors could help?

Hope you heal quickly.

Down the Road

Usual cause of face plate failure is un equal tension across the plate. If it is oval at all you are concentrating the stress at the point of ovality. It does not need to be over tight to cause this. If you look you will see the torque spec on most stems is very low.

If fitted by yourself it will be difficult to find fault with the product

Tom Butcher

I would go straight to a solicitor

roadiesean

not a scratch on the bars, all bolts to the same torque, 2 months old. far out these things are what we put our life in the hands of !! surely anyone should be able to well fit parts to their bikes without risking our life. i don't know of a single LBS that owns a torque wrench low enough for stems etc, they mostly use the "looks 'bout right" school of spannering (and rightly so - if these things are so bloody tight on the clearances side of things, we should stop using them.

anyone agree ??

roadiesean

not a scratch on the bars, all bolts to the same torque, 2 months old. far out these things are what we put our life in the hands of !! surely anyone should be able to well fit parts to their bikes without risking our life. i don't know of a single LBS that owns a torque wrench low enough for stems etc, they mostly use the "looks 'bout right" school of spannering (and rightly so - if these things are so bloody tight on the clearances side of things, we should stop using them.

anyone agree ??

PeteinSQ

I agree with you. This tale has put me off ever buying carbon bars or stems.

aracer

PeteinSQ wrote:

I agree with you. This tale has put me off ever buying carbon bars or stems.

Shouldn't it put you off buying aluminium stems? :roll:

PeteinSQ

Is it an aluminium stem? Jesus, I had assumed it was carbon...

PeteinSQ

Is it an aluminium stem? Jesus, I had assumed it was carbon...

I hadn't realised that aluminium had narrow stress ranges (although I was aware that aluminium will eventually break I don't think 2 months counts as eventual).

aracer

PeteinSQ wrote:

I hadn't realised that aluminium had narrow stress ranges

It does (as does any material) if you're trying to make something as light as possible by using minimal amounts of material.

roadiesean

nope, ally. ridiculous and very, very scary really !!!

saying a few quiet thanks on sunday, could have been MUCH worse !!

giant_man

Hope that shoulder repairs quick for you mate, horrific tale, so unlucky dude

roadiesean

thanks all for the thoughts, feeling battered but very fortunate all things considered !!

ColinJ

What make/model of bars were they?

synchronicity

roadiesean wrote:

i don't know of a single LBS that owns a torque wrench low enough for stems etc, they mostly use the "looks 'bout right" school of spannering (and rightly so - if these things are so bloody tight on the clearances side of things, we should stop using them.

anyone agree ??

I agree. Most bike shops don't use torque wrenches because they're overloaded with work and it's a pita using them.

I used to use them, never broke anything in 10 years, bought 2, and stripped 2 bolts within a week. Ever since, I go by feel.

Unless you have a majorly serious permanent diability/injury, I wouldn't worry about litigation. I'd at least expect a replacement stem & see what else they can do for you where you bought it.

pjm-84

Yikes.

I now using Deda Newton due to a Tune 2 bolts stem breaking on me whilst riding. Like you I went tumbling down the road but luckily escaped injury.

I now own a Sealy torque wrench. Suggested torque for these bolts seems high at 8n/mm and mine is around the more normal 6n/mm mark ( Ritchey / Thompson etc). with no bar slippage.

Monty Dog

If you are serious about your claim, I'd take the remnants of your stem to a materials specialist or even the metallurgy department at your local university - to those in the know it is easy to identify the style of failure and the point of propogation and therefore the likely cause of failure. I'd do that first before taking giving it back to the shop who 'lost it in the post' I think the recent court case regarding MTB handlebar failure was due to previous problems with a product recall.

gkerr4

PeteinSQ wrote:

Is it an aluminium stem? Jesus, I had assumed it was carbon...

I assumed that also - but on a quick check - it is indeed aluminium!

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/p/Cycle/7/Deda_ ... 360034667/

andrew_s

ColinJ wrote:

What make/model of bars were they?

If they weren't Deda bars, that will be the first excuse.

If the bars are a larger size than the clamp eg 26.2 bars in a 26.0 stem, it can cause faceplate failure as it's being wedged apart. Fortunately I was on flat bars, so disaster did not ensue.

ColinJ

andrew_s wrote:

ColinJ wrote:

What make/model of bars were they?

If they weren't Deda bars, that will be the first excuse.

If the bars are a larger size than the clamp eg 26.2 bars in a 26.0 stem, it can cause faceplate failure as it's being wedged apart. Fortunately I was on flat bars, so disaster did not ensue.

I'm thinking the opposite in this case - that the bars might have been too small a diameter. That stem is designed for 31.7 mm oversize bars and if much smaller bars were used, the plate would only contact the bars properly at the front and would be stressed when it was tightened up.

jonnyv

Sorry to hear of your accident, hope you're on the mend.

If you read the reviews here
http://www.roadbikereview.com/cat/contr ... px#reviews

a number of the contributors seem to have had problems with their Deda stems, may be relevant to any action you're planning to take.

Bern.

Our shop Manager brought this thread to my attention.

I am sorry to hear of this incedent and would like to re-assure that we will investigate it fully.

We use a lot of Deda stems, approximately 2,500+ per year. The quality of the models we use is extremely high. We fit Logo, Big Logo, Quattro, Zero 100, Zero 100 service course, Newton and Newton Pista. Both of our workshops use torque wrenches to keep within manufacturers guidlines which is very important these days with so many carbon products on the market.

Comnpared to any other manufacturer we have used in the past we have had the lowest number of returns from Deda Stems and bars and the majority of warranty items have been replaced by Deda. This is only the second Zero 100 stem that I have seen to fail. The other one was at the rear of the stem and cracked due to being tightened while not fully covering the steerer.

I have the offending stem in my possesion and will be taking it to Deda to discuss it with their product manager who is responsible for all of their stems.

As some general advice I would always recommend using a torque wrench. Personally I think a lot of manufacturers state torque settings a little high. Also be aware that even with a torque wrench it is easy to go beyond the setting. once the torque wrench clicks the first time, that should be it.

Most manufacturers don't recommend using their products in conjunction with other brands as there can be small differences in tolerances between them. This is more crucial when looking at high end or carbon products.

When using high end bars and stems I tend to change them once a year to avoid any unseen problems. Always replace your bars if you crash, drop the bike heavily on the bars, or scratch or score the bars in any way. I once nearly sacked a mechanic for cutting old bar tape from some carbon bars with a stanley knife. They had to be thrown away and replaced.

Personally, I am not a fan of carbon bars or stems. They don't offer any great advantage, cost a whole lot more and you have to be so careful with them.

I will update on what happens when I talk with Deda. I will be meeting them in early September to show them the stem.

NathanTweed

Just in case anyone thinks this is an issue which has been addressed, it hasn’t. I had a 7 month old deda zero 100 stem on my bike, and two days ago the face plate catastrophically failed while riding down a hill. Cuts, bruises and abou £500 damage to bike and helmet. Could have been much worse!!

roadiesean

Wow 10 years goes fast. So sorry you have had the same problem @nathantweed.

The outcome was that Deda settled out of court. I received a considerable settlement but still suffer with shoulder issues a decade later.

I always used a torque wrench and still do. I also almost never sit on the hoods going downhill and breaking anymore. At least if I’m on the drops and it happens again I feel like I won’t just go straight over the bars.

Strangely I was at the original launch of Sky back in whatever it was ‘09 maybe and I was talking to Allan Peiper, a fellow Aussie and I told him about my problem as they also were using Deda Zero 100 and he was like “Jesus don’t tell the boys” I believe they changed them after this but I might be wrong.

Only ever used Thomson stems and posts since this (and a Moots one also).

Life is short. Take care.