Cycling Weekly / Tour of Britain

iainf72

Some interesting comments today about LPR's invite.

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/The ... 65066.html

Does this mean the Comic will be putting their money where their mouths are and not cover the race?

Titanium

By all means cover the race but ask tough questions.
I was sad to see the race director promoting these liars. Nice to see that this magazine shares a similar view.
But that is quite a strong view, normally the words you see on internet forums and not in editorials. I'm fully supportive. I feel like buying 10 copies today as a gesture but I will email them to encourage them for their bravery.

iainf72

I disagree. If they feel that strongly they should refuse to cover the event. Just put a note in the magazine that they refuse to cover it because of who's been invited.

How many other riders will be present who have dubious pasts but have never served any kind of ban? Are they also not lying?

LangerDan

I thought Cycling Weekly didn't cover racing anyway, what with all these Etapes/Gran Fondos going on and Rapha press-releases to paste up.

A month ago, CW were in a snot over mobile phones. Next month it will probably be because the new Shimano electronic groupset doesn't use batteries you can buy in the Post Office.

The problem with CW sticking on the 34x27 and heading for the high moral ground is that for reasons of balance, they should also refuse to give coverage to Holy David and also Columbia (on the grounds that a short year ago, it was still T-Mobile in name and behaviour)

sicrow

They should cover it after all they are a publication on cycling, they should criticise the organisers for the promotion of di luca & petacchi et al

They SHOULD take the stance they are doing , as to say nothing only "buries heads in the sand" and I presume we all want to show our disgust about dopers so Cover it. If either do well thats the time to criticse the organisers & riders - enough poor media and they won't do it again

Not covering it would be a "principle" decision and as I was taught "priciple over common sense never solved anything"

Titanium

No, people change. Cycling has been in a bad way but those condeming doping are to be encouraged. Columbia are moving on and the guys are not perfect but they are centuries ahead of Ricco, ol' elephant lungs Petacchi and Di Luca.
Di Luca isn't going to apologise or denounce doping, he's not spending his money like Millar on buying his team to make it doping-free.

mididoctors

I think the comics article is where we want to be going.. From a UK perspective the Tour of britain with mark cavendish as a big star entry is enough... its a race that doesn't need big names.

having rock racing in your race is just embarrassing. why bother?

I would rather see a decent uk "club" team like Glendene cc than that lot in the ToB (realistically I think they would find it an ask but i enjoy watching guys trying to hang on at the back).

a uk wildcard for a non trade team rather than team dubious international washouts..

why not it would make their life to be spat out the back by pros... or ride above themselves to hang on inside the time limit.. just a thought.

if cycle races well lower down the pecking order made no room for these guys and not just "le tour" the message really would be out there.

in fact the ToB would gain more press from not inviting these teams... the problem with that idea is these teams may have never approached the ToB for entry in the first place.

probably the other way round.. I dunno on that score

they get an invite or did they ask?

invite yes?

I emailed the ToB expressing my concern, took all of 2mins of my life

mididoctors

not that realistic idea having a club team... more realisticaly a different regional club/low end trade guest team on each stage.. so each of the stages had a low rent uk team entry and ditch one of pro squads.. if rock racing is as good as you can get ...

the logistics for a uk tour are out of reach for a lot of uk teams but not one stage.

do more for british cycling than having so called high profile teams like LPR and rock racing.

Jez mon

I think the ToB seriously needs to reevaluate its race route strategy, I know it is good to share the love, but the enormous transfers make it a nightmare for smaller teams.

A local race team for each local stage sounds like a good idea, HOWEVER, it could play havoc with the GC if they were able to race and if they just got dropped it would be embarrassing/dangerous to marshal.

At the end of the day, i really think the ToB/BCF needs to look at getting a very high quality race in the country, which teams want to win. Personally i would like to see a one day race with closed roads. London-Brighton-London has a nice ring to it (Liege-Bastogne-Liege)!!

vermooten

CW could do more for cycling by covering the race and making it clear that it's a sham full of junkies, rather than ignoring it altogether.

mididoctors

Jez mon wrote:

I think the ToB seriously needs to reevaluate its race route strategy, I know it is good to share the love, but the enormous transfers make it a nightmare for smaller teams.

A local race team for each local stage sounds like a good idea, HOWEVER, it could play havoc with the GC if they were able to race and if they just got dropped it would be embarrassing/dangerous to marshal.

yeah conceded.. there are a lot of problems with the idea..not least the one you mention..

i think such teams wouldn't be riding the GC and as you say it stretches the rolling road closure if they are blasted out the back... thou "two speed pelotons" such as in the tour of malaysia can work..

selfpropelledpaolo

if you take a look in the publications who are expressing such righteous indignation at the inclusion of teams such as Rock Racing in ToB and then consider who they're prepared to take their advertising revenue from. Their moral pontification starts to look a little hollow.

Mr pot, have you met mr kettle?

GroupOfOne MkII

Yeah I've noticed both Cycle Sport / Procycling taking large adverts from Rock Racing, so it does seem a bit rich Cycling Weekly complaining, when if they feel that strongly IPC Media shouldn't be taking their advertising.

Also I can't help but feel that if the ToB didn't have some of these teams and say did replace them with small British domestic teams then there'd be complaints about not having the big names riding the race.

iainf72

Titanium wrote:

Columbia are moving on and the guys are not perfect but they are centuries ahead of Ricco, ol' elephant lungs Petacchi and Di Luca.
Di Luca isn't going to apologise or denounce doping, he's not spending his money like Millar on buying his team to make it doping-free.

Are they? Or do you want to believe they are? Witness their utterly cowardly old skool behaviour about Mick Rogers. Hiring riders as mentors who definately have "baggage" and would be as up for admitting naughtiness as Jan Ullrich. Pretty words and a few clean riders doth not make a team moving things forward.

[How long has it been since I had a go at that team - Feels good]

You know who the riders on Columbia or Garmin are who have probably doped in the last 8 years. I ain't seen any of them lining up to fess up, do their 2 years and then come back. So in that respect are they any different to Di Luca (who wasn't found guility of doping, just of knowing a naughty doctor)

The rules say Di Luca / Petacchi etc can compete. They were punished for breaking the rules so if we're so concerned about rules should we not follow them generally. These "unwritten rules" and changing things for your own purposes is just the same as keeping your yapper shut about doping.

FullFrameRob

Jez mon wrote:

I think the ToB seriously needs to reevaluate its race route strategy, I know it is good to share the love, but the enormous transfers make it a nightmare for smaller teams.

A local race team for each local stage sounds like a good idea, HOWEVER, it could play havoc with the GC if they were able to race and if they just got dropped it would be embarrassing/dangerous to marshal.

At the end of the day, i really think the ToB/BCF needs to look at getting a very high quality race in the country, which teams want to win. Personally i would like to see a one day race with closed roads. London-Brighton-London has a nice ring to it (Liege-Bastogne-Liege)!!

Nah, a 200km Sheffield-Manchester-Sheffield crossing the Peak District twice sounds much better.

Jez mon

No grumpy southerners complaining about road closures for a cycle race either...bloody cyclists I paid for this road with my road tax etc...

moray_gub

iainf72 wrote:

Titanium wrote:

Columbia are moving on and the guys are not perfect but they are centuries ahead of Ricco, ol' elephant lungs Petacchi and Di Luca.
Di Luca isn't going to apologise or denounce doping, he's not spending his money like Millar on buying his team to make it doping-free.

Are they? Or do you want to believe they are? Witness their utterly cowardly old skool behaviour about Mick Rogers. Hiring riders as mentors who definately have "baggage" and would be as up for admitting naughtiness as Jan Ullrich. Pretty words and a few clean riders doth not make a team moving things forward.

[How long has it been since I had a go at that team - Feels good]

.

What has Mick Rodgers done as far as taking PEDs goes and im not taking about tittle tattle ......... ? His misdemeanour must have passed me by.

cheers
MG

mididoctors

selfpropelledpaolo wrote:

if you take a look in the publications who are expressing such righteous indignation at the inclusion of teams such as Rock Racing in ToB and then consider who they're prepared to take their advertising revenue from. Their moral pontification starts to look a little hollow.

Mr pot, have you met mr kettle?

fair point but at the same time its kinda refreshing to see the editorial not support the advertising line...

does the incongruity of it all make a point?

"we're going to take your money but still slag you off"

iainf72

Moray Gub wrote:

What has Mick Rodgers done as far as taking PEDs goes and im not taking about tittle tattle ......... ? His misdemeanour must have passed me by.

He was on T-Mobile 06, allegedly part of the Freiberg convoy and a customer of Dr Ferrari. You may call that tittle tattle but I call it a lot of smoke.

Kléber

iainf72 wrote:

You know who the riders on Columbia or Garmin are who have probably doped in the last 8 years. I ain't seen any of them lining up to fess up, do their 2 years and then come back. So in that respect are they any different to Di Luca (who wasn't found guility of doping, just of knowing a naughty doctor)

The rules say Di Luca / Petacchi etc can compete. They were punished for breaking the rules so if we're so concerned about rules should we not follow them generally. These "unwritten rules" and changing things for your own purposes is just the same as keeping your yapper shut about doping.

On Columbia and Garmin, yes some riders appear to have escaped their past but at least today they are condemning doping and trying to work for teams that are opposed to doping. Some are more outspoken than others but compare this to Di Luca who if asked about doping would only reply "I am calm" and his team has no anti-doping program, it probably has the very opposite.

I'm all in favour of rules but the current rules are weak and I'd like to see more ethics in place. So I support Cycling Weekly's bold move. Cycling won't fight doping until the people involved - including the media - round on the cheats rather than indulge in omerta. So a small step here but a good one. And as others have said, the likes of Di Luca, Petacchi and many on the Rock Racing roster have no place in cycling, the sooner they leave the sport, the better. Hamilton and Landis have yet to admit their guilt.

iainf72

[quote="Kléber"
On Columbia and Garmin, yes some riders appear to have escaped their past but at least today they are condemning doping and trying to work for teams that are opposed to doping. [/quote]

I'm struggling to see how they're different from a Di Luca? They will not admit to anything and worse hide under a mask of righteousness now. Doesn't that make them worse?

FJS

nypd wrote:

Jez mon wrote:

At the end of the day, i really think the ToB/BCF needs to look at getting a very high quality race in the country, which teams want to win. Personally i would like to see a one day race with closed roads. London-Brighton-London has a nice ring to it (Liege-Bastogne-Liege)!!

Nah, a 200km Sheffield-Manchester-Sheffield crossing the Peak District twice sounds much better.

Fully agree (with both really)... Why not start with organising a World Championships? When was Goodwood? Sheff would be a brilliant location....

Jez mon

The problem with world champs would be that it needs a large city to be closed for a really long weekend! It's not just the men's road race, there is women and U23 Road races and TTs.

moray_gub

iainf72 wrote:

Moray Gub wrote:

What has Mick Rodgers done as far as taking PEDs goes and im not taking about tittle tattle ......... ? His misdemeanour must have passed me by.

He was on T-Mobile 06, allegedly part of the Freiberg convoy and a customer of Dr Ferrari. You may call that tittle tattle but I call it a lot of smoke.

So thats it ? hears me thinking it was something concrete .........Yep tittle tattle right enough.

cheers
MG

moray_gub

iainf72 wrote:

[quote="Kléber"
On Columbia and Garmin, yes some riders appear to have escaped their past but at least today they are condemning doping and trying to work for teams that are opposed to doping.

I'm struggling to see how they're different from a Di Luca? They will not admit to anything and worse hide under a mask of righteousness now. Doesn't that make them worse?[/quote]


It would seem your somewhat obsessional hatred of all thing T-Mobile/High Road/CC is blinding you to the possibility that some riders have got absolutely nothing to admit.

cheers
MG

LangerDan

Jez mon wrote:

The problem with world champs would be that it needs a large city to be closed for a really long weekend! It's not just the men's road race, there is women and U23 Road races and TTs.

In reality, you have to take a large area out of use for the full week to facilitate installation of all the race infrastructure (and take it out again afterwardds). In addition, I'd imagine you'd get little change from £5 - 10 million to properly host a Worlds

iainf72

Moray Gub wrote:

It would seem your somewhat obsessional hatred of all thing T-Mobile/High Road/CC is blinding you to the possibility that some riders have got absolutely nothing to admit.

Possibly.

Kléber

Iain, the point is surely that Big George is happy to ride for a team where he doesn't have to risk his health to please a certain Texan. Today he's probably riding clean, but who knows. But Di Luca and Petacchi are still at it, Petacchi got sacked earlier this year and he hasn't even apologised.

I know ending the omerta means coming out against doping and that for some riders with a dodgy past, this is hard if not impossible. But surely Columbia is going in the right direction, compared to LPR which looks like a relic from the 1990s?

Jez mon

iainf72 and Moray Gub

It seems that many riders in the High Road/Garmin set ups have skeletons in their closets. HOWEVER, hopefully they are not doping any longer. Yes, many of the riders have got away with it, however, I think if we were to ban every rider who has doped within the peleton, we would have very few pros left. All we can realistically do is to clean up today's peleton, revealing said skeletons doesn't do that. What will help to do that is to introduce stringent testing and a clean ethic within the teams. LPR brakes, Luquigas and American Beef do not seem to have that, they are not helping the sport and they should not be welcome.

Basso, Petchacci and DiLuca have done very little to convince us they are sorry and that they have turned the corner. People will complain about Millar until the end of time, but give me Millar over, any of those three.

iainf72

Kléber wrote:

I know ending the omerta means coming out against doping and that for some riders with a dodgy past, this is hard if not impossible. But surely Columbia is going in the right direction, compared to LPR which looks like a relic from the 1990s?

Where I'm coming from is people are talking about riders lying. And surely those people on those "clean" teams who have a dodgy past are also lying. They may be riding clean now and if they are, that's wonderful. However calling out Di Luca or Petacchi for being a liar is a bit rich when they're about as honest as the clean team riders.

DDL's case in particular is an interesting one because like some of the riders I allude to he's not actually failed a doping test.

iainf72

Jez mon wrote:

Basso, Petchacci and DiLuca have done very little to convince us they are sorry and that they have turned the corner. People will complain about Millar until the end of time, but give me Millar over, any of those three.

Millar is different because he's admitted something and done his time. So in that respect he's got room to talk.

Basso - Well, imagine if he had told the truth. There would be no CSC, would there?