For all those of you who suspected Sella...

pinerellopaul

I refer to sella of course not contador who i understand has a fine pair of nashers after his recent treatment at the dentist post giro

mididoctors

RichN95 wrote:

At the Tour Ricco was nearly four minutes down on GC by stage 9 and liable to lose 5 minutes in the the final TT, so no-one was particularly bothered about chasing him. At the Giro any move would have been countered immediately.

not so sure what you mean about this... apologies in advance if I misread your meaning.

the spanish boiler makers were just sitting in each day getting a tow to Paris.. they all started wandering up the GC in a worrying manner.

the polka dot was a certainty and the podium wasn't impossible.. nor was the white jersey

after stage 10 he would have to be marked. at Prato Nervosa having that lot in the final would have distorted the race even if they either;

tested positive before paris

or

didn't make the podium.

the stage finish would be built around tactics factoring them in. what if sastre went away with ricco/peep holy on the alpe and busted evans wide open.. etc etc etc (insert scenario here)

riders in the top 10 on GC are a factor in the race..it was good they got shot of them before the alps is all I can say.


contador...? I dunno hard to say.. wouldn't be too surprised .

I wish buyneel left the sport when he said he was.. just for everyones piece of mind.

I read a post somewhere on the forum that maybe Bruyneel would come back and win straight..he would just view it as a new challenge... I wasn't impressed with his tour coverage.. bob stapleton read it well and bob roll called it pre the alps!

interesting times in cycling.

unclemalc

....while watching. each year you hope that no-one will be stupid enough after last year - and each year it's the same.

stjohnswell - I agree, but you must always assume that the number of cheats is being reduced on the basis that they are getting found out, and that the detection science is keeping up with the ways to cheat.
If you can't bring yourself to believe that then every time someone does a special ride in a big event, you'll just think 'Doping...'
The announcement over Sella has pissed me off nicely today but, with hindsight (of course), it now seems obvious - how could one individual be SO dominant when all others were struggling.
I am sort of dreading the Olympic results already.....

jpembroke

If you ignore the cyclists and just admire the scenery then watching bike racing is actually quite palatable. Perhaps in years to come we'll just sit and watch 3 weeks of aerial shots of mountains without any actual cycling because they've all been banned.

mididoctors

LangerDan wrote:

The thing I find most disquieting is that if it wasn't for the development of the CERA test, these guys wouldn't have been caught. From the palmares of several of those who have been nabbed, it is reasonable to assume that they have been doping for quite some time and certainly prior to the availability of the supposedly undetectable 3rd generation EPO. Furthermore, their blood values were already screwed up enough to warrant specific targetting for increased testing. Yet they were able to pass all the other random in - and out-of competition tests for the past year or two as well as the tests that come from winning / leading jersey categories.

The fact that a rider from low-budget ProContinental squad has been able to access the resources required to remain undetectable by the supposedly highest level of testing is worrying. McQuaid, Prudhomme and others should be sending a little thank-you card and some chocolates to Roche.

I'm less worried.. what struck me was the sharp changes in pace on the mountains seemed to have disappeared..and more insightfully the relatively low numbers of guys running for cover..

when it became clear that you could get caught on this stuff the number of riders exiting stage left because "my dog eat my homework" was not as high as I thought it was going to be.

the picture emerging ..at least to my eyes is the surprisingly low level of blood vector shenanigans going on.. not just now but in the past.

I think a lot of riders in the armstrong era have the right to feel cheated as the depth of use was not as deep as I first thought.. (though obviously everyone that mattered was)..

I'm glad Sastre won.. i just hope he doesn't test positive.. I forgive him some indiscretion in his past but that jersey better be clean..or at the very least blood vector clean (am I asking too much?)

I'm optimistic.. why not

Philip S

mididoctors wrote:

I read a post somewhere on the forum that maybe Bruyneel would come back and win straight..he would just view it as a new challenge... I wasn't impressed with his tour coverage.. bob stapleton read it well and bob roll called it pre the alps!

Could you elaborate on this? I must have missed the bit of coverage you're talking about, but it sounds interesting.

mididoctors

Philip S wrote:

mididoctors wrote:

I read a post somewhere on the forum that maybe Bruyneel would come back and win straight..he would just view it as a new challenge... I wasn't impressed with his tour coverage.. bob stapleton read it well and bob roll called it pre the alps!

Could you elaborate on this? I must have missed the bit of coverage you're talking about, but it sounds interesting.

hard to recover on that hold on....

[url]feed://downloads.itv.com/podcast-tdf08.xml[/url]

for bob rolls take stage 16 but he said it earlier somewhere... IIRC

bruyneels take on bicycling mags website here was rubbish and frankly rather patronising both to followers of the sport and other managers

first he talked up Riccos performances while the consensus... (no doubt voiced here) was Ricco was so uncredable he wasn't going to get to paris...

guessed so myself..it wasn't difficult to see..

then after he tested positive he doesn't mention it on his "blog" and instead changes subject.. in a way I think Bruyneel needs "performers" like Ricco in the race

then after alpe d'huez calls cadel along with a lot of others.. eve of the time trial quote

BRUYNEEL'S TAKE: CSC's teamwork is fueling its success so far, but Cadel Evans will win the 2008 Tour de France.

but afterwards he rewrote his appraisal of alpe d'heuz

The battle waged between Sastre and Evans today started on Alpe d'Huez. Back then I was suspicious that Evans had developed a dangerous chink in his armor. Evan's response to Sastre's surge on Alpe d'Huez was late and lackluster. It was easy to dismiss Evan's decision to let Sastre ride up the mountain to a two-minute lead as the prudent gamble of a man confident in his time trialing ability. But I think Evans was flustered by CSC's bait and switch tactic of putting Frank Schleck in the jersey a few days before. In the end Evans simply couldn't respond to Sastre. Evans response looked weak and tempered in the mountains.

never mind the dodgyness the way he talks down to everyone is just annoying.


bob stapletons prediction before stage 20 time trial..

Bob Stapleton (Team Columbia manager): Sastre looks really good to me. He's ridden a really smart Tour, not really extending himself too much until Alpe d'Huez. I just don't think that Evans will ride the time trial of his life. We've seen what a toll this race has taken on our guys, so freshness is going to be so important. It's Sastre's race to lose. Oh, and the big surprise will be Bernhard Kohl holding on to third overall. He's a much better time trialist than people give him credit for

shows the difference of understanding being inside the race as opposed to watching it brings.

both bobs are guys to listen too on this count

Philip S

Thanks for that, mididoctors!

OllyBianchi

"The fact that a rider from low-budget ProContinental squad has been able to access the resources required to remain undetectable by the supposedly highest level of testing is worrying."

Didn't Ricco claim to owe Ali the Chemist 700 euros for his CERA?
That's the whole problem really - you can buy enought EPO or CERA to fly up the mountains for less that most people spend on a carbon frame.
Then all you need is a fridge to store it in and a red pen to mark on your calander days when you have to give the testers the slip.
As cheating goes, it's about as easy and cheap as it gets...

LangerDan

The issue with any of the PEDs is not the cost of the materials, its the cost and effort of managing and administering. Many of those who have been nabbed over the past few years have been caught by making a complete balls-up of this part of the process.

flattythehurdler

I sort of agree with you langerdan, but for me, the most encouraging sign in the tour was, with the odd exception, the blistering attacks were gone. It was more a case of clinging on for dear life in the leading group and trying to match slow accelerations as people gradually fell off the back wheel but able, on occasion , to recover and regain it. More like racing in the real world.

Kléber

Charly Gaul, Federico Bahamontes and others were known for their searing attacks in the mountains. Clearly they were not on EPO or blood doping, so be careful to equate a certain style of racing with doping.

Ricco could attack like he did without EPO, only he would have blown up, anyone can accelerate hard, it's staying away that is the hard bit. So maybe the doping helped him but his style of riding, if he were clean, would be similar. Besides, Sastre put in a storming acceleration to Alpe d'Huez.

iainf72

According to Gazzetta, it's likely Sella will confess on his lawyers advice. They're just not sure how much detail he'll give.

Kléber

Lawyer's advice? Maybe one day a rider will say, "Fair cop, my urine was full of so much EPO it could be recycled to help supply a chemotherapy ward for a year. I cheated, I'm sorry and we need to improve the system, for my health and the image of a sport as a whole, doping has to stop. From now on, I reject the management, the team doctor and the others with corrupt ways who've profited from doping me".

Yorkman

Kléber wrote:

Lawyer's advice? Maybe one day a rider will say, "Fair cop, my urine was full of so much EPO it could be recycled to help supply a chemotherapy ward for a year. I cheated, I'm sorry and we need to improve the system, for my health and the image of a sport as a whole, doping has to stop. From now on, I reject the management, the team doctor and the others with corrupt ways who've profited from doping me".

Not when it carries a prison sentence, they won't!!

iainf72

Sella confessed during the hearing today and detailed where he got the CERA from etc.

deal

iainf72 wrote:

Sella confessed during the hearing today and detailed where he got the CERA from etc.

Sella and his lawyer met with CONI prosecutors for two hours on Friday. During the meeting, Sella admitted to the use of CERA and provided information concerning how he obtained the drug. According to press reports, he named a "noted doctor" in Veneto, previously targetted in an investigation. He also named a "former important figure" in the Italian national team organization.

http://www.podiumcafe.com/2008/8/8/589538/sella-admits