For all those of you who suspected Sella...

Salsiccia

http://www.gazzetta.it/Ciclismo/Primo_Piano/2008/08/05/sella_0508.shtml

Translation

dave_1

surprise surpise...at least his domination suggests many were too scared to use CERA...which means it was a relatively clean field?

bipedal

sad but no shock

deal

For all those of you who suspected Sella...

pretty much everyone then

alanmcn1

Can this be confirmed. i can't find it anywhere else.

No shock at all, good riddance to the slimey little worm. His Giro performances made me sick with rage

guv001

No shocker there, do you think he really had tendonitis or a fear of a new test....

Heres another link that reads a little easier..

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id= ... /aug06news

Yorkman

Targetted testing, suggests they have a patient list for the Dr.

I hope so.

bipedal

despite CONIs efforts Italian cycling is in free-fall

One good thing though - the test was by the UCI, so looks like they have caught up and are testing for CERA, which can only be good news

deejay

bipedal wrote:

despite CONIs efforts Italian cycling is in free-fall

One good thing though - the test was by the UCI, so looks like they have caught up and are testing for CERA, which can only be good news

CERA is a ROCHE product from Swiss and at the time of Ricco it was stated that the Swiss Laboratory had been working with them on the test proceedure of the new drug.

I understand the UCI use this Laboratory for their tests.

All I want now is a German to be caught as they have got away with it for 15 years.

Cumulonimbus

Cumulonimbus wrote:

]

deejay wrote:

bipedal wrote:

despite CONIs efforts Italian cycling is in free-fall

One good thing though - the test was by the UCI, so looks like they have caught up and are testing for CERA, which can only be good news

CERA is a ROCHE product from Swiss and at the time of Ricco it was stated that the Swiss Laboratory had been working with them on the test proceedure of the new drug.

I understand the UCI use this Laboratory for their tests.

McQuaid says it was sent to Paris

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id= ... /aug06news

Makes me wonder why he was using it when Ricco had just been caught (unless it was still detectable in his system - i know that it can be used long term but Ricco only tested positive 2 out of 10 times).

Actually, re-reading the cyclingnews page, the last line sticks out

'Sella was due to make his racing return at the Trofeo Matteotti, July 20. The Ireland-registered team of Italian Bruno Reverberi pulled him out at the last minute due to tendonitis.'

Coincidence that Ricco tested positive just two (i think) days before?

dave_1

alanmcn1 wrote:

Can this be confirmed. i can't find it anywhere else.

No shock at all, good riddance to the slimey little worm. His Giro performances made me sick with rage

I missed most of the televised Giro but quickly realised most were equal at the Giro but the sella character was obviously juiced as was so far ahead on the climbs....I will onyl believe victories which are close...

deejay

I know what cyclingnews says regarding Mc Quid and it could be true the UCI are still using that antiquated laboratory. (after the Landis evidence).

The TDF was reported to use the Swiss laboratory.

The Olympics are based in Suisse also.

Mc Quid and Heinie and their alleged backhanders, well who knows.

drenkrom

So shall we retest all of Navigare's Giro samples again? Sella was not the only suspect in there for me.

stjohnswell

damn, this is getting annoying. i really enjoyed watching his performances in the giro. it's getting harder and harder to suspend my disbelief while watching. each year you hope that no-one will be stupid enough after last year - and each year it's the same.
:roll:

that said i'm looking forward to the olympics and world cup already.
8)

ricadus

At least the scenery of the Fedaia pass and the Dolomites remains stunning to watch.

Kléber

Cumulonimbus wrote:

Coincidence that Ricco tested positive just two (i think) days before?

No, some of the hardened cynics on here (myself included) raised an eyebrow at the time.

If Sella was busted on 23 July in an out of competition control and the molecule was still in him, I wonder if Contador wants to volunteer for a test?

mrushton

stjohnswell wrote:

that said i'm looking forward to the olympics and world cup already.
8)

Of course there will be no doped athletes/swimmers etc at Beijing will there

ermintrude

It's becoming easy to spot now, any rider who decimates the rest of the field. Schumacher remains a suspect for me not Contador.

dulldave

It's pretty likely that Contador has had an out of competition test since the Giro. If you develop a new test, the first people you're going to think about testing are the winners of the last major competitions.

The conspiracy is more fun to believe I guess.

dulldave

I agree about Schumacher. It's a shame because I thought he was pretty exciting during the tour. But given the attacks he made in the mountains I was surprised he was able to put in such a good final TT.

Richrd2205

Kléber wrote:

Cumulonimbus wrote:

Coincidence that Ricco tested positive just two (i think) days before?

No, some of the hardened cynics on here (myself included) raised an eyebrow at the time.

If Sella was busted on 23 July in an out of competition control and the molecule was still in him, I wonder if Contador wants to volunteer for a test?

Responding to your posts in both threads....
Bruyneel has clearly worked with folk whose performance dropped and/or got caught doping after they left his charge. So he's either an amazing coach who can train people beyond the commonly accepted limits for humans or he's damned good at hiding doping, I make no presumptions. However, if it was the latter, why would his charges be using a new drug if there were established ways of doping that were not detectable? So CERA may or may not be present even if doping was occurring.
I've said this before & been shot down in flames, but there are reasonable grounds to suspect Contador. These suspicions could be destroyed in an instant if Astana would release the results of the Damsgaard testing. They haven't. Until they do, I'll draw my own conclusions.
Someone shouted on another thread that these results were being released, but I've yet to see reference to that anywhere else. I want to see a clean sport, so want to see those results for the removal of doubt....

RichN95.

Richrd2205 wrote:

These suspicions could be destroyed in an instant if Astana would release the results of the Damsgaard testing. They haven't. Until they do, I'll draw my own conclusions.
Someone shouted on another thread that these results were being released, but I've yet to see reference to that anywhere else. I want to see a clean sport, so want to see those results for the removal of doubt....

To be fair, Damsgaard is nobody's fool and he'd call foul if he saw a foul. He said in May that two CSC riders had unusual results and put them through extra testing to clear them * (like Hayles I suppose). Gusev has been sacked. They've only been with Damsgaard for about six months - it took at least that long for the first CSC results to be published.

I believe that first and foremost Bruyneel is a canny businessman and, after failing to get a new sponsor at Discovery, has seen the tide turning and moved accordingly.

*I believe that these two tests may explain why Schleck and Cancellara where tested a lot at the Tour. Report here, halfway down:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2007/may07/may14news

Kléber

It's just for the "avoidance of doubt". Once again Contador was trouncing guys using this new undetectable version of EPO. I get suspicious when one rider is so good he can lie on the beach one day, rip the legs of EPO users the next and it would be nice to see a test (and those Damsgaard data) just to help clear things up.

Mind you, I think it's mañana, mañana when it comes to the Spanish Federation doing out of control testing. They seem too busy burying the Puerto files. :roll:

iainf72

"Richrd2205 wrote:

Someone shouted on another thread that these results were being released, but I've yet to see reference to that anywhere else. I want to see a clean sport, so want to see those results for the removal of doubt....

Hi

What are your qualifications to analyse the data? What are you interested in particularly? HCT? OFF score? Something else?

Why are Columbia not facing the same questions from you? After all, chunks of their team were once trained by Michele Ferrari - They've had a star performer this year who came out of a Ferreti team etc. Is it because Bob looks cuddly?

secretsqirrel

Kléber wrote:

It's just for the "avoidance of doubt". Once again Contador was trouncing guys using this new undetectable version of EPO. I get suspicious when one rider is so good he can lie on the beach one day, rip the legs of EPO users the next and it would be nice to see a test (and those Damsgaard data) just to help clear things up.

Hmm...

I must have seen a different Giro. I can only recall Contador desperately trying to hang on in the mountains, and only winning the race by heavily relying on Kloden and Colom coaxing him up the climbs. :?

Jez mon

I agree that Contador didn't rip the legs off Ricco up the mountains.

But look at the difference between Ricco and the Giro peleton, and Ricco and the Tour peleton...at le Tour (which Ricco apparently wasn't trained for) Ricco was able to take out lots of time on mountains, easily...at the Giro he wasn't able to take out so much time up the mountains.

The thing is, you shouldn't be able to win a grand tour by not specifically building your training around it...surely

iainf72

Jez mon wrote:

The thing is, you shouldn't be able to win a grand tour by not specifically building your training around it...surely

Being fit and having good powers of recovery would be what's required. Contador would have still been very fit even if he wasn't preparing specifically for it. He says he planned on doing the first week and then bailing but his fitness came on so he stayed.

Menchov managed a 5'th when he was basically training for the Tour.

Jez mon

I suppose so, undoubtedly Contador is a talented rider. But still, he beat a number of riders who I presume had built their season around the Giro. DiLuca and Ricco for example. He did however, ride a very conservative race.

RichN95.

Jez mon wrote:

I agree that Contador didn't rip the legs off Ricco up the mountains.

But look at the difference between Ricco and the Giro peloton, and Ricco and the Tour peloton...at le Tour (which Ricco apparently wasn't trained for) Ricco was able to take out lots of time on mountains, easily...at the Giro he wasn't able to take out so much time up the mountains.

The thing is, you shouldn't be able to win a grand tour by not specifically building your training around it...surely

At the Tour Ricco was nearly four minutes down on GC by stage 9 and liable to lose 5 minutes in the the final TT, so no-one was particularly bothered about chasing him. At the Giro any move would have been countered immediately.

pinerellopaul

and to think how we all shared his tears of joy as he overcome those teeth with the ripping he must have received as a boy, to go on to greatness

i have those very mountain stages stored on my harddrive for viewing on a distant cold winters day to top up the motivation, i might as well delete the lot now :x

LangerDan

The thing I find most disquieting is that if it wasn't for the development of the CERA test, these guys wouldn't have been caught. From the palmares of several of those who have been nabbed, it is reasonable to assume that they have been doping for quite some time and certainly prior to the availability of the supposedly undetectable 3rd generation EPO. Furthermore, their blood values were already screwed up enough to warrant specific targetting for increased testing. Yet they were able to pass all the other random in - and out-of competition tests for the past year or two as well as the tests that come from winning / leading jersey categories.

The fact that a rider from low-budget ProContinental squad has been able to access the resources required to remain undetectable by the supposedly highest level of testing is worrying. McQuaid, Prudhomme and others should be sending a little thank-you card and some chocolates to Roche.