Riis Tactically inept ?

kellys_heroes
kellys_heroes Posts: 88
edited July 2008 in Pro race
well just as i thought, yesterday was boring.today was just predictable. CSC have got their just deserts by leaving it till the last day. did Bjarne Riis think that they were going to take 5 mins out of evans......as for Frank Schleck he rode like an amatuer today.anyone in their right mind could see evans was struggling if anyone who put in a serious attack...but schleck kept looking back as if oh am to scared if i blow.....Silence lotto must be laughing their heads off.. Carlos Sastre Couldnt time trial to save his life.....i would even bet CSC will only have a rider in 3rd place as Denis Menchov will fin in the top 3.
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Comments

  • mooro
    mooro Posts: 483
    you think so? I think their best chance was to let Evens make most of the running up the Alpe, after Sastre got clear. He would have chased down any attacks from Schleck reducing the time sastre put into him.

    see what happens over the next few days, lots can still happen, and Silence Lotto are such a weak team....
  • Jez mon
    Jez mon Posts: 3,809
    How on earth Riis is tactacally inept. WTF would you have done in his position IMO he played it very well, Sastre puts in a good TT, Evans doesn't have a great one and CSC win the yellow.
    You live and learn. At any rate, you live
  • ricadus
    ricadus Posts: 2,379
    He's like the super-villain in a James Bond movie that has a cunning-yet-complex master plan. It needs a supreme improviser (James Bond) to wreck it -- question is, is Evans is the man for that job?
  • Kléber
    Kléber Posts: 6,842
    As Rich95 said, some people seem to think it's Playstation game. Do you think that if Schleck could have left Evans for dead, then he would? Rather Schleck Senior was unable to get away, he might be able to attack but to get a meaningful gap seemed impossible. Same goes for yesterday, there was such a headwind on the final climb that the slightest attack was suicidal to any ambition.
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,549
    The more kellys heroes posts the more I think he knows nothing about cycling.
  • My only thought was that i wondered if Schleck the younger who looked strong should have got himself up the road to help Sastre not stayed to pull Frank along who seemed to be able to follow ok
  • campagchris
    campagchris Posts: 773
    If Frank had attacked, Evans would have followed him hence plan B which worked.Its just a shame young Andy got the knock last week as he seems to be a better climber than both the other 2 CSC lads up there.
    Kohl was following Frank as he's mariginally a better time trialist.Menchov was the other threat to Evans but lost out on the steep bit before fighting back.All Evans had to do was cut his losses to Frank as he could afford Sastre a little more leeway.Evans took 1-16 out of Sastre in the first T.T. Should be very interesting in the final T.T. now.
    Evans looked ok to me when responding to Frank. :roll:
  • drenkrom
    drenkrom Posts: 1,062
    The TV coverage showed a nice little scene after the finish where F. Schleck shook his head and looked completely cooked and unsatisfied. A. Schleck patted him on the back, seeming to say something to the effect of "it's not that bad, you got out of it fine". I think Frank just had nothing to give. Besides, the first thing you learn about bike racing as a kid is that you NEVER pull anyone up to a teammate.

    Is Riis tactically inept? I imagine him sitting in the front seat of the car of "the best cycling team in the world" (TM) answers that question.
  • DaveyL
    DaveyL Posts: 5,167
    Sastre holds on in the TT = Riis is a tactical genius.

    Evans overhauls Sastre in the TT = Riis is tactically inept.
    Le Blaireau (1)
  • Eurostar
    Eurostar Posts: 1,806
    What else could Riis have done? If Sastre had started today with a smaller deficit, Evans would have been marking him instead of Schleck. After all, Sastre's the team leader. But Riis managed to get Evans to make Schleck a higher priority. Bloody clever. He's now got a reasonable chance of winning the Tour with a rider who was not one of the two pre-race favourites.
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  • andyp
    who the fuck are you ?? give us your take on the race numb nuts....
  • Jashin
    Jashin Posts: 164
    To be fair, andyp at least sounds like he know's what he's talking about. Frank looked pretty cooked to me, and he and Sastre are about equal on TT's. Evan's is always impressive in these types of situations - looks like he's struggling but just keeps going at a good pace.
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    I thought Riis was spot on today. Sastre was the strongest CSC rider in with a shout (Andy was the strongest rider and if it wasn't for his jour sans....). Frank and Andy did a great job when they jumped away and followed wheels when others attacked. Everytime Cadel clawed his was back however if you watched the time advantage Sastre had it always went out more after those flurries.

    They could've done with more time but hey, it is what it is.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • Earthbound
    Earthbound Posts: 109
    Evans couldn't even chase his own tail if he was a puppy dog. He NEEDS someone else's tail (or wheel) to chase.

    It always bemuses me as to how Evans can do a good TT, after all there's no wheel to follow.

    No, we saw today what Evans is, a gutless half chancer. Someone who has been wrongly spoken of in recent years as a potential tour winner simply because he has been able to follow in the wheels of great men and bask in their refelcted glory. Evans is not a great cyclist.

    Evans was completely incapable of making any inroads on Sastre's lead on the Alpe today, once again relying on the efforts of others to pull hime along, jsut as he did on the Tourmalet.

    The only fair winner this year is Sastre or indeed any of the CSC team who have ALL put in monstorous performances. Shame about Van De Velde, he's been immense too.

    Evans has been limp.
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    Earthbound wrote:
    Evans has been limp.

    So you can ride yourself into 4'th on the TdF with every chance of winning and you're still limp?

    He's not that exciting but he's uber talented. He's done very well - Rubbish team, very powerful team against him but he's kept up there.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • Kléber
    Kléber Posts: 6,842
    Sometimes free speech can be a bad idea :roll:
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    Like Andyp says you start looking forward to the end of the Tour about now.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • greeny12
    greeny12 Posts: 759
    If Evans does scrape into yellow in the TT he can also send a big bouquet over to the Ag2r team bus - without those guys making the pace for a fair slug of Alpe d'Huez (for reasons that are beyond me - why didn't they box clever and let Evans make the pace of the chase all the way up instead of wearing themselves out early doors??) he'd be pretty much cooked by now....

    It's a funny old world when Carlos Sastre looks like a total swashbuckler by comparison, but Evans really is a hateful wheelsucker.
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  • Earthbound
    Earthbound Posts: 109
    iainf72 wrote:
    Earthbound wrote:
    Evans has been limp.

    So you can ride yourself into 4'th on the TdF with every chance of winning and you're still limp?

    The problem is HE didn't ride himself into 4th. Others rode and HE sat on their wheels.
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    Earthbound wrote:
    The problem is HE didn't ride himself into 4th. Others rode and HE sat on their wheels.

    Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhtttttt.

    If only it were that easy, eh?
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • Jez mon
    Jez mon Posts: 3,809
    If it was all as easy as Earthbound claims, the TdF would consist of 180 riders, all with the same time (barring TTs).

    Sometimes I wonder how many people on this forum actually ride bikes. Evans plays to his strengths, what do you expect him to do?

    Besides ALL riders have to rely on others at times.

    Next you'll moan about how cavendish only ever does 250m of work.
    You live and learn. At any rate, you live
  • drenkrom
    drenkrom Posts: 1,062
    The thing with a wheelsucker, and something the CSC boys seem to understand, is that you can give him a false pace and he'll be a lot more prone to fall for it. Send Sastre up the road and every time someone in the yellow jersey group jumps, send Andy after him. Once he catches up, he sets the pace for a while, being careful to stay nicely under the pace Sastre is holding up front. The pace in the yellow group will be all over the place, something that really doesn't suit Evans. So you en up tiring Evans while Sastre is building a lead up front.

    Still searching for the ineptitude...
  • Jeff Jones
    Jeff Jones Posts: 1,865
    From what I saw, Evans looked like he did about 20-25% of the work on Alpe d'Huez. It was more than any of the others did except Sastre and possibly Goubert. He could have perhaps done a little more in the middle section but from where he was sitting in the group, he didn't look to have that much in the tank.
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    Product manager, Sports
  • Actually, Riis set us all up, he played Frank as the top GC man for the past week and then launched his top TT rider off the front - bam! Carlos is in yellow with a decent time gap. Granted, it's probably not enough time to wear yellow into Paris, but now CSC has a chance.
  • Tim Farr
    Tim Farr Posts: 665
    From an interview with Riis after yesterday's stage I got the distinct impression that Riis felt let down! Not by the domestiques who performed admirably - but by his team leaders Sastre and Frank Schleck. They should have attacked on the Col de Bonette. Now it's easy to say that, whether it's me sat in front of a TV or Riis inthe team car, but a successful attack could have gained a bit of time on Evans. Perhaps they felt weak; perhaps they were too timid.
    T Farr
  • mooro
    mooro Posts: 483
    Earthbound wrote:
    iainf72 wrote:
    Earthbound wrote:
    Evans has been limp.

    So you can ride yourself into 4'th on the TdF with every chance of winning and you're still limp?

    The problem is HE didn't ride himself into 4th. Others rode and HE sat on their wheels.


    I am no real fan of Evens, but this is plain wrong... Cadel was on the front quite a bit on the Alpe, limiting his losses, as he was in the pyrennes...

    His one remaining team mate was gone before the first corner on the Alpe, what should he have done? time trialled it all the way up?
  • Squaggles
    Squaggles Posts: 875
    Evans is gutless ? You must have watched a different stage to me . He was obviously on the limit , no team mates , 1 CSC rider up the road and 2 CSC riders in his group . He was almost dropped quite near the bottom and came back . He was obviously weaker than Andy S and no stronger than Frank S . I really don't know what you expected him to do ? Attack at the bottom , blow up completely and lose 10 minutes ?
    That would show guts I suppose , and stupidity .
    The UCI are Clowns and Fools
  • greeny12 wrote:
    If Evans does scrape into yellow in the TT he can also send a big bouquet over to the Ag2r team bus - without those guys making the pace for a fair slug of Alpe d'Huez (for reasons that are beyond me - why didn't they box clever and let Evans make the pace of the chase all the way up instead of wearing themselves out early doors??) he'd be pretty much cooked by now....

    I think they were maybe making some moves to try and keep within striking distance of the team prize. For a team like AG2R this would be something special, and they are close, but not so close if they let the gap to Sastre get bigger. Just a guess.
  • Carlos Sastre Couldnt time trial to save his life.....i would even bet CSC will only have a rider in 3rd place as Denis Menchov will fin in the top 3.

    While I would not say that time trialling was Sastre's strong suit, there is some vaguely comparable data. In the last long TT in the Tour 2007, Sastre lost 2.33 on Cadel. You are right, I have no idea what that means, but it DOES NOT mean Sastre can't time trial. Sastre was faster than Valverde, Kohl, F. Schleck and Valjevec last year. So maybe they are not so good either.

    In any case, Sastre might just try harder this year. With the jersey and all.
  • Chopster
    Chopster Posts: 14
    The way I see it, having watched just about every stage of this years TDF, is that if Schleck or Sastre win then really it is the Team that has won it for them. If Evans wins it then it is Evans who has won it, through his own effort, wheel sucking or not, he still has to turn the pedals. How many of the other GC contenders have been pulling the peleton. He doesn't appear to have a team, in fact are there any Silence Lotto riders other than Evans and McEwen because if there is they certainly weren't working for McEwen in the sprints either?

    I don't think that Riis is inept, but given the effort of the likes of Voigt et al have put in I bet he's mighty pee'd off that after the Pyrenees and Alps Sastre has a relatively small lead.

    I don't think that Evans is a gutless chancer, given the size of the task and the lack of support I think he's got guts for making a go of it. It would have been easy to give up and blame the inadequate team, that would be the gutless route.