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"Dr." Chris Fenn - Bolloxwatch

fatbeefatbee Posts: 581
I don’t buy Cycling Plus very often these days. But every time I do, I remember why I don’t. If you see what I mean. And chief amongst those reasons, is the drivel regularly perpetrated by “Dr.” Chris Fenn.

Incidentally, I notice that the “Dr.” bit of her by-line is gradually disappearing from the magazine. Why is this? Is she currently at med school, un-learning an entire medical degree’s worth of “knowledge”? I do hope so, because she could *****y well do with it IMO. Or could it possibly be that she was never a real doctor in the first place?

I wonder.

Anyways, I recently picked up a friend’s copy of this year’s July edition, (so at least I didn’t waste my own money on it!) and on page 121 read the good doctor’s following advice on losing weight :

“If you ride three times a week and eat a slab of fruit cake each time, you will need to ride for 57 minutes to burn this off, plus an extra two hours to shift 1lb of excess fat each week.
Swap the fruit cake for malt loaf and you only need to ride for 28 minutes, and you start your fat burning regime much sooner.”

Why do they print this cobblers? Can the rest of the CP editorial team not lay claim to a single science GCSE between them, or do they just submit her copy without reading it? Presumably on the grounds that she’s a doctor, so it must be true.

I think we should be told.
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Posts

  • KléberKléber Posts: 6,842
    Fatbee, ok the language isn't right but assuming a malt loaf has half the calories of a "slab of fruit cake" then everything else being equal, someone may begin to shift some fat by riding for a hour if they eat the malt loaf as suggested.

    I know "fat burning regime" is pushing it. Yet if the article could use loads of technical jargon and include a range of caveats, this wouldn't read so well. So any advice has to be easy to read, if not simplified, to get through to the readership.
  • fatbeefatbee Posts: 581
    "assuming a malt loaf has half the calories of a "slab of fruit cake""

    Er yes. Only it hasn't has it? I think I'm right in saying that they're pretty much identical calories-wise. A bit over 300 cals per 100g from memory. Hence my confusion over what Dr. Chris thinks she's talking about. But I shall be in Tescos later so I will check.

    Where FC and ML do differ I think (again only from memory) is that the loaf will be far lower in fat, so that its carbs will go in far quicker (higher GI?) thus producing a higher insulin spike which will, if anything, cause the rider to lay down more fat rather than lose any. (Albeit to a small degree.)

    "someone may begin to shift some fat by riding for a hour if they eat the malt loaf as suggested."

    Yes, or then again they may well "begin to shift some fat" immediately if they don't eat either in the first place. Which is why I find her "advice" so misleading.
  • fatbee wrote:
    "assuming a malt loaf has half the calories of a "slab of fruit cake""

    Er yes. Only it hasn't has it? I think I'm right in saying that they're pretty much identical calories-wise. A bit over 300 cals per 100g from memory. Hence my confusion over what Dr. Chris thinks she's talking about. But I shall be in Tescos later so I will check.

    Where FC and ML do differ I think (again only from memory) is that the loaf will be far lower in fat, so that its carbs will go in far quicker (higher GI?) thus producing a higher insulin spike which will, if anything, cause the rider to lay down more fat rather than lose any. (Albeit to a small degree.)
    "someone may begin to shift some fat by riding for a hour if they eat the malt loaf as suggested."

    Yes, or then again they may well "begin to shift some fat" immediately if they don't eat either in the first place. Which is why I find her "advice" so misleading.

    I'm sure I have read (from Ric or Alex?) that this does not happen during exercise, which is why sports drinks use maltodextrin as opposed to wholewheat.
  • fatbeefatbee Posts: 581
    "I'm sure I have read (from Ric or Alex?) that this does not happen during exercise,"

    Which does not happen, the insulin rise or the putting on fat?

    "which is why sports drinks use maltodextrin as opposed to wholewheat."

    Er, wholewheat what? Sorry, no idea what you mean.
  • fatbee wrote:
    "I'm sure I have read (from Ric or Alex?) that this does not happen during exercise,"

    Which does not happen, the insulin rise or the putting on fat?

    "which is why sports drinks use maltodextrin as opposed to wholewheat."

    Er, wholewheat what? Sorry, no idea what you mean.

    the insulin spike is pretty much eliminated during exercise. even if it wasn't you'd want it to be so that energy consumed could be used at a quicker rate.

    excess energy consumed is stored as fat. it is hard to store (excess) carbs as fat

    ric
    Professional cycle coaching for cyclists of all levels
    www.cyclecoach.com
  • fatbeefatbee Posts: 581
    Hi ric

    You say "the insulin spike is pretty much eliminated during exercise"

    Eliminated how exactly? I think I know what you mean, but I'm not sure I fully understand.

    and "it is hard to store (excess) carbs as fat"

    Do you mean during exercise specifically or just in general?
  • fatbee wrote:
    Hi ric

    You say "the insulin spike is pretty much eliminated during exercise"

    Eliminated how exactly? I think I know what you mean, but I'm not sure I fully understand.

    and "it is hard to store (excess) carbs as fat"

    Do you mean during exercise specifically or just in general?

    the insulin spike that can occur after consuming carbs is reduced/eliminated when you are exercising due to changes in hormonal response.

    i mean in general.

    ric
    Professional cycle coaching for cyclists of all levels
    www.cyclecoach.com
  • SunWuKongSunWuKong Posts: 364
    Why is someone trying to lose weight eating fruit cake?
  • fatbeefatbee Posts: 581
    SunWuKong wrote:
    Why is someone trying to lose weight eating fruit cake?

    Precisely Sir !

    That's exactly what I'd like Dr. Fenn (or one of her fans) to tell us.
  • fatbeefatbee Posts: 581
    Thanks ric

    but I still don't see what you mean by "changes in hormonal response." Which hormones and to what are they responding please? Insulin is a major hormone.

    So you really are saying that "in general" + "it is hard to store (excess) carbs as fat" ?

    Because in general (i.e. while not exercising) I'd say it is hard NOT to store excess carbs as fat. Where d'you think the obesity crisis is coming from? It's not from eating protein or fat!
  • fatbeefatbee Posts: 581
    O.K. Back from Tescos.

    Malt Loaf :
    310 kcal per 100g and 2% fat.

    Cakes various involving fruit* :
    280 - 355 kcal and 10% - 20% fat
    Alright, maybe Dr. Fenn's fruitcake is a bit more calorie-laden than her malt loaf, but not enough to account for a 101% difference in the time needed "to burn this off".

    So I still say she's talking the sort of knobflob that should have no place in any publication that expects to be taken seiously. I expect Bella or TV Quick would have her.

    *Interestingly, not a single product for sale actually called"fruit cake".
  • idaviesmooreidaviesmoore Posts: 557
    :lol: Knobflob :?: :?:

    You really don't care for the good doctor, do you :?:
    'How can an opinion be bullsh1t?' High Fidelity
  • fatbeefatbee Posts: 581
    It's nothing personal. And she's the one laughing in the end - somebody's paying her to write the stuff after all. I blame the editor for printing it and me for buying it! (When I do.)

    The trouble is, I set considerable store by the bike and gear reviews in CP, but if the people conducting those are as confused as Dr. Chris, I probably shouldn't !

    Although my number one source of tech. advice is still the people on this board, so Gawd bless you all!
  • NJKNJK Posts: 194
    fatbee wrote:
    Thanks ric

    but I still don't see what you mean by "changes in hormonal response." Which hormones and to what are they responding please? Insulin is a major hormone.

    So you really are saying that "in general" + "it is hard to store (excess) carbs as fat" ?

    Because in general (i.e. while not exercising) I'd say it is hard NOT to store excess carbs as fat. Where d'you think the obesity crisis is coming from? It's not from eating protein or fat!

    The obesity crisis comes from people eating excess food which means that even eating a small amount e.g 300kcal extra per day more than the energy required to maintain body mass will lead to a substantial weight gain over a year. Generally i would say that the obese eat alot more than the 15% fat needed in the diet. Which at 9 cals per gram will mean weight gain will happen unless you are strict elsewhere in your diet.
  • fatbee wrote:
    "I'm sure I have read (from Ric or Alex?) that this does not happen during exercise,"

    Which does not happen, the insulin rise or the putting on fat?

    "which is why sports drinks use maltodextrin as opposed to wholewheat."

    Er, wholewheat what? Sorry, no idea what you mean.

    Sugar is High GI, wholewheat (I was being slightly tongue in cheek sorry) is much lower.
    When you are exercising, your body will burn glucose which if dumped quickly from your stomach as is the case with a sports drink or anything sugary: (jelly babies are quite good as well) is much more useful than a low GI long chain carb which will take longer to be absorbed into te blood stream and processed into glucose
  • fatbeefatbee Posts: 581
    I thought that’s probably what you meant Steve – just checking.

    No need to apologise though, I think the idea of a wholewheat sportsdrink is quite funny, as long as it’s high-fibre and pro-biotic too!

    However, if as you say, a regular sportsdrink’s carbs are “dumped quickly from your stomach” (and I agree with you that they are,) then surely this will result in higher blood-sugar levels and a bigger insulin spike, exactly as I suggested?

    So I’m still waiting to hear from ric s, how excersie reduces or eliminates the spike, and which hormones change and in response to what.
  • fatbeefatbee Posts: 581
    Neil, given how extremely highly qualified you are in this area (a degree AND a masters amongst several other things for those who haven't looked!) I'm very interested indeed in your knowledge and opinions on the subject.

    You say : "The obesity crisis comes from people eating excess food " but do you mean to suggest that that's all there is to it, beginning and end-of? Because if you do, I'd like to know if you have any evidence for the claim. By which I mean proper peer-reviewed scientific or medical studies, published in legitimate journals. I.e. the sort of "evidence" that you as a scientist would recognise and respect.

    I’m currently doing a lot of research in this area (for a TV doc which may or may not make it to the screen,) and I have been unable to find any such satisfactory evidence. There’s a lot to suggest that “over-eating” sometimes plays a part in it, but as someone once observed, that’s like attributing the health-effects of alcoholism to “over-drinking.” It’s not very helpful and it rather misses the point.

    So are you really saying that obesity always and of necessity involves “people eating excess food” ? Because if you are, I think that you're wrong, and that this misapprehension in people as expert as you has a lot to do with the obesity crisis.

    Ta in advance.
  • a_n_ta_n_t Posts: 2,011
    fatbee wrote:
    So are you really saying that obesity always and of necessity involves “people eating excess food” ? Because if you are, I think that you're wrong,

    So how would one become "obese" without eating excess food?


    just interested.
    Manchester wheelers

    PB's
    10m 20:21 2014
    25m 53:18 20:13
    50m 1:57:12 2013
    100m Yeah right.
  • NJKNJK Posts: 194
    fatbee wrote:
    Neil, given how extremely highly qualified you are in this area (a degree AND a masters amongst several other things for those who haven't looked!) I'm very interested indeed in your knowledge and opinions on the subject.

    You say : "The obesity crisis comes from people eating excess food " but do you mean to suggest that that's all there is to it, beginning and end-of? Because if you do, I'd like to know if you have any evidence for the claim. By which I mean proper peer-reviewed scientific or medical studies, published in legitimate journals. I.e. the sort of "evidence" that you as a scientist would recognise and respect.

    I’m currently doing a lot of research in this area (for a TV doc which may or may not make it to the screen,) and I have been unable to find any such satisfactory evidence. There’s a lot to suggest that “over-eating” sometimes plays a part in it, but as someone once observed, that’s like attributing the health-effects of alcoholism to “over-drinking.” It’s not very helpful and it rather misses the point.

    So are you really saying that obesity always and of necessity involves “people eating excess food” ? Because if you are, I think that you're wrong, and that this misapprehension in people as expert as you has a lot to do with the obesity crisis.

    Ta in advance.


    I am no expert in Nutrition but my opinion is simply eating more calories than you need will lead to weight gain over a given period of time in most people. Most obese people do not understand that they are underestimating how many calories they are eating and that hidden calories, high sugar content, salt and high fat content will lead to obesity in the long term.

    I'm not sure what you are getting at in the last bit. Why am i wrong to think that eating excess calories contributes to being obese?
  • fatbeefatbee Posts: 581
    Well, in a nutshell, by having too much insulin. Insulin is what puts on fat, and you can't get fat without it. Forget calories, over-eating, inactivity and all the other usual suspects.

    Want an example? Nigeria. Widespread and chronic obesity in people who by World Health Organisation standards count as "malnourished". Extremely obese adults, often performing agricultural and/or other heavy manual labour for a living, who get obese and stay that way on around 1500 calories per day.

    Another? Many years ago, there was a medical fashion for treating various "mental disorders" by injecting sufferers with large doses of insulin. Almost without exception, patients, without changing their diet or activity levels, gained significant amounts of body fat, very quickly. (I think Sylvia Plath mentioned it somewhere, but that’s just from memory.)

    Another another? A study in which volunteers fasted (they consumed nothing but water) but were injected with insulin. They gained body fat. On no food. Does that answer your question?

    Now granted in the second and third cases this probably wouldn’t count as “obesity” per se (as defined by BMI or whatever,) because in the second the treatment wasn’t continued for long enough (thanks goodness,) and in the third because the subjects’ bodies were actually catabolising their own lean tissue. So their weight remained about the same.

    But I submit to you ladies and gentlemen of the jury that this disproves the case that you cannot put on fat without “over-eating”.
  • fatbee wrote:
    Neil, given how extremely highly qualified you are in this area (a degree AND a masters amongst several other things for those who haven't looked!) I'm very interested indeed in your knowledge and opinions on the subject.

    You say : "The obesity crisis comes from people eating excess food " but do you mean to suggest that that's all there is to it, beginning and end-of? Because if you do, I'd like to know if you have any evidence for the claim. By which I mean proper peer-reviewed scientific or medical studies, published in legitimate journals. I.e. the sort of "evidence" that you as a scientist would recognise and respect.

    I’m currently doing a lot of research in this area (for a TV doc which may or may not make it to the screen,) and I have been unable to find any such satisfactory evidence. There’s a lot to suggest that “over-eating” sometimes plays a part in it, but as someone once observed, that’s like attributing the health-effects of alcoholism to “over-drinking.” It’s not very helpful and it rather misses the point.

    So are you really saying that obesity always and of necessity involves “people eating excess food” ? Because if you are, I think that you're wrong, and that this misapprehension in people as expert as you has a lot to do with the obesity crisis.

    Ta in advance.

    I'm surprised with your flippancy to Chris Fenn, given the nature of your job (you're suggesting that you are researching a TV doc). You don't come off as very professional. Actually, you're very flippant and i don't think you help yourself.

    I'm surprised by your inability to recognise what i wrote about insulin response being decreased during exercise. This is 1st year undergrad physiology and takes about 30-secs to find in a book such as McArdle Katch and Katch. This suggests to me that you haven't done your due dilligence.

    I don't believe that Neil means that *all* obese people are habitual overeaters. There are of course some obese people with metabolic disorders, and some of the overeating is a mental health issue. However, in general, those that are overfat or obese are generally overeaters (allied with under exercising).

    I believe that if you were coming here for advice to help with your programme you've approached the situation incorrectly. I (and others e.g. Neil, Alex) come on here to help cyclists with coaching and physiology advice in a general manner. I don't have time to produce a set of citations for all posts that i make, as i have other things to do. If for e.g. i want to write an article for a magazine, newspaper, or a scientific journal then i would provide those citations. when i want to discuss a point then in depth in a forum i may produce citations or just produce the evidence (as i did above) depending on my time availability.

    ric
    Professional cycle coaching for cyclists of all levels
    www.cyclecoach.com
  • fatbeefatbee Posts: 581
    Hi Neil

    the above was intended to answer a_n_t’s question obviously.

    “Why am i wrong to think that eating excess calories contributes to being obese?”

    I’m not saying that you’re wrong to think that it contributes. On the contrary, I think you’d be right if you said that it can, or indeed very often does, contribute. However if you were to say that it is the only contributing factor, or that people cannot become obese without “eating excess calories” then I would say that yes, you are wrong.

    “my opinion is simply eating more calories than you need will lead to weight gain over a given period of time in most people”

    Again I would not disagree that this is often, possibly usually, the case. But only if those calories are substantially in the form of foods which contribute to fat accumulation. And that means carbs not fat. It is insulin that allows or causes excess calories to be laid down as fat, and insulin comes overwhelmingly from eating carbs.

    Another problem is defining what counts as “more calories than you need” And this tends to be a somewhat circular, self-justifying definition. Most people, including you I assume, have already decided that “over-eating” causes obesity and therefore that every obese person must, by definition have “over-eaten.” A causes B and the existence of B proves A.

    And that fundamentally I believe is why all the current orthodoxy and expertise is failing so miserably to tackle the obesity problem, with quasi-scientific tosh from the likes of “Dr.” Fenn being less than helpful.
  • fatbee wrote:
    Hi Neil

    the above was intended to answer a_n_t’s question obviously.

    “Why am i wrong to think that eating excess calories contributes to being obese?”

    I’m not saying that you’re wrong to think that it contributes. On the contrary, I think you’d be right if you said that it can, or indeed very often does, contribute. However if you were to say that it is the only contributing factor, or that people cannot become obese without “eating excess calories” then I would say that yes, you are wrong.

    “my opinion is simply eating more calories than you need will lead to weight gain over a given period of time in most people”

    Again I would not disagree that this is often, possibly usually, the case. But only if those calories are substantially in the form of foods which contribute to fat accumulation. And that means carbs not fat. It is insulin that allows or causes excess calories to be laid down as fat, and insulin comes overwhelmingly from eating carbs.

    Another problem is defining what counts as “more calories than you need” And this tends to be a somewhat circular, self-justifying definition. Most people, including you I assume, have already decided that “over-eating” causes obesity and therefore that every obese person must, by definition have “over-eaten.” A causes B and the existence of B proves A.

    And that fundamentally I believe is why all the current orthodoxy and expertise is failing so miserably to tackle the obesity problem, with quasi-scientific tosh from the likes of “Dr.” Fenn being less than helpful.

    so, out of curiousity, what qualifications do you have in physiology, biology or medicine, etc?

    ric
    Professional cycle coaching for cyclists of all levels
    www.cyclecoach.com
  • NJKNJK Posts: 194
    fatbee wrote:
    Hi Neil

    the above was intended to answer a_n_t’s question obviously.

    “Why am i wrong to think that eating excess calories contributes to being obese?”

    I’m not saying that you’re wrong to think that it contributes. On the contrary, I think you’d be right if you said that it can, or indeed very often does, contribute. However if you were to say that it is the only contributing factor, or that people cannot become obese without “eating excess calories” then I would say that yes, you are wrong.

    “my opinion is simply eating more calories than you need will lead to weight gain over a given period of time in most people”

    Again I would not disagree that this is often, possibly usually, the case. But only if those calories are substantially in the form of foods which contribute to fat accumulation. And that means carbs not fat. It is insulin that allows or causes excess calories to be laid down as fat, and insulin comes overwhelmingly from eating carbs.

    Another problem is defining what counts as “more calories than you need” And this tends to be a somewhat circular, self-justifying definition. Most people, including you I assume, have already decided that “over-eating” causes obesity and therefore that every obese person must, by definition have “over-eaten.” A causes B and the existence of B proves A.

    And that fundamentally I believe is why all the current orthodoxy and expertise is failing so miserably to tackle the obesity problem, with quasi-scientific tosh from the likes of “Dr.” Fenn being less than helpful.

    The obesity problem is simply down to less activity combined with little knowledge on food types and how many calories they contain, simple view i know but MOST obese people and i stress MOST obese people will become healthier with a little bit of education in this area. It doesn't need to be complicated.
  • fatbeefatbee Posts: 581
    "The obesity problem is simply down to less activity combined with little knowledge on food types and how many calories they contain"

    But do you have any evidence for this? I've researched the correlation between activity levels and obesity, and I can't see much of a link. But if you can I'd be very grateful to be shown it. And in any case, given the scale of the problem and the widespread failure to solve it, it seems unlikely that it's "simply" down to anything.
  • fatbeefatbee Posts: 581
    Hi ric

    I'm sorry if you object to my flippancy, I thought it might amuse some people, obviously I was wrong.

    I could've adopted a more serious tone, but that wouldn't change my basic contention that a lot of what she wrote in that article is either misleading or just plain wrong.

    Obesity is currently a colossal problem that quite literally causes pain, misery and death, and costs all of us money. So I firmly believe that anybody that purports to be an expert and receives money for offering relevant medical advice should be open to fair scrutiny.

    “I'm surprised by your inability to recognise what i wrote “

    No inability on my part surely? I recognised what you wrote, read what you wrote, understood what you wrote, and asked you a supplementary question about it. A question I note that you’ve declined to answer.

    “you're suggesting that you are researching a TV doc”

    Not so much “suggesting” as “telling you”.

    “You don't come off as very professional”

    That could well be because I’m not. A professional that is. Rank amateur me. So it should be relatively easy for the “professionals” to answer my questions and refute my arguments, except . . .

    “This is 1st year undergrad physiology”

    OK. Way above my level then. Which is probably why I felt the need to ask somebody for whom it isn’t.

    “takes about 30-secs to find in a book such as McArdle Katch and Katch”

    Given the above, you won’t I imagine be entirely surprised to hear that I don’t own a copy. So how please, would a first year Physiology undergrad answer my question?

    “This suggests to me that you haven't done your due dilligence.”

    Is that fair comment? Somebody posted some information that I hadn’t been previously aware of, and I asked for more details. How could I diligently have investigated something that I didn’t know existed? Now that I do, I’ve diligently asked the question, but nobody has, as yet, diligently (or otherwise) answered it. I’m not for a moment doubting it, let alone disputing. I just asked “which hormones?” and “how?”

    “in general, those that are overfat or obese are generally overeaters (allied with under exercising). “

    How do you know this? Have you met them all? The W.H.O. estimates that there are about a billion of them worldwide, so I’ll assume not. So as I asked Neil, where’s the evidence?

    “I don't have time”

    Understood, and I am grateful to you for the time you’ve devoted to it thus far.

    “so, out of curiousity, what qualifications do you have in physiology, biology or medicine, etc?”

    In that order : None, none, none and in the case of “etc” er, none (probably.) Does that matter?
  • SunWuKongSunWuKong Posts: 364
    Fatbee, you ask for citations yet give none yourself. You mention a couple fo studies but without citations they are merely anecdotes.

    Leeds Met Uni have had great success over the last few years in helping lots of obese people by educating them on diet and exercise.

    IMO the causes of obesity are complex. With things like people driving more and walking/cycling less, working long hours and therefore eating more processed food and so on. You seem to have a fixation on insulin beign the main cause, if it was purely down to this and not diet and activity why are more people fatter now than previoulsy? Are we all producing more insulin than previous generations?
  • ut_och_cyklaut_och_cykla Posts: 1,594
    I'm with NJK on this one. There are lots of social factors making it easier for people to get overweight - the private motor vehicle and food available 24/7 being two major culprits, but the physiology is, according to scientific reasoning (not magic stones or iris examination, too much energy in and not enough out.

    Its very easy to eat just a bit too much everyday and do a bit less gardening, walking etc so the balance can be 300- 500 kcal (one mars bar!) excess every day. That's more than a kilo a month, 12kgs a bit less than 2 stone a year - quite rapid weight gain - many gain more slowly but start early as kids , not mums at home or managers at a desk (which used to be the turn points for many people).

    Insulin spikes and stuff are fine tuning if you like - eat healthily and exercise appropriately and you will not go up in weight. Ready made food tends to have unecessary high levels of fat and sugar in them - easy to access adn easy to eat, but not satisfying - so you top up with a choccy bar or another round of horrid fat drenched sarnies with so-called tuna and egg filling - sounds healthy but its much more calorie rich than you'd imagine.
  • fatbee wrote:
    "I'm sure I have read (from Ric or Alex?) that this does not happen during exercise,"

    Which does not happen, the insulin rise or the putting on fat?

    "which is why sports drinks use maltodextrin as opposed to wholewheat."

    Er, wholewheat what? Sorry, no idea what you mean.

    Sugar is High GI, wholewheat (I was being slightly tongue in cheek sorry) is much lower.
    When you are exercising, your body will burn glucose which if dumped quickly from your stomach as is the case with a sports drink or anything sugary: (jelly babies are quite good as well) is much more useful than a low GI long chain carb which will take longer to be absorbed into te blood stream and processed into glucose


    My point (and one that Ric has made twice already..) is that you don't get an insulin spike when exercising, and think about it why would you? Your body is in a steady state high fuel-burn mode, the last thning it should do is to try to convert a heap of "free" energy into fat and then back into glucose again? Once you have stopped exercising and you approach your BMR then you don't need to flood your blood with sugars, hence for sedantary types Low GL and low carb diets are better at weight control for the very reasons you describe. If you know what you energy consumption rate is (usually in Kcals/hour) then you can match your food intake similarly. From experience, a wholemeal ham roll aint much use as a food source at 600+Kcals/hour energy consumption. (assuming I could chew it and avoid inhaling it). Conversely, SIS GO is not appropriate whilst sat at my desk typing this at around 80-100Kcals/hour.
  • fatbeefatbee Posts: 581
    Good points all SWK.

    1) Which bits do you want citations or links to? Let me know and I’ll try to post them. May take some time though. But I will try.

    2) Same to you (!). Have LMU published their results do you know? I’d be grateful and interested to see them. Although the trouble with “great success” in the context of dietary intervention is often that the practitioner or institute tend only to analyse their success while the subject is under their control. Many diets work in the short term and quite a few in the medium. The real test is whether it works for life.

    3) Don’t disagree with any of your last para. very much. But I am “fixated” as you put it with insulin, because that is, in a sense, what it is all down to. As I said, no insulin, no fat gain. And I can provide much more evidence of this if you want. The fact that diet, activity, lifestyle (work, stress, sleep etc) all impinge upon insulin production is why I don’t say that any of these factors are irrelevant - they’re not.

    But I believe that current mainstream thinking has extrapolated from their being symptoms, which they obviously are, to claiming them as causes, which IMO, they’re not. And the fact that people can gain fat whilst not eating or exercising at all, and equally (indifferent circumstances,) lose weight no matter how many “excess calories” they consume, proves this.

    “why are more people fatter now than previously?”

    Well for all of the above reasons and more, but all through the mechanism of insulin.

    “Are we all producing more insulin than previous generations?”

    Yes. But not through some implausible genetic or evolutionary change, but because what we’re currently told is a “healthy” diet, tends to be more insulinogenic. “Eat a low fat diet” we’ve been told (speeds up digestion, puts up insulin.) “Cut back on saturated fat” (ditto) “Eat more carbs” (puts up insulin.)

    We’re told to exercise more and that’s a good thing, but most of the people telling us to, also tell us, as does Dr. Chris Fenn, that in order to be able to exercise you have to eat carbs, before, during and after exercise. If you asked an evil scientist to concoct a plan for rendering the vast majority of any fat-burning exercise a person does, either pointless or actually counterproductive, they couldn’t come up with a more effective knobbling regime than this : carbo-load before exercise, sip a “sportsdrink” during, and consume yet more carbs after (like a “recovery drink”) in the “glycogen replenishment window”.

    Absolutely barking (assuming you’re trying to lose weight.)

    And yet that’s exactly what we’re told to do. And people wonder why we’re getting fatter!
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