Dura-Ace or Record?

Ste_S

Ste_S wrote:

Buy the one who's hoods fit your hands best. Proper adjustment and replacing cables when stretched has far more of an impact on smooth shifting than any particualr groupset does.

I want to change my response. If you're buying the newer versions of the groupsets, buy Record. 7900 Dura Ace is really ugly.

jpembroke

pliptrot wrote:

The Shimano freehub is far superior to that of Campag

Hmmmm, not in my experience (1 campag bike and 2 Shimano bikes).

and Shimano hubs are just too damn quiet.

il_principe

Given the amount of us that run 3rd party wheels the hubs argument is perchance a tad irrelevant.

I have Ultegra and Chorus. Prefer Chorus but not by much. Would always choose Campagnolo now though. Super Record looks lovely.

pliptrot

Fulcrum wheels, being Campagnolo made (but branded differently so they can use such frippery as fancy colours without sullying the serious and professional image of Campag) have -I'm sure- the same questionable freehub design as I alluded to in my previous post. Pity, as I like the look of them (and, indeed the whole look of Jashburnham's Prince).

New Dura Ace looks shockingly bad. What were they thinking?

il_principe

pliptrot wrote:

Fulcrum wheels, being Campagnolo made (but branded differently so they can use such frippery as fancy colours without sullying the serious and professional image of Campag) have -I'm sure- the same questionable freehub design as I alluded to in my previous post. Pity, as I like the look of them (and, indeed the whole look of Jashburnham's Prince).

New Dura Ace looks shockingly bad. What were they thinking?

Yep they are Campag hubs as far as I'm aware. I've owned a pair of Racing 1's for maybe 2.5 years now and they have behaved impeccably. No problems whatsoever. Likewise my 0's which must be over a year old by now have been perfect.

Interestingly (or not) prior to this years Etape, my riding buddies and I were putting our bikes together in our Gite, when Tom decided to give all our wheels a spin and see which ones spun longest. His brother and he both run Mavic Ksyrium SL's, the Fulcrum's span and span and span, the Mavics stopped rolling rather quickly. So quickly in comparison that they both asked a guy in the Mavic tent to have a peek when we went to register. He was happy with both their wheels! Fulcrum hubs are pretty damn good IMHO...

k-dog

I personnally prefer the Shimano hoods over Campag - more comfortable over long rides. However with Campag you can mount a bar bag - can't with Shimano.

The new DA has internally routed cables - and that will probably trickle down over the next few years.

il_principe

New Super Record hoods look mighty comfy...

wildmoustache

jashburnham wrote:

pliptrot wrote:

Fulcrum wheels, being Campagnolo made (but branded differently so they can use such frippery as fancy colours without sullying the serious and professional image of Campag) have -I'm sure- the same questionable freehub design as I alluded to in my previous post. Pity, as I like the look of them (and, indeed the whole look of Jashburnham's Prince).

New Dura Ace looks shockingly bad. What were they thinking?

Yep they are Campag hubs as far as I'm aware. I've owned a pair of Racing 1's for maybe 2.5 years now and they have behaved impeccably. No problems whatsoever. Likewise my 0's which must be over a year old by now have been perfect.

Interestingly (or not) prior to this years Etape, my riding buddies and I were putting our bikes together in our Gite, when Tom decided to give all our wheels a spin and see which ones spun longest. His brother and he both run Mavic Ksyrium SL's, the Fulcrum's span and span and span, the Mavics stopped rolling rather quickly. So quickly in comparison that they both asked a guy in the Mavic tent to have a peek when we went to register. He was happy with both their wheels! Fulcrum hubs are pretty damn good IMHO...

Yes ... the performance of the bearings under load is different however, but my own experience backs up the point you're making. I had two pairs of Ksyriums and have also used Eurus, Neutron, Bora and Shamals, and there is no doubt that the campag wheels spin more freely under load also.

jpembroke

I can spin my Proton wheels, go to the pub and they'll still be running when I get back.

aracer

pliptrot wrote:

The Shimano freehub is far superior to that of Campag - the mighty C put the drive side bearings way inboard - even further than they were on screw-on hubs (the original freehub design being a solution to premature wear on drive-side bearings and regular axle breakages with scew-on hubs), which results in an inferior design prone to (very) premature wear. This alone makes Shimano preferred.

In theory you're right, and whilst I'm with you on the Shimano freehub being a far superior design (it's a masterpiece in engineering), in practice Campag freehubs appear to work and last just as well. Part of the reason for this is that they found a different way around the problem of axle flex resulting in broken axles and worn bearings - simply make the axle stiffer by making it bigger. Worth bearing in mind that every aftermarket hub (including those that are raved about such as DT and CK) also use the same bearing locations as Campag.

Oh, and the 7800 DA hub also uses the same bearing locations as Campag...

agnello

record

jpembroke

aracer wrote:

Oh, and the 7800 DA hub also uses the same bearing locations as Campag...

Does this mean that the DA hubs will now sound like a proper hub? Hmm, that is good news.

Hubs are not like Victorian children you know, they should be seen and heard.

dennisn

So, NWLondoner, I hope all this has cleared up the confusion surrounding Campy and
Shimano and which one is BETTER. :roll: :roll: :roll:

Dennis Noward

neeb

I've just gone to quite a bit of trouble and expense to replace the Shimano Tiagra shifters on my commuting bike (which has a mixed Shimano drive train) with Veloce. Had to order a special widget thingie from the U.S. to correct the cable pull difference. I just can't stand the feel of Shimano shifters & hoods, it's a personal thing I guess.

jpembroke

and then you just won't be able to stand the mix and match campag/shimano set up. It'll eat away at you until you have a complete Veloce groupset.

and then the frame won't look right

It's no good, you can't fight it.


:twisted:

neeb

No, it'll be OK because I've just bought a lovely steel frame to build up from scratch with Centaur. That'll keep the wallet occupied and my mind off the old hack for a while!

and then you just won't be able to stand the mix and match campag/shimano set up.

I wonder if it should be called campano or shimpag...

Raphapimp

Just gone from Dura Ace to Campo - Ultra Tourque Chours CT crank and the rest Centure - and the results for me are astonishing. Much better suited to me and my style of riding. Shifters are better, changes are smoother and hell it looks soooo much better without all those crappy cables everywhere.

Campo brakes suck tho, shimano are much better, ditch the Camp ones and put some sweet mavics on it.

Not tried SRAM, they look cool tho, but to be honest i can't think anything would beat what i have now.

dennisn

Raphapimp wrote:

Just gone from Dura Ace to Campo - Ultra Tourque Chours CT crank and the rest Centure - and the results for me are astonishing. Much better suited to me and my style of riding. Shifters are better, changes are smoother and hell it looks soooo much better without all those crappy cables everywhere.

Campo brakes suck tho, shimano are much better, ditch the Camp ones and put some sweet mavics on it.

Not tried SRAM, they look cool tho, but to be honest i can't think anything would beat what i have now.

".... astonishing. Much better suited to me and my style of riding."
Please explain "astonishing". What exactly is your "style of riding" that it would be
so enhanced simply by changing a crank and shifters? :roll: :roll: :roll:

Dennis Noward

NWLondoner

dennisn wrote:

So, NWLondoner, I hope all this has cleared up the confusion surrounding Campy and
Shimano and which one is BETTER. :roll: :roll: :roll:

Dennis Noward

It has i'll get SRAM :twisted: :twisted:

Ste_S

Raphapimp wrote:

Just gone from Dura Ace to Campo - Ultra Tourque Chours CT crank and the rest Centure - and the results for me are astonishing. Much better suited to me and my style of riding. Shifters are better, changes are smoother and hell it looks soooo much better without all those crappy cables everywhere.

Campo brakes suck tho, shimano are much better, ditch the Camp ones and put some sweet mavics on it.

Not tried SRAM, they look cool tho, but to be honest i can't think anything would beat what i have now.

Are you sure you've got Campag ? If so, replace smoother with agricultural

fast as fupp

Are you sure you've got Campag ? If so, replace smoother with agricultural [/quote]

hes just got has adjective mixed up!

replace smoother with more positve (as opposed to vague for shimaNO)

cavemud

Levers - Use Campag. Last longer. More repairable. No shifter cable flapping around the front. (I like the thumb down shift personally). Trim adjustment for front shifter.

Derailleur - Shimano - float of top jockey wheel and cheaper to replace as derailleurs are easily damaged.

Cassettes - Shimano - Cheaper, more easility available, also leading to more easily available hubs etc.

I use a JTek shiftmate to convert the pull ratio. Works fine for me.

Just succumbed to an Ultegra SL Compact Chainset, so that now leaves me with a complete mix, and no real sense of loyalty!!

Rather that shout and scream for one brand or the other, why not allow yourself to select each individual component on its merits.

Interestingly, how do 'pro's' in the tour go on for compatibility when the boys in yellow hand them a wheel?

Is it a simple case of 'Sorry mate. we only have shimano so your gonna have to wait for your team car or we could order one in for you?' or is there an accepted norm for hub and cassette type?

k-dog

Is it a simple case of 'Sorry mate. we only have shimano so your gonna have to wait for your team car or we could order one in for you?' or is there an accepted norm for hub and cassette type?

They carry them both - it's not too hard to have 2 or 3 wheels of each in the car. I think the spare bikes are Campagnolo equipped though (although last year I think they had Sram Force). Could be wrong about the Campag though - they used to be.

Interesting article here: - http://velonews.com/article/12682

“For over here (France) we basically have these three [in the back hatch],” he said. “One Campy, one Shimano and one front. Over here, that’s plenty. Every team has multiple cars, so everyone here is already really well supported. Back in the U.S. it’s a different story. When we load up, I usually have 10 rear wheels, 10 front wheels and sometimes we go through them all.

Service Course does see action, though, especially in the mountains or on flat stages when breaks gain lots of time.

“We help when there are early breaks and the team cars haven’t made it yet,” he said. “Or on the stages when we hit the mountains because things get really spread out. Even though every team each has two cars, they could have guys all over the place. We’ve got three different-sized bikes up there, so we can use those when needed, but again for the most part we’re there just to get guys going again until their team car can come take care of them.

nmcgann

Cavemud wrote:

Levers - Use Campag. Last longer. More repairable. No shifter cable flapping around the front. (I like the thumb down shift personally). Trim adjustment for front shifter.

Derailleur - Shimano - float of top jockey wheel and cheaper to replace as derailleurs are easily damaged.

Cassettes - Shimano - Cheaper, more easility available, also leading to more easily available hubs etc.

I use a JTek shiftmate to convert the pull ratio. Works fine for me.

Just succumbed to an Ultegra SL Compact Chainset, so that now leaves me with a complete mix, and no real sense of loyalty!!

Rather that shout and scream for one brand or the other, why not allow yourself to select each individual component on its merits.

Interestingly, how do 'pro's' in the tour go on for compatibility when the boys in yellow hand them a wheel?

Is it a simple case of 'Sorry mate. we only have shimano so your gonna have to wait for your team car or we could order one in for you?' or is there an accepted norm for hub and cassette type?

That's what I do on my winter training bike. Campag Ergos, a campag triple chainset and front mech - all the rest is Shimano. Keeps all my wheels compatible between bikes.

Neil

Meds1962

I've had both and would agree with previous posts that hand comfort on the hoods is a major choice making factor regardless of anything else because they all work perfectly well no matter how much some people slag off what they don't like. There's no enjoyment to be had from a super smooth gear change if the hoods are killing your hands after a few miles.

Personally I didn't get on with Mirage hoods and was lucky I 'd only bought the bike cheaply for the winter so it didn't break my heart to get rid of it. I find my 105 STI's very comfortable as they have a softer more rubbery feel than the hard plastic of the Mirage. It never occurred to me that hand size might have been an issue as well. Plenty of people will say the opposite and I wouldn't argue with any of them because we're all different.

The only other criticism of Campag I'd have is the horrible din the freewheel made but some previous posts prefer the noise to the silence of a shimano hub. Each to his own!!

mjhale

This is like the canon v nikon debates on camera websites.

They will both be excellent so it basically comes down to what you prefer and suits you best.

Mike

satanas

Totally agree with the above post; either will do the job. Honestly, some of the other posters really are w@nkers! (Strangely, almost of them - the w@nkers that is - prefer Campag...)

dennisn

All of you need to give it up. The OP said he was going with Sram. Obviously it's the best
choice because both Campy and Shimano appear to be nothing but worthless trash.
:roll: :roll:

Dennis Noward

Soreknees

It's a pity the last three posters didn't post first. Would have saved four pages of inane drivel and pointless personal opinion. Still, it's a free country...