Dura-Ace or Record?

NWLondoner

I am probably going to start a war with this question.

Both of these group sets are the highest quality available in the Shimano and Campagnolo brands.

Which group sets is better?

Are Campagnolo really better than Shimano?

redddraggon

Record is a level above Dura Ace, Chorus is roughly equal to DA

Personally I take campag over the shimano, it's easier to shift with Campag

fto-si

NWLondoner wrote:

Are Campagnolo really better than Shimano?

The majority of the teams in this years TDF obviously don't think so

bill57

Everybody's just going to tell you their own preference, you know that. Neither will make you a better, fitter or faster rider - why not flip a coin?

Holty74

SRAM beat them both

Jez mon

If you have to ask, go for Dura-Ace. Unless you specifically want campagnolo, buy Shimano and spend the bucks saved on some nice wheels.

I have campag on my bike because it looks better and I prefer the way it changes.

SRAM is worth considering

redddraggon

fto-si wrote:

NWLondoner wrote:

Are Campagnolo really better than Shimano?

The majority of the teams in this years TDF obviously don't think so

Only one team "chooses" Shimano and that's CSC, Shimano just happen to have a bigger bank balance to sponsor more teams.

dbb

the answer could change depending on what you mean by better!

lighter?
spare parts available?
sold in more shops?
looks?
price?

you get my point.

otherwise , you will just end up with a passionate conversation around personal preferences without any real advice to help you with your decision.

dbb

the answer could change depending on what you mean by better!

lighter?
spare parts available?
sold in more shops?
looks?
shifting?
braking?
servicing?
price?

you get my point.

otherwise , you will just end up with a passionate conversation around personal preferences without any real advice to help you with your decision.

Ste_S

Buy the one who's hoods fit your hands best. Proper adjustment and replacing cables when stretched has far more of an impact on smooth shifting than any particualr groupset does.

wildmoustache

Ste_S wrote:

Buy the one who's hoods fit your hands best. Proper adjustment and replacing cables when stretched has far more of an impact on smooth shifting than any particualr groupset does.

good advice. bearing in mind also wheel compatibility.

bear in mind also they are both being updated next year so either wait or check for future compatibility.

if it was me, i'd wait to check prices on the 09 groupsets.

i wouldn't buy SRAM though ... just don't like the gimmicky decals.

Pokerface

Holty74 wrote:

SRAM beat them both

I have ridden them all - and Sram Red is by far the best. Great shifting, lightest groupset available, nice looks (IMO) and used by several pro teams.

If cost is no issue - look into Sram - I don't know anyone that has tried it and didn't like it (although I'm sure someone will post that they hate it now!)

Jez mon

I know a number of poeple who haven't liked SRAM and the CSC Team (apart from Riis) didn't like it enough to change from Shimano. The main problem for many has been some durability problems, which by the sounds of it have been solved. At the start of the year many RED sponsored teams were using a Force RD instead of a RED one.

TBH, I think the groupset is an odd area to save weight, obviously in some areas you can afford to save weight but sometimes it seems to be at the price of durability, a few grams won't cost you a race a broken chain/RD/FD/brake etc will.

portuguese mike

fto-si wrote:

NWLondoner wrote:

Are Campagnolo really better than Shimano?

The majority of the teams in this years TDF obviously don't think so

there's a saying: 'Campag wears in, Shimano wears out'. if you're a pro and your bike is meticulously maintained and parts get replaced as soon as they even look like they're wearing, then Shimano is an excellent choice. For the rest of us i believe campag to be a better option (especially judging by the number of poorly maintained shimano equiped bikes i come across making an awful racket). i have two bike i use for commuting and one has campag, the other shimano. i hardly ever need to adjust the gears on the campag bike but the other constantly needs tweaking. Also it's usually easier to repair campag components.

the other important thing for me as someone has already said was the fit of the ergo levers - campag suits my small hands better.

graham_g

It seems to me that whilst Campag stuff is very good and repairable and wears well, yadda, yadda, yadda...... you just won't get the spares a few years down the line. You can still buy shimano 6/7 speed road cassettes without having to go to track down some weird backstreet shop with a warehouse of NOS parts.

cougie

I've got a DA gruppo on one of my bikes thats a good 18 years old and still works fine.

I dont think theres much to choose between the two sets in all honesty, so go for the prettiest.

wildmoustache

Pokerface wrote:

Holty74 wrote:

SRAM beat them both

I have ridden them all - and Sram Red is by far the best. Great shifting, lightest groupset available, nice looks (IMO) and used by several pro teams.

If cost is no issue - look into Sram - I don't know anyone that has tried it and didn't like it (although I'm sure someone will post that they hate it now!)

All of them are used by several pro teams. All of them shift great IMO. Red is the lightest ... for about the next three months until super record comes out (but either way, so what when it's 10, 20 or 30g difference?). Looks-wise I'd disagree with you on Red, but it's subjective of course. Means there's too much going on visually for my taste.

I personally prefer either Shimano or Campag to SRAM. I just prefer the shifting action in either, though the SRAM hoods are very nice.

Just shows that you'll get different answers from different people and it comes down to opinion.

Beardy10

I have Shimano purely because the hoods are more comfortable for me.

NWLondoner

portuguese mike wrote:

fto-si wrote:

NWLondoner wrote:

Are Campagnolo really better than Shimano?

.

the other important thing for me as someone has already said was the fit of the ergo levers - campag suits my small hands better.

so campag levers are better for smaller hands? that may suit me then

PeteinSQ

Have you guys seen Super Record? There is a preview of it on roadcyclinguk and it looks amazing! They do raise the spectre of reliability (the chain is very narrow) but ignoring everything I think its looks are by far and away the best.

Personally I would get Dura-Ace but that's because its cheaper, and I already have Shimano tools.

giant_man

Before I tested a Cervelo recently with DA, I would have said Record straight away, having ridden with Campag for the last five years.

But you know, I did love the hoods on Dura Ace I must admit. They felt like joysticks on a computer, and your hands weren't going anywhere. Going back to Record Ergos, and it felt so 'open' if that makes sense.

So I don't know, I would probably choose Record with DA levers if that's possible.

Can anyone tell me if Shimano are bringing out a manual version of DA for 09' or it is only electronic?

ellieb

I happen to know that Shimano make their groupsets in an extremely cruel way: For instance to make the brake levers they take baby panda cubs, beat them over the head with large metal mallets and use the bones of the forelegs in the construction of the lever pivots.

Whereas campagnolo don't do that at all. No way

That's why I'd always choose campagnolo.

No I'm not biased in any way.

dennisn

cougie wrote:

I've got a DA gruppo on one of my bikes thats a good 18 years old and still works fine.

I dont think theres much to choose between the two sets in all honesty, so go for the prettiest.

I'm throwing my lot in with cougie, "pretty is good".

Dennis Noward

broachboy

I have always had Campag - no special reason, just grew up and stuck with it

I would dearly love to try the compnents from the dark side though :twisted: :shock: :?

are they sliky smooth :?:

I just don't like them exposed gear cables I suppose

Jez mon

Super Record from what I have seen is UGLY in my humble opinion (and I'm a campag fan!!)

At my LBS, the mechanic LOVES campag, he's got a Campag Tatoo (very swish!!), he acknowledged that both were good but he preferred Campag, because he could rebuild shifters, because he preferred the looks and for a number of other reasons.

Giant mancp, Shimano are releasing a brand new mechanical version of DA next year, as well as their electronic gruppo.

SJLcp

Can't stop myself replying on this one - having tried both brands over many years and currently have both Chorus and D/A bikes I have some specific comments

I personnally prefer the Shimano hoods over Campag - more comfortable over long rides. However with Campag you can mount a bar bag - can't with Shimano.

I don't like the plastic drop down lever on the left hand D/A hood for the front mech - its plasticky and notchy and basically crap.

D/A brakes feel more grabby than Chorus but this is probably subjective

Shimano D/A provide a triple whereas Campag focus on the compact (yes I know they do do a triple but its not with their fancy axle)

Quality of manufacture of Campag IS better than Shmano - ten years own the line the CAmpag will be looking better - cost for cost I would rate Chorus above D/A

Regards SRAM - I tried those new levers - whats that all about?

jpembroke

I have small hands and find Campag hoods more comfortable than Shimano; but then again I find the reach better on Shimano than Campag.

As for longevity, I have a 10 year old set of 8 speed Ultegra (then Shimano 600) STis that are still going strong on my 'cross bike.

pliptrot

For every opinion, there's an opposite and heartfelt counter opinion.

The Shimano freehub is far superior to that of Campag - the mighty C put the drive side bearings way inboard - even further than they were on screw-on hubs (the original freehub design being a solution to premature wear on drive-side bearings and regular axle breakages with scew-on hubs), which results in an inferior design prone to (very) premature wear. This alone makes Shimano preferred.

Judging by the comments on this thread it seems appearance has a lot to do with what your choice of kit may be, so I guess poorly designed internals don't count for much. After all, it's only the rear hub, so not really important.

Nuggs

NWLondoner wrote:

portuguese mike wrote:

fto-si wrote:

NWLondoner wrote:

Are Campagnolo really better than Shimano?

.

the other important thing for me as someone has already said was the fit of the ergo levers - campag suits my small hands better.

so campag levers are better for smaller hands? that may suit me then

Girls have small hands.

Ergo, Campag is for girls...

heavymental

Try them all out if you can. This is tricky because most bike shops only stock bikes with Shimano on. For example, when I was building my bike, I went for a wander around the 3 bike shops of Bath and found no ergos to have a go on. I bought Centaur off the back of the small hands thing, the hidden cables and the kudos :oops: . I can't say that I find them any more suitable for my small hands than my old 105 and I wouldn't say they work any better either. But, the hidden cables are smart and they look good. I got a look at SRAM Force shifters on a mates bike the other day and must say I was very impressed. Simple system, well designed and engineered and good looking. I'd recommend them to anyone. expensive though.

synchronicity

My favourite response I saw a few years back:

"campagnolo will just be wearing in while shimano will be wearing out."