Cycle2Work accessories

Pep

Hi all,
my employer agreed to adopt the Cycle2Work scheme.

I already have more than one very good bycicles, so I have no intention of buying any other. However, there are plenty of accessories (better lights, locks, mudguard, etc...) that I would like tobuy.

Can I use the scheme to buy 'only' accessories but no bycicles? I did some internet search but found no clear-cut answer.

Thanks,

Pep

will3

No I don't think you can. You have to buy a bike for your own use (and use it fo at least 50% of the time)

Pep

will3 wrote:

No I don't think you can. You have to buy a bike for your own use (and use it fo at least 50% of the time)

Thanks.
Do you know or are you guessing ?

will3

Thats what we were told.

will3

Having said which, pick over this:

http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/sustainable/c ... mentat5732

and make your own mind up

(seems unclear to me, but I haven't read it all)

Tobiwan

I think you'd have to ask your intended bike shop and see what they say. If they're happy to do it, I can't see anyone else objecting - then again, I expect quite a few shops may say no , especially the larger chains.

RufusA

Pep wrote:

Can I use the scheme to buy 'only' accessories but no bycicles? I did some internet search but found no clear-cut answer.

Yes, or No, or perhaps maybe.

Under the Finance Act 1999 (where the scheme was introduced):

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/ACTS/acts1999/uk ... -pb6-l1g50

(1) There is no charge to tax under section 154 (taxable benefits: general charging provision) in respect of the provision for an employee of—
(a) a cycle, or
(b) cyclist’s safety equipment,
without any transfer of the property in the cycle or equipment.

So on that basis as it's an "OR", you can have one without the other. i.e. your employer can provide you with "cyclist safety equipment" alone, and not get taxed on it.

Salary sacrifice will work regardless.

So IMHO from a personal taxation point of view there is no reason why you won't be able to have just the equipment.

BUT

1) If your employer is going via a scheme provider, their terms may prevent this.
2) Your employer may not like this, as they would have difficultly claiming capital allowances on small items i.e. reflective waterproofs.
3) Owenership may be difficult to clarify / manage for fitted accesories i.e. mudguards (employer owned) on a bike (employee owned).
4) FMV at end of period will be difficult to access (one pair of reflective cycling shorts, slightly soiled).

You would also have to be careful about working out what could be classed as "cyclist safety equipment" i.e. which of the following would be in/out of scope?

Mudguards
Lights
Pannier / Rack
Jersey with a reflective element
SPD shoes with a reflective element
Pump
Camelback
Aerobars
Gloves
Shorts
etc.

Good luck.

Rufus.

spen666

will3 wrote:

No I don't think you can. You have to buy a bike for your own use (and use it fo at least 50% of the time)

50% of what time?

surely not at least 12 hours per day
:oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:

I think you mean it must be used mainly for commuting

spen666

RufusA wrote:

... one pair of reflective cycling shorts, slightly soiled
...

Reflective cycle shorts? Made out of Scotchguard?

will3

spen666 wrote:

will3 wrote:

No I don't think you can. You have to buy a bike for your own use (and use it fo at least 50% of the time)

50% of what time?

surely not at least 12 hours per day
:oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:

I think you mean it must be used mainly for commuting

no you can use it as much as you like out of work. We're supposed to use it for >50% commutes. Not that anyone is actually checking, though I did get asked as to it's whereabouts when it was in disgrace in the garge having pu****ured 2 days running, I was using another bike.

Roubaix Rider

Sod the law! It depends on how friendly your are with your LBS.

I know of a few bike shops that would happily sell some bling parts as part of, if not all of, your Cycle2 Work allowance. Good luck to them too. It's a win-win situation. You get bling for less than retail, the shop sells bling and firms up customer loyalty and you get to screw the tax man to boot!!

It might come unstuck if your employer insists on seeing your new bike and proof of purchase, but I'm sure there are ways around that as well.

Yeah, yeah, I know we pay for it in the long term via income tax and all that bollocks, but you get the point...

RufusA

will3 wrote:

no you can use it as much as you like out of work. We're supposed to use it for >50% commutes.

Incorrect IMHO.

Section 244 of the Income Tax, Earning and Pensions Act 2003

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/ACTS/acts2003/uk ... ch3-l1g244

"Condition B is that the employee uses the cycle or equipment in question mainly for qualifying journeys."

It doesn't matter how many or little commutes you do. What matters is how much of the distance traveled on the bicycle constitutes as "qualifying".

i.e. You can drive to work 98% of the time, but if you've ridden on the bike for only 30 miles, and 16 of which was one round trip to work, you've passed the mainly for qualifying test.
Perversley if you commute to work every day on a bike in all weathers, but at the weekend do a couple of club runs that are further than your total commuting distance, you don't get any tax exception!

The IR suggest the Work Buses definition is used for qualifying:

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/eimanual/EIM21850.htm

Rufus.

Roubaix Rider

RufusA wrote:

will3 wrote:

no you can use it as much as you like out of work. We're supposed to use it for >50% commutes.

Incorrect IMHO.

Section 244 of the Income Tax, Earning and Pensions Act 2003

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/ACTS/acts2003/uk ... ch3-l1g244

"Condition B is that the employee uses the cycle or equipment in question mainly for qualifying journeys."

It doesn't matter how many or little commutes you do. What matters is how much of the distance traveled on the bicycle constitutes as "qualifying".

i.e. You can drive to work 98% of the time, but if you've ridden on the bike for only 30 miles, and 16 of which was one round trip to work, you've passed the mainly for qualifying test.
Perversley if you commute to work every day on a bike in all weathers, but at the weekend do a couple of club runs that are further than your total commuting distance, you don't get any tax exception!

The IR suggest the Work Buses definition is used for qualifying:

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/eimanual/EIM21850.htm

Rufus.

:shock: Who the blazing saddles is going to check your mileage? Any Anal Bean Counters watching this?! :twisted:

attica

Hmmm

I'd quite like to replace the wheels on my year old cycle to work bike for some better ones, does anyone think this is allowable?
I might just have to find a tame LBS who'll give me a receipt for a bike of the same value and continue riding last years with spangly new wheels.

will3

RufusA wrote:

will3 wrote:

no you can use it as much as you like out of work. We're supposed to use it for >50% commutes.

Incorrect IMHO.

Section 244 of the Income Tax, Earning and Pensions Act 2003

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/ACTS/acts2003/uk ... ch3-l1g244

"Condition B is that the employee uses the cycle or equipment in question mainly for qualifying journeys."



Rufus.

Maybe, but
a)I'm just going on what we were told.
b) how are you quantifying journeys? Miles? Number of trips?
c) No-one's counting or actually GAS

garryac

I bought a bike under the scheme...not for commuting mind..a nice mountain bike..I did want to buy a good set of wheels only for my other bike, but was not allowed to ..the guy from the well known bike shop sugested buying a either a really cheap bike so I could buy the wheels I wanted as well and then flogging it on ebay!..of buying the cheapest kids bike they had and just giving it away....when you get you cheque for the bike and accesories it dosn't actually say anyweher what the bike or accesorries are..just the amount of cash you have decided to spend. I got a cheque for 800 and could have gone into the sop and bought anything at all

RufusA

Attica wrote:

I'd quite like to replace the wheels on my year old cycle to work bike for some better ones, does anyone think this is allowable?

IMHO not directly as the wheels are neither a cycle, or cyclist safety equipment.

Attica wrote:

I might just have to find a tame LBS who'll give me a receipt for a bike of the same value and continue riding last years with spangly new wheels.

It would in theory be up to your employer to find a tame LBS as the wheels would be your employer's and not yours. Obviously it would be up to you whether you felt comfortable about submitting false receipts to your employer! Is risking your job worth a few quid tax saving?

IMHO there is no reason why you couldn't sell your bike to a friendly LBS for its FMV (5%), they could then add wheels of your choice, and you could buy the complete cycle of the LBS under the cycle to work scheme for 5% + wheel cost! Totally above board, and IMHO everyone would be happy with not a false receipt in sight!

The only downside is you'd lose ownership of the bike for another 12 months!

HTH - Rufus.

RufusA

will3 wrote:

a)I'm just going on what we were told.

You may have been mis-informed then!

It's a subtle but important distinction, as saying >50% of commuting you exclude all fair weather cyclists who'd be interested in cycling to work over the summer months.

will3 wrote:

b) how are you quantifying journeys? Miles? Number of trips?

I'm not, the wording of the legislation is ambiguous and IMHO deliberately open to interpretation. There is AFAIK no case law to test what the wording means.

IF the IR were to investigate, they would probably look at the overall balance of miles, number of trips and possibly time. However as there is no requirement to record journeys, it would be nigh impossible to prove.

IMHO it's just there to stop flagarant abuses, and prevent people profiting from the scheme for a cycle they never use for actually cycling to work!

will3 wrote:

c) No-one's counting or actually GAS

Very true!

Rufus.

secretsam

Roubaix Rider wrote:

[Any Anal Bean Counters watching this?! :twisted:

WTF is an "Anal Bean"?!?!?!?!?! :shock:

will3

SecretSam wrote:

Roubaix Rider wrote:

[Any Anal Bean Counters watching this?! :twisted:

WTF is an "Anal Bean"?!?!?!?!?! :shock:

I dare you to google it............

spen666

RufusA wrote:

Attica wrote:

I'd quite like to replace the wheels on my year old cycle to work bike for some better ones, does anyone think this is allowable?

IMHO not directly as the wheels are neither a cycle, or cyclist safety equipment.

....

Is a bike safer without wheels or with wheels? :?

will3

spen666 wrote:

RufusA wrote:

Attica wrote:

I'd quite like to replace the wheels on my year old cycle to work bike for some better ones, does anyone think this is allowable?

IMHO not directly as the wheels are neither a cycle, or cyclist safety equipment.

....

Is a bike safer without wheels or with wheels? :?

If a bike with no wheels falls over in the woods and there's noone to hear it, is it a bike?

meanwhile

If you want new wheels, find an LBS that has the scheme, then have them buy the bike, refurbish it, and sell it back. Unless the scheme doesn't cover used bikes, this would actually seem to be quite proper. You could follow a similar procedure for accessories. But be aware that the LBS might have a scheme admin charge that you might have to pay which could make low spending deals a pain.

mrchrispy

I though you could only get accessories when buying a bike.
my plan is to get a really really crap bike and spend the other 900 quid bling.

cygnet

Pep wrote:

Can I use the scheme to buy 'only' accessories but no bycicles? I did some internet search but found no clear-cut answer.

You could try asking them instead - I got this response from the DfT:
"You asked for confirmation of whether you can purchase cyclists' safety equipment without purchasing a cycle. I can confirm that a cycle has to be purchased. Safety equipment can be purchased as well but only in conjunction with the purchase of a cycle.
......
I acknowledge that there are some cyclists who already commute to work and may not need a new cycle but may want to upgrade new equipment. The scheme is particularly aimed at potential new cyclist commuters and although we want those who already commute to continue I can only suggest that when the time comes to replace your new cycle you then take advantage of the scheme and purchase a new cycle with the safety equipment you require"

So according to them, no.
I was not impressed.

Pep

I asked the question to Wiggle via their website and just got an answer from their finance director.

Question:
Hello,
my employer is starting to adopt the Cycle2Work scheme. I am not going
to buy one more bicycle (already have 4!), but I would like to buy
accessories. Standard things, lights, reflective jackets, panniers,
lock, .... Can I use the scheme to buy ONLY accessories ?
Thank you,

Answer:
Please note that you can just buy safety accessories through the scheme. The items you have listed all qualify.

alfablue

Well Wiggle didn't really answer your question in full, and I presume a bike purchase is still necessary. You could buy a cheap bike and sell it on, but the C2W saving might be eaten up by the lower than RRP you are likely to get.

spen666

alfablue wrote:

Well Wiggle didn't really answer your question in full, and I presume a bike purchase is still necessary. You could buy a cheap bike and sell it on, but the C2W saving might be eaten up by the lower than RRP you are likely to get.

????????????????????????


The legislation wording is clear its a bike OR safety equipment
Wiggle are clear- you can buy just safety equipment

alfablue

So the DfT are wrong:

You could try asking them instead - I got this response from the DfT:
"You asked for confirmation of whether you can purchase cyclists' safety equipment without purchasing a cycle. I can confirm that a cycle has to be purchased. Safety equipment can be purchased as well but only in conjunction with the purchase of a cycle.

cygnet

Wiggle's FAQ are inconsistent with their reply

Wiggle:
What can I buy?
You can buy any bike and cycle safety equipment.

Evans say the same:
Can I purchase accessories only?
No, the rules set by the DfT say that you can only purchase a bike and accessories

I'm just pointing this out. They say rules not law.

As a side query, has anyone found out about warranties etc. (because the bike and/or equipment you end up with is effectively second hand bought from your employer)?

Pat920

It's all abut risk...
Bike shops will not sell accessories only, and most are quite cautious about what qualifies as "safety equipment"
Purchasers should also beware. Remember that you are not getting 50% off the price of a bike - you are getting a reduction in the tax and NI you pay in the qualifying period. I can't imagine it happening, but if anyone who mattered decided that you don't qualify for the scheme you can lose the reduction, so you would be effectively paying full price.
Also, as I understand it, if your C2W bike is stolen, you no longer qualify for the tax and NI exemption.
I did toy with the idea of getting a load of "safety gear" and the cheapest bike I'd consider buying - a unicycle. Then I got worried about having to commute on it...