Campag 11 speed launced

James_London

The lever shape shoulod be about optimising ergonomics, surely? Although my first reaction to the new lever's aesthetics is not favourable, it certainly warrants actually riding the stuff to see how it works for you.

Chain durability with a 5.5mm rather than a 5.9mm chain will be interesting but it takes over 1000kg to break these things anyway. Poor fitting is more of a risk generally than the mechanical propertise of a narrower chain per se.

GazelleBoy

Just had a thought.
Will the jockeys wheels actually way more than a set with no cut outs when they are filled in with road/oil gunk. So the point of having the cut-outs would be cancelled out

Ewen

If I had the cash i would. Bet shimano are a bit hacked off, I suspect that they may however good it is and it will be regret making the new dura ace chainset look like a copy of an early 90's two tone job that you used to find on ralieghs. I think though that campag are being a littlw dismissive getting rid of the low end group, Mirage in paricular served well on a lot of the entry level bikes and gort people into their gear, it was also an ideal winter group. Thay will really leave shoimano as the only option for some.

dennisn

GazelleBoy wrote:

Just had a thought.
Will the jockeys wheels actually way more than a set with no cut outs when they are filled in with road/oil gunk. So the point of having the cut-outs would be cancelled out

Interesting theory. My only question is what is the point of the cutouts in the first place??
And don't give me that weight thing. No one ever won or lost a race or failed to climb a hill
because of overly heavy jockey wheels. It's like saying that you lost a race because of bar end plug problems.

Dennis Noward

redddraggon

dennisn wrote:

My only question is what is the point of the cutouts in the first place??
And don't give me that weight thing.

It is about the weight, if the Record Deraillers on paper are 10 or 20g or whatever lighter on paper, the weight weenies are more likely to get it over the heavier one.

dennisn

redddraggon wrote:

dennisn wrote:

My only question is what is the point of the cutouts in the first place??
And don't give me that weight thing.

It is about the weight, if the Record Deraillers on paper are 10 or 20g or whatever lighter on paper, the weight weenies are more likely to get it over the heavier one.

If true, I guess that's why I don't even have a clue about "weight wennies". I just can't imagine what would prompt them to think that these cutouts actually mean anything in the
grand scheme of things except, so called, bragging rights. I mean, is it really possible for a
human being to convince himself that these cutouts will make him a faster, better cyclist
or give him some advantage over ones without holes??? No one can truly believe this
can they?? I'm serious - can they?? How, Why, WTF??? Is it really that easy to fool
people??

Dennis Noward

tabmaster

Well, I think it is easy to fool people with marketing shite... but there might be other reasons for buying it. That Campag does last the test of time after all is one good example. If I do buy it, it will only be the mechs, shifters and chainset. No need to replace the headset or the brake calipers or the hubs (or so it would seem about the hubs). The excess gear will get put on my soon to be renovated Cougar (that still has Ultegra 8 speed on it).
The one thing that they (Campag) have done that I do not like it the black painted finish. Cheap option IMHO. Finely polished alloy looks better on the hubs, headset and calipers (oddly enough the bits I'm keeping from my 5 year old 10 speed group).

Monty Dog

With FSA rumoured to be launching their road grouppo soon, competition for the top-end is fairly hot and this is why we're seeing these developments - funny how people moan about progress but if you asked if they'd be happy with heavy steel frames, DT shifters and flexy, squeally brakes, I'd guess they'd answer differently.

There's only one reason why they've dropped Mirage and Xenon - economics and being undercut in the highly competitive OEM market by Shimano. Shimano succeeded in killing-off competition in the OEM MTB market and they're doing the same for road.

If you're concerned about gunk building up in the cut-outs of your jockey wheels, then suggest your don't but a £1200 groupset - I doubt there's going to be many Super Record owners going to let that happen anyway, that's what the LBS is for!

neeb

I'd be interested to hear what someone who likes the feel/ergonomics of the current levers thinks of the new ones. I really don't like the feel of shimano levers but I like the campag ones. What are the chances I will like the new ones? Any feedback on that front from the person at Bike Radar who tested the new levers and found them to be extremely comfortable?

Another thing - the chainset looks nearly identical to the currrent models. Does that mean that the 11 speed chainrings will fit on the 10 speed chainsets? If so, you'd just need levers, chainrings, cassette, chain and mechs to upgrade.

Not that I see any need to upgrade in the near future.

aracer

I was hoping the upgrade path might be as little as levers, chain and cassette.

Rob Sallnow

Ewen wrote:

If I had the cash i would. Bet shimano are a bit hacked off, I suspect that they may however good it is and it will be regret making the new dura ace chainset look like a copy of an early 90's two tone job that you used to find on ralieghs. I think though that campag are being a littlw dismissive getting rid of the low end group, Mirage in paricular served well on a lot of the entry level bikes and gort people into their gear, it was also an ideal winter group. Thay will really leave shoimano as the only option for some.

I haven't seen the lower groups for 2009 yet but I would imagine that Veloce will be very much like the level of current Mirage...possible even Xenon.

They have quietly dumbed down several components of Record over the last couple of years: the 2006 rear mech is better specced than 2008 in that it had the Ti cable anchor bolt...the same with the 2006 front mech which had the two Ti bolts that became light alloy in 2008....the 2006 Record brakes had a Ti anchor bolt assembly which disappeared when Skeleton brakes came in. 2009 Super Record brings these back....admittedly in the case of the mechs with slightly tweaked bodywork or cage and of course the ceramic jockeys.

So basically Super Record is merely getting back to the pinnacle of Record spec of 2006.

2009 Chorus brakes are now more like 2008 Centaur....so I don't reckon that current Mirage buyers will have to worry too much by the name change of the entry level group to Veloce.

neeb

I was hoping the upgrade path might be as little as levers, chain and cassette.

Yeah, now I think about it I don't see why the old mechs shouldn't work. At worst you might need to change the jockey wheels on the rear mech?

The BR article mentioned tighter spacing between the front chainrings as well as the rear cogs. Could that cause problems using an 11 speed chain on a 10 speed crankset, even if the chainrings and chain meshed OK? Maybe not, but if so, I wonder if the tighter spacing is a result of narrowing the carbon attachment points of the chainrings on the spider, or of sculpting the 11 speed chainrings so that their spacing is narrower when mounted on the same carbon spider. If the latter, you would just need to change the chainrings.

Rob Sallnow

neeb wrote:

I was hoping the upgrade path might be as little as levers, chain and cassette.

I wonder if the tighter spacing is a result of narrowing the carbon attachment points of the chainrings on the spider, or of sculpting the 11 speed chainrings so that their spacing is narrower when mounted on the same carbon spider. If the latter, you would just need to change the chainrings.

I expect it'll be the same as the way a 10 chainset was different to a 9...nothing but the thinner mounting tabs of the outer ring.

jimwin

itisaboutthebike wrote:

tell me gkerr4 - what are 11 sprockets gonna do for you that 10 don't ?

Give you a 27 top ring. That's a very useful 8% lower gear.

That said, I'm going from compact to triple for the time being. I know routes around here where you need low 30's for even the fittest riders. Even with a 34 chainring a 27 rear gear gives you only a 34 inch gear. On long 20+% hills that can still be a knee breaker.

Then there's the cadence issue with compacts... but that's another topic

- JimW

kevin_stephens

Is it just me in the stupmy legged wildernes

Who wonder why they put all that affort iinto an 11 speed block, but can't be bothered to to 165mm cranks, unlike Shimano or SRAM