Suppose I was going to buy a PowerTap wheel thingy....

Jungli

Am thinking of buying a wireless PowerTap hub and not really sure what rim to go for.

I want to use it on my good bike which I will use for sportives etc during the summer, but also want it for use on my training bike during the winter. As I want to use it through the winter I can't bear the thought of running Zipp 303's which was what I wanted originally.

Any ideas?

Open pro rims? The slightly more aero mavic rims?

What other options are there for quite a nice, lightweight, durable wheelset..

Cheers


J

Alex_Simmons/RST

Velocity Aerohead OC.

I train and race on them. Good wheel.

bahzob

I have got a wireless Powertap on DT Swiss rims, fine but need to get new rims now (after 10,000 miles or so). But if starting down the power route again not sure I would necessarily get the Powertap.

IMO at same price the Ergomo (which I got later for single speed/MTB) is worth considering. It uses BB so requires a face/chase to swap between bikes and limits choice of chainrings. And it is sensitive to set up. However has two big benefits:
- once installed you can swap wheels to your hearts content. Always useful but especially during winter/spring if you are having to mix turbo/road work.
- the head unit is in a different league to the Powertaps (which is an absolute disgrace given how much it costs). I almost wish I had not got the Ergomo since now every time I use the Powertap I realise how rubbish it is.

To further complicate matters Ptap does not talk to non Ptap units. some SRMs (and Quarq which may come out at some point) are more expensive but do. With these you can get best of all worlds (if can afford it) using an Edge 705 or similar as head unit (especially useful if do sportives.)

http://blog.trainingpeaks.com/2008/02/first-look-quarq-cinqo-and-garmin-edge-705.html

While SRM/Quarq cost more it may be a lot cheaper in the long run as at some point regardless what wheels you get you will wish you had better ones and probably end up getting another Ptap (I know, I have got 303s on order. Friend who races has just got 404s). If you ever want to time trial seriously (I dont) then definitely do not get a Powertap.

If you want to try before you buy http://www.cyclepowermeters.com/ may be useful as you can rent out Ptaps, SRMs or Ergomos from them. Also chap there very helpful and sure can give advice.

Ric_Stern/RST

At RST/Cyclecoach.com we sell all three power meters.

There's pros and cons too each system. Each system has excellent points and some of them have dire points.

For e.g.
Power Tap +ve accurate, least expensive, reliable; -ve wheels, computer functionality
SRM Pro +ve accurate (with regular calibration); reliable, any wheel, new unit is Garmin compatible; -ve very expensive; requires regular calibration
Ergomo +ve any wheels, great computer, price; -ve crank selection, not always accurate

For the PT if you want to TT with it cheaply, just get some disc covers fitted to the wheel.

Ric

Alex_Simmons/RST

bahzob wrote:

To further complicate matters Ptap does not talk to non Ptap units. some SRMs (and Quarq which may come out at some point) are more expensive but do. With these you can get best of all worlds (if can afford it) using an Edge 705 or similar as head unit (especially useful if do sportives.)

It would seem you have missed the announcement that PTs have now moved from their proprietary ANT wireless system to the open ANT+ wireless system and is now compatible with Garmin units or other such devices that use the ANT+ protocols:
http://www.velonews.com/article/77542/s ... -powertaps

But then the Garmin has even less storage than the PT CPU! 4hrs at 1-sec.

And the ergomo - after a while of use the battery starts running out before your ride finishes. That's pretty crap if you ask me!

I won't get an ergomo since it only measures left leg power

bahzob

Good news re the Ptap (did miss it) . But dont think the units selling now are Ant compatible?

Not had a problem with Ergomo yet but have had battery problems with my Ptap hub. But accept that given its got a rechargeable battery it will probably go duff at some point.

Sadly at the mo dont think the ideal powermeter exists.

Do you happen to know if there is an independent site anywhere that summarises the current choices/pros/cons of each?

Alex_Simmons/RST

bahzob wrote:

Good news re the Ptap (did miss it) . But dont think the units selling now are Ant compatible?

Not had a problem with Ergomo yet but have had battery problems with my Ptap hub. But accept that given its got a rechargeable battery it will probably go duff at some point.

Sadly at the mo dont think the ideal powermeter exists.

Do you happen to know if there is an independent site anywhere that summarises the current choices/pros/cons of each?

AFAIK, the most recent summary was completed by Ride Magazine here in Australia early last year (not online though). Before then, most summaries are pre-wireless PTs.

Having said that, the wireless unit operates essentially the same as the wired unit, except without, er wires....

Kraig Willett did a review at biketechreview.com

There is one included with Training & Racing with a Power meter book.

None have reviewed the Quarq power meter or the Qranium CPU AFAIK.

some link on the resources page here:
http://www.trainwithpower.net/

Mike Willcox

Ric_Stern/RST wrote:

At RST/Cyclecoach.com we sell all three power meters.

There's pros and cons too each system. Each system has excellent points and some of them have dire points.

For e.g.
Power Tap +ve accurate, least expensive, reliable; -ve wheels, computer functionality
SRM Pro +ve accurate (with regular calibration); reliable, any wheel, new unit is Garmin compatible; -ve very expensive; requires regular calibration
Ergomo +ve any wheels, great computer, price; -ve crank selection, not always accurate

For the PT if you want to TT with it cheaply, just get some disc covers fitted to the wheel.

Ric

Roll up. Roll up Roll up folks.

We have not one , not two but thrree, yes three Power Meters to choose from. Best prices at honest Ric's. Hurry while stocks last.

Jungli

Thanks for that Mike... very helpful.

Ric_Stern/RST

Mike Willcox wrote:

Ric_Stern/RST wrote:

At RST/Cyclecoach.com we sell all three power meters.

There's pros and cons too each system. Each system has excellent points and some of them have dire points.

For e.g.
Power Tap +ve accurate, least expensive, reliable; -ve wheels, computer functionality
SRM Pro +ve accurate (with regular calibration); reliable, any wheel, new unit is Garmin compatible; -ve very expensive; requires regular calibration
Ergomo +ve any wheels, great computer, price; -ve crank selection, not always accurate

For the PT if you want to TT with it cheaply, just get some disc covers fitted to the wheel.

Ric

Roll up. Roll up Roll up folks.

We have not one , not two but thrree, yes three Power Meters to choose from. Best prices at honest Ric's. Hurry while stocks last.

Whether you like it or not, power meters are a useful way of helping cyclists to train more effectively. Just because you don't appear to understand how they work or what benefits they can offer, does not make them some way of getting rid of peoples money.

As ever you're really helpful Mike to the person that was originally asking about them

Ric

Jungli

Anywhooo....

I am now renting a powertap from from cyclepowermeters and am going to give that a go for the next couple of months. I have bought a copy of the Hunter/Coggan book and am quite excited about all the stuff that I am learning and am looking forward to carrying out the testing procedures.

Assuming I like training with power I will probably buy a powertap on something like an open pro rim, perhaps even a ceramic rim.

At present I don't do any TTs but I'd like to give maybe a 10 and a 25 a go in the near future. Mostly its for training to do longer and harder sportives faster...

Having given the powertap a brief run the computer seems to do the job and shows all that I need to see at present but I do not have any experience with any of the others.

Thanks for all the helpful feedback. I don't doubt I'll be posting the odd power related question sometime in the future..

Alex_Simmons/RST

Jungli wrote:

Anywhooo....

I am now renting a powertap from from cyclepowermeters and am going to give that a go for the next couple of months. I have bought a copy of the Hunter/Coggan book and am quite excited about all the stuff that I am learning and am looking forward to carrying out the testing procedures.

Assuming I like training with power I will probably buy a powertap on something like an open pro rim, perhaps even a ceramic rim.

At present I don't do any TTs but I'd like to give maybe a 10 and a 25 a go in the near future. Mostly its for training to do longer and harder sportives faster...

Having given the powertap a brief run the computer seems to do the job and shows all that I need to see at present but I do not have any experience with any of the others.

Thanks for all the helpful feedback. I don't doubt I'll be posting the odd power related question sometime in the future..

Good for you!

Will be interested to hear of your experiences and learnings.

Mike Willcox

Ric_Stern/RST wrote:

Mike Willcox wrote:

Ric_Stern/RST wrote:

At RST/Cyclecoach.com we sell all three power meters.

There's pros and cons too each system. Each system has excellent points and some of them have dire points.

For e.g.
Power Tap +ve accurate, least expensive, reliable; -ve wheels, computer functionality
SRM Pro +ve accurate (with regular calibration); reliable, any wheel, new unit is Garmin compatible; -ve very expensive; requires regular calibration
Ergomo +ve any wheels, great computer, price; -ve crank selection, not always accurate

For the PT if you want to TT with it cheaply, just get some disc covers fitted to the wheel.

Ric

Roll up. Roll up Roll up folks.

We have not one , not two but thrree, yes three Power Meters to choose from. Best prices at honest Ric's. Hurry while stocks last.

Whether you like it or not, power meters are a useful way of helping cyclists to train more effectively. Just because you don't appear to understand how they work or what benefits they can offer, does not make them some way of getting rid of peoples money.

As ever you're really helpful Mike to the person that was originally asking about them

Ric

I challenge you to remove your web link from your posts. Otherwise your credibility is zero.

Ric_Stern/RST

how about you contact jeff jones (so that i cannot be accussed of bias) or someone else from bikeradar, and i'll go along with what *they* say.

Ric

Mike Willcox

Ric_Stern/RST wrote:

how about you contact jeff jones (so that i cannot be accussed of bias) or someone else from bikeradar, and i'll go along with what *they* say.

Ric

Why?

Even if they say it's OK it changes nothing. This is a forum and not a marketing magazine and as such should be self regulating as far as any business promotiona are concerned. If you choose to advertise your services on an internet forum then you forfeit credibility automatically.

Ric_Stern/RST

Mike Willcox wrote:

Ric_Stern/RST wrote:

how about you contact jeff jones (so that i cannot be accussed of bias) or someone else from bikeradar, and i'll go along with what *they* say.

Ric

Why?

Even if they say it's OK it changes nothing. This is a forum and not a marketing magazine and as such should be self regulating as far as any business promotiona are concerned. If you choose to advertise your services on an internet forum then you forfeit credibility automatically.

Why does mentioning my site lose me credibility? It would be seen as odd from a business perspective if i didn't mention my url. The link is there for a purpose, that is to my mention my url without making it an overtly marketing exercise.

ric

deal

how about you both meet up and discuss it....

....two men enter, one man leaves. sorry watched mad max boxset last night :oops:

andy_wrx

I don't know. If someone chooses to advertise their services and are blatant and obvious about who they are and that they have a material interest, well it's obvious that that's what they're doing, I see no problem.

However, there was recently someone from a certain sportive website creating usernames and then posting under these usernames to say how wonderful that certain sportive website was, how it had all the details of the sportives, what a great guy the editor of the website was, etc...that was a bit different !

sloboy

Quite. And if Ric posted without declaring his interest, that might be more misleading.

nolf

All covered before in various other threads, try only posting things relevant to the original thread guys!

Tell us how you get on with the Power meter, I'm quite interested in getting one, or possibly just renting one periodically to see how my power output over chaingangs/races and TT's change over time depending on what training I'm doing.

Enjoy!

blackhands

Back to rims - I'd go for a DT Swiss 1.2 - my wheelbuilder (Harry Rowland) reckons Open Pro are too light.

guv001

Sorry for my ignorance but what exactly is the problem with the Powertap computer? I am considering getting one also so would appreciate unbiased comment.

blackhands

No problems whatsoever - accurate, reliable and convenient - especially the wireless version. Bought mine from Ric by the way.

As I have said above, Harry Rowland reckons that as the hub flanges are closer together than normal you need a stronger rim such as the DT Swiss 1.2 or maybe a Mavic CPX.

Did a comparison ramp test yesterday with a set of accurate SRM cranks and the difference was consistent up to about 400w. Also put it on someones bike who also had powercranks on and did a road race last night - have only had time to glance at the results but they look very similar.