Ferrari has got the boggle eyed anti-cyclist brigade going

Clever Pun

Surf-Matt wrote:

A lot of "us and them" here.

Surely most of us are cyclists AND drivers?!

ahem

Surf-Matt wrote:

Because most drivers are fat bar stewards who are jealous of "us" fit cyclists who will live longer, enjoy life more and spend far less money on our chosen mode of transport?

you're a fat cyclist or slightly schitzo?

I agree with the us and them mentality point though... people need an outlet and since cyclists and drivers paths cross a fair bit and will continue to do so I see no end to it.

neillcp

dang65 wrote:

... but to make car driving such a completely pointless exercise that only the most completely dedicated continue to do it. And one way to do this is to lift all sorts of restrictions from other road users (bicycles, horses, rollerbladers, handcarts etc) whilst simultaneously introducing more and more restrictions on cars.

So, do things like blocking off roads halfway down (which is done in a lot of places already, with gates for emergency vehicles and gaps for cyclists). Make residential streets into a maze, so that you have to drive about five miles to get out of your enclave onto the "open road".

Isn't that the case already? And yet still they sit there, day after day after day, crawling along.

Bless them though, they're expressing their individuality!

saveswalking

I like the idea of traffic 'calming' using human beings (shared road use) - gradually increasing the squeeze.
It works in Holland and a certain 'pelican' crossing on the City Road in London :P

sw

spen666

saveswalking wrote:

I like the idea of traffic 'calming' using human beings (shared road use) - gradually increasing the squeeze.
It works in Holland and a certain 'pelican' crossing on the City Road in London :P

sw

i don't like being the traffic calming measure as there are too many out there who couldn't give a toss about my safety if it means them slowing down

dirk_van_gently

Perhaps we need to go back to having a man with a red flag walking in front of the car.
Then again, even THAT did not deter people from driving!

rhext

I hate generalisation but:

There seems to be a (I think quite small) group of motorists who believe that good drivers (ie themselves) can be trusted to behave responsibly in all circumstances and that most traffic laws are therefore an infringement of their personal freedoms. You'll have seen their letters....speed cameras are unsafe and unfair, I have to watch my speedo when I should be watching the road, I can be trusted to drive at a speed appropriate to the road conditions, fixed penalties are yet another unfair tax on motorists etc etc.

I can imagine that such people might get very upset at the existance of a group of people who appear to break traffic laws without any fear of retribution. If motorists jump red lights, the cameras get 'em, £60 fine and three more points on their already overloaded licenses. Cyclists jump red lights and get away with it every time. The fact that most traffic lights are primarily there to stop motor vehicles from bashing in to each other, and that cameras are there to reduce the average approx 10 people per day who get squashed by motor vehicles seems to escape them.

Thankfully, most drivers remain courteous. Slogging up a 15% hill yesterday, not only did an oncoming driver wait several minutes for me to struggle round a line of parked cars (his right of way), he also gave me a clap and a cheer on the way. Of the 200 or so cars I pass every morning, it's only one or two who behave inconsiderately. Unfortunately it's those one or two you tend to remember.

prj45

rhext wrote:

I can imagine that such people might get very upset at the existance of a group of people who appear to break traffic laws without any fear of retribution

Yup, I've put it down to jealousy in this respect many times.

I once had a bit of flame war with a "motorist" over an obsevation about red light jumping cyclists, who I later got to admit had jumped red lights themselves when on a push bike ("but only safely").

I bascially thnk they admitted that when they see a cyclist jump a red light they are jealous that they can't do it themselves (aside fromt he fact many car drivers do, pretty much 100% of them if you count the last car going over the line when the lights are changing).

Bassjunkieuk

As a cyclist and driver I think the cycling has actually helped calm me down as a driver. I used to go around most of the time in "boy racer" mode, as with the petrol prices as they where when I first got the car (about 90p a litre I think!) and the fact it's a Prius I could still get fairly good economy and it was quite nippy to boot!

Nowadays I save the thrills for when I'm on my bike as I can use this a lot more often! I can take it easy when I want or race along when I'm feeling more energetic :-)
As most people have already stated it does feel very much like an "us and them" situation when dealing with car drivers but I think the key thing to getting legislation like this to work is for cyclist to show that they can respect the road traffic laws. We are being made an exception so we can make our journeys shorter, but in my opinion the responsibility should lie with the cyclist to make sure they ride cautiously when doing so i.e not just flying past joining roads and being aware of peds on the pavement. If fewer cyclist broke the law I think car drivers would at least become a bit more accepting of us because it shows we are all playing by the same rules - but still get around quicker then them :-)

prj45

Bassjunkieuk wrote:

As a cyclist and driver I think the cycling has actually helped calm me down as a driver.

I thnk being a cyclist helps make me a far better driver.

I'd strongly advocate a cycling component of the driving test. I'd go so far as to say that a cycle should be the first vehicle people learn to use the roads on before they get promoted to a car.

Cunobelin

I love the hypocrisy.......

A few months ago there was an article on pavement cycling. The ABD went public saying that Cyclists need to obey the HIghway Code and be prosecuted if they break it.

A week later the ABD commented on illegal parking on pavements in that it was an "attack on the rights of motorists" .......

So according to the ABD parking on a pavement is fine, but a cycle on the same pavement is a heinous crime!

Surf-Matt

Clever Pun wrote:

Surf-Matt wrote:

A lot of "us and them" here.

Surely most of us are cyclists AND drivers?!

ahem

Surf-Matt wrote:

Because most drivers are fat bar stewards who are jealous of "us" fit cyclists who will live longer, enjoy life more and spend far less money on our chosen mode of transport?

you're a fat cyclist or slightly schitzo?

I agree with the us and them mentality point though... people need an outlet and since cyclists and drivers paths cross a fair bit and will continue to do so I see no end to it.

I was waiting for someone to point that out!
The fat bit refers to angry bike hating motorists, the "we are drivers" bit refers to many if "us" who also drive. Just putting a bit of balance to the argument.

Angry drivers are bad drivers and I can't imagine "us" cyclists cutting up and nearly killing a rider just to save 10 seconds.

Kyrotek

I'm a Cyclist who became driver who is about to become a cyclist again. I've had to wait for years to be able to get a bike and start commuting which I plan to turn into a hobby/fitness in the evenings after the children have gone to bed.

Like most situations, this problem arises from the few rather than the many, on both sides of the argument. It's all about responsibility which grows from not being selfish. Who here remembers the cycling proficiency tests? It taught you how to be safe and confident on the road and even involved the highway code to a very small degree.

Nowadays the minority do as they please on bikes. Riding on the pavement in my day was a no no and I hold by that now, especially as my city has provided many cycle paths to help commuters out. Riding through a red light is something I won't do either but many happily do so because they think the lights are for motorised vehicles only. Many other things that our less-than-responsible youth culture do on bikes annoy pedestrians too.

This is what causes some drivers to act stupidly and without respect for fellow road users. I personally can't abide the drivers who treat cyclists with such flagrant, and downright dangerous, disregard or contempt even! Just because you're greener, fitter and having a much more pleasant journey doesn't make you an enemy in my books. I look forward to joining the community who ride the open road under their own power, I just hope I can do it safely.