The new Dura-Ace

cydonian74

redddraggon wrote:

I'm more of a Campag fan, but when the new DA was announced I was considering that for my next build (whenever that's going to be) thinking it would have the same RRP as the current DA, but if the price does jump to over £1000 I think I'd rather stick with Record.

My LBS has just ordered a complete Dura Ace groupset in for stock(one of the first 200 groups into the country)...sorry folks, its RRP IS £1200. GULP!!! :shock:

redddraggon

cydonian74 wrote:

redddraggon wrote:

I'm more of a Campag fan, but when the new DA was announced I was considering that for my next build (whenever that's going to be) thinking it would have the same RRP as the current DA, but if the price does jump to over £1000 I think I'd rather stick with Record.

My LBS has just ordered a complete Dura Ace groupset in for stock(one of the first 200 groups into the country)...sorry folks, its RRP IS £1200. GULP!!! :shock:

Who buys at RRP though? It's likely to be at around £1000 once they have to discount to get it selling, and even then you can get Record or Red for that.

4candles

McBain_v1 wrote:

I think Rob's sig shows where his loyalties lie :?

Deffo..

Whats he going to say when the Di2 Electric Dura Ace comes out.. a close friend on the pro circuit has used it, and says that all other manufacturers groupsets will be in the 'childrens toys' catagory... oh sram were pretty good aparently.


lol.4C

Rob Sallnow

McBain_v1 wrote:

I think Rob's sig shows where his loyalties lie :?

My sig shows I prefer to use Campag...Campag from a couple of years ago when it looked better than the current carbon mad bling fest....but the post was an objective view on the visuals of the new DA group.

giant_man

4candles wrote:

McBain_v1 wrote:

I think Rob's sig shows where his loyalties lie :?

Deffo..

Whats he going to say when the Di2 Electric Dura Ace comes out.. a close friend on the pro circuit has used it, and says that all other manufacturers groupsets will be in the 'childrens toys' catagory... oh sram were pretty good aparently.


lol.4C

Just pure speculation, thats all this is ....... only time will tell

pliptrot

Change for the sake of it? Groupset changes have always brought improvements, but I'm guessing there's not much further to go. This new DA groupset is still above 2kg, which I think will be the psychological barrier for many. I was absolutely in favour of more sprockets until the chains and sprockets started getting narrower (i.e. post 8-speed) and think the move to 11 speed -which will undoubtedly drag Shimano along with it - is madness.

Broken chains never seemed to be a problem in the past, but it seems that is a problem these days. just ask David Millar. Time was when pro mechanics bought cheap chain by the yard and changed it after every race. Not an option, now, I'm led to believe.

Once Campag et al. realized compromized durability didn't matter, they took us all in. I'm surprised we have all put up with it. This new groupset is exactly in that vein.

mrushton

cydonian74 wrote:

redddraggon wrote:

I'm more of a Campag fan, but when the new DA was announced I was considering that for my next build (whenever that's going to be) thinking it would have the same RRP as the current DA, but if the price does jump to over £1000 I think I'd rather stick with Record.

My LBS has just ordered a complete Dura Ace groupset in for stock(one of the first 200 groups into the country)...sorry folks, its RRP IS £1200. GULP!!! :shock:

And yet it's possibly already obsolete as we read that Shimano will poss. be introducing 11 speed AND bringing out electric shifting

Sfelt

mrushton wrote:

cydonian74 wrote:

redddraggon wrote:

I'm more of a Campag fan, but when the new DA was announced I was considering that for my next build (whenever that's going to be) thinking it would have the same RRP as the current DA, but if the price does jump to over £1000 I think I'd rather stick with Record.

My LBS has just ordered a complete Dura Ace groupset in for stock(one of the first 200 groups into the country)...sorry folks, its RRP IS £1200. GULP!!! :shock:

And yet it's possibly already obsolete as we read that Shimano will poss. be introducing 11 speed AND bringing out electric shifting

Electric shifting has got to be more potential trouble than its worth, I am assuming that there is no manual option when things go awry, that the weight saving factor is nil with the power supply needed, and like electric windows and mirrors in cars it will never take off :shock:

McBain_v1

I dunno, if you have a look at the pictures over on cyclingnews it looks pretty near production standard and the weight is supposed to be less then that 'standard' DA kit as well :!: I think the fact that Campag is also going for an electronic shift system shoes that both feel that there is mileage in this particular route.

I've never seen the SRAM kit "in the flesh" so to speak, but I would be interested in having a bash.

salsarider79

I've to people before and I'll say it again...Why go 11 speed? Whats wrong with 10 speed? Then we have the new electric shifting thing. I can see bikes being made to last 200-300miles and then need to be re-built aka F1 cars....Still, I work in a bike shop, so might not be all bad...

salsarider79

Sorry, I've *said* to people etc, etc...

p.s. try single speed, you never go back to this geared nonsense! :idea:

dennisn

[/quote]

Electric shifting has got to be more potential trouble than its worth, I am assuming that there is no manual option when things go awry, that the weight saving factor is nil with the power supply needed, and like electric windows and mirrors in cars it will never take off :shock:[/quote]

I think I disagree. I mean what's worst case? The power fails. Well, everything else,
except the shifters, still works. Bike is still rideable, still has brakes, crankset and cassette
are still connected by a chain. Doesn't sound any worse than a cable breaking or some
small mechanical part in the shifter going south on you.

Dennis Noward

redddraggon

dennisn wrote:

I think I disagree. I mean what's worst case? The power fails. Well, everything else,
except the shifters, still works. Bike is still rideable, still has brakes, crankset and cassette
are still connected by a chain. Doesn't sound any worse than a cable breaking or some
small mechanical part in the shifter going south on you.

Dennis Noward

The Battery fails and your £1000+ groupset becomes a single speed, a very expensive single speed.

Rob Sallnow

McBain_v1 wrote:

I dunno, if you have a look at the pictures over on cyclingnews it looks pretty near production standard and the weight is supposed to be less then that 'standard' DA kit as well :!: I think the fact that Campag is also going for an electronic shift system shoes that both feel that there is mileage in this particular route.

I've never seen the SRAM kit "in the flesh" so to speak, but I would be interested in having a bash.

Not sure about the Shimano electric group but the Campag group appears to be lighter because they are using composites everywhere....if they made the standard mechs out of this stuff they would be lighter than the electric ones

robbarker

pliptrot wrote:

Groupset changes have always brought improvements, but I'm guessing there's not much further to go. I was absolutely in favour of more sprockets until the chains and sprockets started getting narrower (i.e. post 8-speed)

For me 8 speed was the sweet spot - a wide range of ratios and yet robust 3/32 chains. the shifting was very positive too - for both Campag and Shimano, both of which I've had in their 8 speed guises. It was certainly much better than 9 or 10 speed Shimano have been.

Most development now seems to be either marketing-led or for ease of manufacturing (witness hideous integrated headsets). It would be nice to see engineering and reliablility given a priority - I'd welcome a move to 135 OLN at the rear for road bikes for example.

Having said that electric shifting does seem to be a real step forward for race bikes - I am lookingforward to seeing how it performs in practice.

dennisn

redddraggon wrote:

dennisn wrote:

I think I disagree. I mean what's worst case? The power fails. Well, everything else,
except the shifters, still works. Bike is still rideable, still has brakes, crankset and cassette
are still connected by a chain. Doesn't sound any worse than a cable breaking or some
small mechanical part in the shifter going south on you.

Dennis Noward

The Battery fails and your £1000+ groupset becomes a single speed, a very expensive single speed.

I agree, but how does that differ from a cable breaking?? Maybe, just maybe the designers have taken that into account and you will be able to actually put it into a usable
gear manually. Still a single speed but what isn't in cases like that???

Dennis Noward

redddraggon

dennisn wrote:

redddraggon wrote:

dennisn wrote:

I think I disagree. I mean what's worst case? The power fails. Well, everything else,
except the shifters, still works. Bike is still rideable, still has brakes, crankset and cassette
are still connected by a chain. Doesn't sound any worse than a cable breaking or some
small mechanical part in the shifter going south on you.

Dennis Noward

The Battery fails and your £1000+ groupset becomes a single speed, a very expensive single speed.

I agree, but how does that differ from a cable breaking?? Maybe, just maybe the designers have taken that into account and you will be able to actually put it into a usable
gear manually. Still a single speed but what isn't in cases like that???

Dennis Noward

The batterys only last, what 5/10/20/40 hours? So you'll eventually need to put a fresh battery or charge the battery. A gear cable breaking has got to be a rare occurance surely?

I know that when I go out on my bike I'm not worrying about my gear cables snapping, but I reckon I'd be worrying about the batteries going flat. And if you want to be prepared - which is the easier to carry a spare cable (or 2) or a battery.

I reckon electronic groups will be like tubular tyres - great if you have a team car behind you.

Jez mon

40 Hours is a while, and reports where saying that they survived the TdF on one charge. That's alot of shifting

40 hours won't be acceptable if you tour, but if you're a weekend racer it'll be absolutely fine, how heavy would a spare battery be, and thats a lot easier to replace than a cable out on the road!

Electronic shifting will be brilliant for those of us who can't be bothered to adjust gears properly, of course, if used in the rain, it'll shift straight on to 53x11 and they'll be a small chance of electrocution.

Of course, electronic shifting is not necessary, but it can provide some benefits

Rob Sallnow

Jez mon wrote:

40 Hours is a while, and reports where saying that they survived the TdF on one charge. That's alot of shifting

40 hours won't be acceptable if you tour, but if you're a weekend racer it'll be absolutely fine, how heavy would a spare battery be, and thats a lot easier to replace than a cable out on the road!

Electronic shifting will be brilliant for those of us who can't be bothered to adjust gears properly, of course, if used in the rain, it'll shift straight on to 53x11 and they'll be a small chance of electrocution.

Of course, electronic shifting is not necessary, but it can provide some benefits

So you have to remember to charge your battery every week...or keep a log in your Rapha training diary of how many hours since your last charge!! :?

After a couple of years that 40 hours will be 20 hours.

And all this hassle for what? Save a split second for a gear change and that's it? Pity it takes more than a split scecond to charge the battery up even if you can charge it hilst it's still on the bike.

I haven't adjusted my gears (Campag) since I built up my current bike 14,500+ miles ago

aracer

Hardly every week, even for mile munchers. More like every month for them, and every couple of months for lesser mortals.

Meanwhile is there really no benefit to 11-speed, even for situations where you need an 11-27 cassette, and would still like close-ish ratios in the middle?