Leg strengthening exercises

sian_c

I was wondering if anyone had some good exercises they'd recommend for building leg strength, as it's really holding me back on my cycling? I'd prefer not to have to do them in the gym (that place is sooo dull), but will go if need be.

Also, I'm a naturally slim build (5ft10, 9st8) and find it quite difficult to put muscle on, especially on my legs. So does anyone have any tips on diet as well? Like, things you should eat immediately before/after such exercise to help build up the muscle (but without just making you fat!!)

Cheers.

sprintkid

Find the steepest hill you can find and ride up it LOTS. Start in the easy gears and make it a bit harder each time untill your sprinting up it in the big ring. It works for me

sian_c

Thanks Sprintkid, but I live in Norfolk... Not so many of those steep hills here

Toks

sian_c wrote:

I was wondering if anyone had some good exercises they'd recommend for building leg strength, as it's really holding me back on my cycling? I'd prefer not to have to do them in the gym (that place is sooo dull), but will go if need be.

Also, I'm a naturally slim build (5ft10, 9st8) and find it quite difficult to put muscle on, especially on my legs. So does anyone have any tips on diet as well? Like, things you should eat immediately before/after such exercise to help build up the muscle (but without just making you fat!!)

Cheers.

I very much doubt that its increase leg strength you need unless you've got some diagnose muscles weakness. More importantly increased 'leg strength' doesn't correlate with improved cycling endurance unless you're planning on riding Chris Hoy type track events. What you're looking for is improved sustainable and aerobic power. You can get all that stuff by riding your bike faster. For a less glib answer search 2 x 20's, vo2max intervals, sweet spot etc

sian_c

Hmm, don't exactly understand half of what you said there Toks!

I'm certainly not planning riding "Chris Hoy type track events"!!! I'm going to be embarking on the End to End this summer but am really struggling with keeping my legs going up even fairly gentle hills. I feel like I'm going about as flat out as I comfortably can considering the distance at the moment, yet seeing no improvement - still get to any kind of incline towards the end & can barely get up in the lowest gear - all rather demoralising

BeaconRuth

I think what Toks means is that although you feel as though your problem is 'weak legs', in reality the root of your problem is more likely to be your general cycling fitness and stamina. If you struggle with hills particularly at the end of rides, then it's not a question of whether you have enough strength per se, but whether you have enough endurance so that you can ride up hills as well at the end of a long ride as you could at the beginning.

When you say you aren't improving, for how long have you been working on trying to progressively building up your mileage and speed?

Ruth

Toks

sian_c wrote:

Hmm, don't exactly understand half of what you said there Toks!

I'm certainly not planning riding "Chris Hoy type track events"!!! I'm going to be embarking on the End to End this summer but am really struggling with keeping my legs going up even fairly gentle hills. I feel like I'm going about as flat out as I comfortably can considering the distance at the moment, yet seeing no improvement - still get to any kind of incline towards the end & can barely get up in the lowest gear - all rather demoralising

Hi mate, sorry that will teach me to post while watching TV at the same time. One of things most cyclists feel when struggling on hills is that don't have enough leg strength. In reality you do have the leg strength but your performance is being compromised by low lactate threshold and aerobic power.

In white van man language it simply means "to climb better you need to get a lot fitter" In other words produce more power. This fitness can be gained through a combination of long endurance riding (2-5 hours; shorter fast rides of the 30-90mins variety or short hard intervals of (3-6mins,) such as hill reps. In my own experience most people do the endurance stuff and the short fast stuff but not much of the moderately paced 'friendly fast' rides. This is where you get the most bang for you buck especially if you have less than 10 hours training time per week. As I said check "sweet spot and 2 x 20's. Taking on such a challenge perhaps it would be a good investment to get a coach even for the short term.

andrewgturnbull

sian_c wrote:

Thanks Sprintkid, but I live in Norfolk... Not so many of those steep hills here

sian_c wrote:

am really struggling with keeping my legs going up even fairly gentle hills.

Hi there.

Sian - I thiink your two statements may be related... in a cause and effect kinda way. The basic truth is that you need to practice your weaknesses, as to get better at something you need to do more of if!

Find some hills and ride them!

Cheers, Andy

CyclingBantam

Not sure if this would be appropriate however, if you are struggling finding hills, couldn't you simulate them by riding for periods in the big ring? Not sure if someone will say there are big problems with that but it may help if nobody disagrees.

sian_c

BeaconRuth wrote:

When you say you aren't improving, for how long have you been working on trying to progressively building up your mileage and speed?

I'm probably being rather impatient, as usual! I've only been training for a few months, previously cycling no more than about 6 miles in one go about the city on an old mountain bike. I'm just aware of the big task my brothers and I have set ourselves (LEJOG in 12 days in August) and unsure as how best to get myself fit for it.

sian_c

Toks wrote:

In white van man language it simply means "to climb better you need to get a lot fitter" In other words produce more power. This fitness can be gained through a combination of long endurance riding (2-5 hours; shorter fast rides of the 30-90mins variety or short hard intervals of (3-6mins,) such as hill reps. In my own experience most people do the endurance stuff and the short fast stuff but not much of the moderately paced 'friendly fast' rides. This is where you get the most bang for you buck especially if you have less than 10 hours training time per week. As I said check "sweet spot and 2 x 20's. Taking on such a challenge perhaps it would be a good investment to get a coach even for the short term.

Thanks Toks. Don't think it was the TV (though possibly ) - just that I don't know about all the jargon yet. Your advice on mixing it up a bit sounds good, especially as it should be easier to fit into to an already busy life. Will Google sweet spot and 2x20's to see what they are!

Cheers

le_grimpeur

Undoubtedly, the best way to improve your cycling fitness is more cycling, or rather quality cycling. I'll get back to that in a moment. I have found some leg exercise which improves muscle and fitness.
You'll need a slightly deflated football. Sit on a chair, place the ball between your knees, squeeze your knees together, lift one foot (like you were kicking out- -burt slowly) I do 20 of these each leg. This one is a bit tougher. With your back against a wall, slide down until your thighs are straight out in front, shins thus forming a 90 degree angle. Place the ball in between your knees, hold for a count of 20 seconds, squeezing your knees together. Then, push your self up so your legs are straightened. repeat 20 times. Repeat both parts two more times. There is an optimum space for where I plant my feet to begin this one, I'm sure you'll find your own. My legs do not from an exact angle of 90 degrees.

On your bike, whatever hill you can find, climb it - or a section of it - in a higher gear than usual. On a flat, try 30 seconds of flat out effort, recover, then repeat.

Climber_Andy

Considering you've only been cycling for a few months from 6-mile rides, surely the best way is to just get out riding more, getting in base miles; speed and stren gth will come with distance. Nobody likes to hear it - it takes patience, I suppose - but make the time for that base and then move on to the (shorter, more exciting) intervals if you so wish...

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned this so far: 2x20s and sweetspot training are more high-end things to top off training?

SteveR_100Milers

sian_c wrote:

BeaconRuth wrote:

When you say you aren't improving, for how long have you been working on trying to progressively building up your mileage and speed?

I'm probably being rather impatient, as usual! I've only been training for a few months, previously cycling no more than about 6 miles in one go about the city on an old mountain bike. I'm just aware of the big task my brothers and I have set ourselves (LEJOG in 12 days in August) and unsure as how best to get myself fit for it.

Realistically, going from 6 mile rides to LEJOG in an unlimited time is goiing to be one hell of a challenge in 2 months. To do it in 12 days means an average of 80-90 miles a day. How long have you been riding longer distances for?

sian_c

SteveR_100Milers wrote:

sian_c wrote:

BeaconRuth wrote:

When you say you aren't improving, for how long have you been working on trying to progressively building up your mileage and speed?

I'm probably being rather impatient, as usual! I've only been training for a few months, previously cycling no more than about 6 miles in one go about the city on an old mountain bike. I'm just aware of the big task my brothers and I have set ourselves (LEJOG in 12 days in August) and unsure as how best to get myself fit for it.

Realistically, going from 6 mile rides to LEJOG in an unlimited time is goiing to be one hell of a challenge in 2 months. To do it in 12 days means an average of 80-90 miles a day. How long have you been riding longer distances for?

Yes, yes, I know.... Blame my brothers for the (stupidly optimistic) time schedule. I only got my road bike in February, so since then. Started at 25 miles, then 35. Did a 40-ish (with a break in the middle), and lately done a couple of 55 milers (they've been the problem).

sian_c

le_grimpeur wrote:

Undoubtedly, the best way to improve your cycling fitness is more cycling, or rather quality cycling. I'll get back to that in a moment. I have found some leg exercise which improves muscle and fitness.
You'll need a slightly deflated football. Sit on a chair, place the ball between your knees, squeeze your knees together, lift one foot (like you were kicking out- -burt slowly) I do 20 of these each leg. This one is a bit tougher. With your back against a wall, slide down until your thighs are straight out in front, shins thus forming a 90 degree angle. Place the ball in between your knees, hold for a count of 20 seconds, squeezing your knees together. Then, push your self up so your legs are straightened. repeat 20 times. Repeat both parts two more times. There is an optimum space for where I plant my feet to begin this one, I'm sure you'll find your own. My legs do not from an exact angle of 90 degrees.

On your bike, whatever hill you can find, climb it - or a section of it - in a higher gear than usual. On a flat, try 30 seconds of flat out effort, recover, then repeat.

These sound really good. I know I need to get out on the bike more (the best way to get better at cycling is to go cycling - who'd've thunk it!!), but for times when it's just not gonna happen, it'd be good to be able to do something around the house to help. So thanks.

BeaconRuth

sian_c wrote:

I know I need to get out on the bike more (the best way to get better at cycling is to go cycling - who'd've thunk it!!), but for times when it's just not gonna happen, it'd be good to be able to do something around the house to help. So thanks.

You sound short of time to get out for long rides, so try no to get too hung up on thinking that long rides are the only ones that will be beneficial. If you're really under pressure to get fit for LEJoG and you can't get out for long rides very often then short rides can really help too. You can do some worthwhile training in as little as half an hour to an hour but you do need to raise the pace and work quite hard. Try to wind up your pace so it is quite brisk and really gets your blood pumping, but not so hard that you can't ride like that for half an hour or more. This should be quite a bit harder than you'll ride on the LEJoG but it's superb training for your basic aerobic fitness. Your legs will be getting stronger all the time you're riding that little bit harder, too.

Ruth

jonginge

Nobody else has mentioned it yet so... are you eating/drinking enough during your longer rides? You could be running out of energy as well as lacking endurance. On rides the length of your long ones I would be eating a couple of bananas and drinking a couple of bottles of SIS PSP22 (other sports drinks are available ). Fluid consumption seems to vary quite a lot from person to person, though.

sian_c

JonGinge wrote:

Nobody else has mentioned it yet so... are you eating/drinking enough during your longer rides? You could be running out of energy as well as lacking endurance. On rides the length of your long ones I would be eating a couple of bananas and drinking a couple of bottles of SIS PSP22 (other sports drinks are available ). Fluid consumption seems to vary quite a lot from person to person, though.

I have learnt my lesson on this one! The first time I did this particular 55-mile route I certainly didn't eat enough. But this time I made sure that I ate more, stopping (briefly) every 10miles or so to eat something -- though really didn't like those gel things *yuck*!!

jonginge

I don't get on with the gels either. Cake and coffee at the top of box hill, that's the business, though.

Toks

Climber_Andy wrote:

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned this so far: 2x20s and sweetspot training are more high-end things to top off training?

Perhaps thats because you're the only one who thinks thats true. In fact anyone with less than eight hours to train in will do well to spend a good chunk of time doing either 2 x 20 or sweet spot stuff. See links below
http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtop ... highlight=
http://www.fascatcoaching.com/training_ ... tdeux.html
http://www.fascatcoaching.com/sweetspot.html

Climber_Andy

Toks wrote:

Climber_Andy wrote:

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned this so far: 2x20s and sweetspot training are more high-end things to top off training?

Perhaps thats because you're the only one who thinks thats true. In fact anyone with less than eight hours to train in will do well to spend a good chunk of time doing either 2 x 20 or sweet spot stuff. See links below
http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtop ... highlight=
http://www.fascatcoaching.com/training_ ... tdeux.html
http://www.fascatcoaching.com/sweetspot.html

So you're saying that my (gentle) suggestion to ride more, increasing distance and base mileage, is categorically bad advice? She's shooting for LEJOG, not Cat 3/4 and hour-long crits at Crystal Palace. Of course I see the logic and use of 2x20/sweetspots, but not so fully for this particularly argument.

Either way, I've read elsewhere that with 8-10 hours available, if possible, it should be three sessions:
3-5 hours at weekend, 1-2 hours hard (and or sweetspot/2x20) and 2 hours tempo. Was I misled in taking this on board?

Toks

Climber_Andy wrote:

[
So you're saying that my (gentle) suggestion to ride more, increasing distance and base mileage, is categorically bad advice? ?

Not at all mate. But to wag your finger at 2 x 20's or sweet spot rides for newbies may well be. Sian hasn't given us an idea of weekly training time but unless its in the 15hours plus mark 2 x20's or slightly more manageable sweet spot rides are good to do.

At then end of the day (can't believe I said that :roll: ) training sessions are part of a continum. Someone who can do a 60minute sweet spot ride at 23 mph assuming they get their fuelling correct should have the power output to travel along comfortably at 20mph for a few hours.

Conversely if all your training consists of 15mph longish rides its unlikely that you'll go under the hour since you would have plateaued long ago by maxing out your physiological improvements at that duration and intensity

Long endurance rides are indeed beneficial - if that was't the case Bradley W & GB pursuit boys wouldn't waste their time doing Grand tours - after all their main event is over in around 4 mins. But how many amateurs have got 25+ training time available? Not many- hence the cut to the chase approach such as 2 x 20's etc

Climber_Andy

Thanks for clarifying, that's really good information.

On a personal note, I can do a '10' in 29 mins, having been cycling for 3-4 years. I'm pretty sure I haven't hit a glass ceiling (5'10", skinny and 66kg). So, are 2x20 the way forward (presumably after a winter of getting in the long-distance, slowish rides?) then?

andrewgturnbull

Climber_Andy wrote:

Thanks for clarifying, that's really good information.

On a personal note, I can do a '10' in 29 mins, having been cycling for 3-4 years. I'm pretty sure I haven't hit a glass ceiling (5'10", skinny and 66kg). So, are 2x20 the way forward (presumably after a winter of getting in the long-distance, slowish rides?) then?

Hi there.

Depends which way is forward...

If you want to improve your 10mile pb, then you'll have to do shorter/harder intervals. You should be riding 10m TTs at a noticeably harder pace than your 20minute intervals. I'd chuck in some 3 x 8mins or 6 x 3min sessions too. The 8 minute ones will be close to your 10m target pace, the minute ones faster.

Personally I like to think of the power/time relationship as one big curve. Sweetspot training will push up the middle of the curve, while steady base miles will work on the bottom of the curve. Everyone needs to work on their top end to some degree as well.

Cheers, Andy

Toks

Climber_Andy wrote:

Thanks for clarifying, that's really good information.

On a personal note, I can do a '10' in 29 mins, having been cycling for 3-4 years. I'm pretty sure I haven't hit a glass ceiling (5'10", skinny and 66kg). So, are 2x20 the way forward (presumably after a winter of getting in the long-distance, slowish rides?) then? I

You can do 2 x 20's all year round, no problems.! I've seen your posts over the last few years on various sites ACC etc. You seem to post questions then disappear for a few months. Whats going on? Are you looking to raise your game? Have you trained consitsently over the last few years and more importantly increased either duration, frequency of rides and intensity as you've see improvements?

Mark Alexander

sian_c wrote:

I was wondering if anyone had some good exercises they'd recommend for building leg strength, as it's really holding me back on my cycling? I'd prefer not to have to do them in the gym (that place is sooo dull), but will go if need be.

Also, I'm a naturally slim build (5ft10, 9st8) and find it quite difficult to put muscle on, especially on my legs. So does anyone have any tips on diet as well? Like, things you should eat immediately before/after such exercise to help build up the muscle (but without just making you fat!!)

Cheers.

If you live Norfolk.......
Interval sprints? take a sneaky trip to a Velodrome? I did and my legs killed the next day.

Climber_Andy

Toks wrote:

Climber_Andy wrote:

Thanks for clarifying, that's really good information.

On a personal note, I can do a '10' in 29 mins, having been cycling for 3-4 years. I'm pretty sure I haven't hit a glass ceiling (5'10", skinny and 66kg). So, are 2x20 the way forward (presumably after a winter of getting in the long-distance, slowish rides?) then? I

You can do 2 x 20's all year round, no problems.! I've seen your posts over the last few years on various sites ACC etc. You seem to post questions then disappear for a few months. Whats going on? Are you looking to raise your game? Have you trained consitsently over the last few years and more importantly increased either duration, frequency of rides and intensity as you've see improvements?

Not so consistently, to be honest. Time constraints don't help; I'm at university, and there isn't a great deal of free time - no more than 10 hours a week. And it hasn't been "quality" training - never done intervals before, though in recent weeks have been doing 10-mile burnups ie. 30-minute tempo ride, then effectively 20-min race back... Before that, I was only getting out once a week (on the weekend, due to sec' school)... but there is a gradual improvement to be seen.

Considering my riding time, perhaps it's not surprising at all.
Just particularly in the last couple of months I've been raising my game - riding more, riding longer distances etc - so want to keep doing it, and keep improving. I've always said I'd try Cat 4 once I get down to a sub-'27' minute 10...

On that note, I am first-claim ACC, after all...

PS. Sorry for hijacking your thread sian!

sian_c

Climber_Andy wrote:

PS. Sorry for hijacking your thread sian!

No worries - I've kinda been enjoying the amusing rivalry

And I'm with you on the uni taking up all your time, though I'm actually trying to write up my doctoral thesis, so am taking it to extremes!

Interestingly enough, Andy, are you actually a climber too!? That's my other distraction... Though guess I could now combine trips to somewhere with rocks for climbing with hills for cycling :idea:

And just like with knowing I need to do more bouldering to improve my strength for the cruxes on lead routes, the main thing I've learnt from this thread is that I need to mix things up a bit more with my cycling. I don't have a "training plan" - it's all very ad hoc, as and when I can fit it in. But I know I could be more inventive about it - like taking an extended ride to work & back, so it doens't feel so much like I'm taking time "off".

Cheers everyone!

jonginge

sian_c wrote:

And I'm with you on the uni taking up all your time, though I'm actually trying to write up my doctoral thesis, so am taking it to extremes!

Ah yes. I remember my 100+hr working weeks during my PhD. The only cycling I did was to and from the lab. Still, my route past the bournville factory in birmingham at 3am was very pleasant. mmmm, chocolatey

Toks

Climber_Andy wrote:

Not so consistently, to be honest. Time constraints don't help; I'm at university, and there isn't a great deal of free time - no more than 10 hours a week.

You can make good gains on a little as 7 hours per week. But you just need to do the right thing