How cyclists die!

Eat My Dust

I was commuting in this morning overtaking heavy but slow moving traffic (Watford Road, Wembley) there was heavy moving traffic coming the other way as well. I was doing about 12 mph when a car started to edge out of a driveway. So, I pull out a bit as was pretty sure he hadn't seen me when a guy on a white Cube road bike flashes past me at easily over 20 mph missing me by probably less than an inch. If we had collided at least one of us would have found ourselves under the wheels of a car. So if you're the guy on the white Cube wearing baggies and carrying a rucksack, a headsup that you're going to pass next time might save both our lives.

PS you won't survive long overtaking heavy traffic at those speeds.

Eat My Dust

Hmm, I meant to put this in commuting. Saying that the guy was cycling like a beginner!!!!

CrookedCucumber

Sigh. It really hurts the cause of cycling in general, when cyclists behave less well on the roads than motorists. Shame

JesseD

It gets my goat as well.

A couple of weeks ago I saw a cyclists on a Pinarello with deep section carbon wheels and the full lycra get-up mount the pavement at about 20 mph to avoid stopping at a red light.

It's idiots like this who give cyclists a bad name.

woodford2barbican

JesseD wrote:

It gets my goat as well.

A couple of weeks ago I saw a cyclists on a Pinarello with deep section carbon wheels and the full lycra get-up mount the pavement at about 20 mph to avoid stopping at a red light.

It's idiots like this who give cyclists a bad name.

True, but it is idiots like this who in increasing their chances of leaving the gene pool decrease the probability that sensible people (me!) meet a sticky end.

Anonymous

I always stop at red lights, but say if I am going 15+mph up to a traffic light and am about 2 meters from it and it is on amber then I'll keep going, if I am say 5 meters away when it is on amber then I will stop.

CrookedCucumber

willhub wrote:

I always stop at red lights, but say if I am going 15+mph up to a traffic light and am about 2 meters from it and it is on amber then I'll keep going, if I am say 5 meters away when it is on amber then I will stop.

Quite so. I am very firmly of the opinion that cyclists should stop at lights in the same circumstances that a car driver would be expected to stop.

In my view, too many cyclists want to have their cake and eat it. That is, they want to be treated like first-class road users when it comes to, say, taking up a whole lane; but they want to be given an exception when it comes to, say, stopping at lights or cycling on pavements.

We can't be expected to be treated as fully-fledged road users if we don't also accept the restrictions and responsibilities of being a fully-fledged road user. But I imagine I am preaching to the choir here.

JonBurns

Amen brother!

NWLondoner

Whenever i am overtaking another cyclist (yes it does happen sometimes) i make sure the traffic is clear behind me and move out long before i actually go along side them. I then give plenty of room and then slip in front once i have can maintain my speed and distance away from them.

TBH i hate it when i have another cyclist tailgating me. I wish they would just attack and get past ASAP.

CrookedCucumber

NWLondoner wrote:

TBH i hate it when i have another cyclist tailgating me. I wish they would just attack and get past ASAP.

Yeah. You have to wonder why, sometimes, with the entire road to play with, somebody will insist on cycling on your back wheel.

On the other hand, it takes a _lot_ more energy to overtake and pull away than it does to hang back. So I can sort-of see how this situation develops.

Eat My Dust

NWLondoner wrote:

.

TBH i hate it when i have another cyclist tailgating me. I wish they would just attack and get past ASAP.

TBH I never really have anybody tailgating me as I'm usually going too fast for most riders but this was in really heavy traffic and the guy was risking his life (and mines more to the point)

Agent57

NWLondoner wrote:

TBH i hate it when i have another cyclist tailgating me. I wish they would just attack and get past ASAP.

Hehe, yeah - I posted about this in the commuting section yesterday; I passed some guy on my way in to work yesterday - we were both going pretty quickly, but I was going a bit faster. Then I heard his gear change as he shifted up to latch on to my back wheel. He was on a road bike with SPDs and I was on my MTB with knobbly tyres and trainers (road bike's in the shop), so I didn't think it was worth trying to drop him. Still, he didn't even say "thanks" when we went in different directions after a mile or so, and that annoyed me!

CrookedCucumber

If I'm behind somebody, I try to leave enough space so that he or she doesn't feel I'm trying to get a free ride. That's easy enough on the open road, but not so easy around town, where we have traffic lights and whatnots to make everybody bunch up.

I wonder what people think is an acceptable space to leave behind the guy in front?

Agent57

In my case, it was on a cycle path, so no traffic getting in the way or lights slowing us down. If I can't be bothered passing someone, I'd probably sit at least a couple of bike lengths back - if nothing else, because it's a shared use path, and one never knows then the guy in front might have to haul on suddenly for an errant dog or pedestrian that crosses the line. It's rare that I am in that situation on my ride in to work or home though because I'm normally going faster than anyone else. Not because I'm fast myself, but because everyone else is really slow!

Anonymous

The other day I was going home and from this village I was behind a guy on a racing bike for about 8 miles, he had all the gear on I was just in normal clothes with me rucksack on, I wonder what he was thinking, wonder if I was annoying him as I was behind him the whole time, I did not want to slow down just so he could pull away, was about 19-20mph most of the way, I knew if I made a go of it and tried to overtake him I would just blow up shortly after and he would end up overtaking me again.

CrookedCucumber

willhub wrote:

The other day I was going home and from this village I was behind a guy on a racing bike for about 8 miles, he had all the gear on I was just in normal clothes with me rucksack on, I wonder what he was thinking, wonder if I was annoying him as I was behind him the whole time, I did not want to slow down just so he could pull away, was about 19-20mph most of the way, I knew if I made a go of it and tried to overtake him I would just blow up shortly after and he would end up overtaking me again.

Yes, I find that situation tricky, too. I'm not going to try to overtake anybody if I'm already doing 20mph. I'd rather be behind somebody at 20mph that have him (or her) behind me at 20.5 mph

I try to give people plenty of room in that situation -- a hundred yards or more if conditions allow. If it irritates the person in front, I'm not sure I can do much about that.

Anonymous

What I did is kept slowing down like 2 mph to make some space but then I started to catch up as he was going faster than I would normally be going in places, but one part he was doing like 20mph where I usually do about 24-25mph as the wind is pushing me so I started to close in on him then and it was abit annoying for me when I had to slow down, I knew he would overtake me again as after that stretch there would be a part where he would be goind faster.

NWLondoner

If i see a cyclist ahead of me and i think i can pass them further down the road i will slow down slightly so i don't catch up with them. I will then see a point that i think i can attack and pass them safely, and i will then speed up and pass them.
I usually find traffic lights the best place to attack. They have usually stopped or slowed down so i can just sail past them at 15/20 mph


I did that the other week along the Chelsea Embankment 8) I almost forgot that the road suddenly went downhill on a bend right after the lights :shock:

JesseD

NWLondoner wrote:

If i see a cyclist ahead of me and i think i can pass them further down the road i will slow down slightly so i don't catch up with them. I will then see a point that i think i can attack and pass them safely, and i will then speed up and pass them.
I usually find traffic lights the best place to attack. They have usually stopped or slowed down so i can just sail past them at 15/20 mph


I did that the other week along the Chelsea Embankment 8) I almost forgot that the road suddenly went downhill on a bend right after the lights :shock:

Who said us cyclists are comptative

I get this alot on the Bristol-Bath cycle path, not that I am fast just a little bit faster than most of the commuters. I think the most I have had tailgating me is about 4, it must have looked quite strange to everyone else, me in full gimp getup (lycra and all) and 4 others on hybrids all with rucksacks on hammering it behind me, like some commuter time trial team. :shock:

clanton

CrookedCucumber wrote:

willhub wrote:

I always stop at red lights, but say if I am going 15+mph up to a traffic light and am about 2 meters from it and it is on amber then I'll keep going, if I am say 5 meters away when it is on amber then I will stop.

Quite so. I am very firmly of the opinion that cyclists should stop at lights in the same circumstances that a car driver would be expected to stop.

In my view, too many cyclists want to have their cake and eat it. That is, they want to be treated like first-class road users when it comes to, say, taking up a whole lane; but they want to be given an exception when it comes to, say, stopping at lights or cycling on pavements.

We can't be expected to be treated as fully-fledged road users if we don't also accept the restrictions and responsibilities of being a fully-fledged road user. But I imagine I am preaching to the choir here.

Well said

spen666

Eat My Dust wrote:

I was commuting in this morning overtaking heavy but slow moving traffic (Watford Road, Wembley) there was heavy moving traffic coming the other way as well. I was doing about 12 mph when a car started to edge out of a driveway. So, I pull out a bit as was pretty sure he hadn't seen me when a guy on a white Cube road bike flashes past me at easily over 20 mph missing me by probably less than an inch. If we had collided at least one of us would have found ourselves under the wheels of a car. So if you're the guy on the white Cube wearing baggies and carrying a rucksack, a headsup that you're going to pass next time might save both our lives.

PS you won't survive long overtaking heavy traffic at those speeds.

So do I understand you correctly, you change the line you are riding by moving out into the road further ( to avoid a car) and you are blaming the rider whose path you almost move into for the fact he is near you?

Surely if you had not had to change line suddenly he would have passed you with no problems.

I'm not sure what he has done wrong on this account

Eat My Dust

spen666 wrote:

So do I understand you correctly, you change the line you are riding by moving out into the road further ( to avoid a car) and you are blaming the rider whose path you almost move into for the fact he is near you?

Surely if you had not had to change line suddenly he would have passed you with no problems.

I'm not sure what he has done wrong on this account

That's because you're a bit of a c_ck Spen.

Who mentioned changing line suddenly? I said "I pulled out a bit" as you would to avoid a pothole etc. and when was it "his" path. I'm pretty sure if he had ran into the back of me it would have been his fault in the eyes of the law, but I'm sure you'll come back with some wa_ky comment.

Was it you riding the white Cube perhaps?

bigjim

Is this the boasting forum them?

Jim

meanwhile

Eat My Dust wrote:

spen666 wrote:

So do I understand you correctly, you change the line you are riding by moving out into the road further ( to avoid a car) and you are blaming the rider whose path you almost move into for the fact he is near you?

Surely if you had not had to change line suddenly he would have passed you with no problems.

I'm not sure what he has done wrong on this account

That's because you're a bit of a c_ck Spen.

Goodness!

Who mentioned changing line suddenly?

You did.

I said "I pulled out a bit" as you would to avoid a pothole etc.

So you pulled out. Enough so that you believe it would have made a difference to your odds of being hit by a reversing car (a distance a sensible person would probably put at at least two or three feet) but beneath some magic distance that you believe is required to have to look behind or brake instead.

You've learned a valuable lesson cheaply, I'd say. Several, if you also learn not to judge other cyclists by whether they are wearing lycra. (It's a form of transportation, not a fetish activity. Well, I suppose it could be both.)

and when was it "his" path. I'm pretty sure if he had ran into the back of me it would have been his fault in the eyes of the law, but I'm sure you'll come back with some wa_ky comment.

Possibly that you're a silly unt and a bit of rap rider?

biondino

So, I don't think I've got a handle on tailgating on the road. I tend to have a fairly well defined cruising speed; if I am behind a rider who is going a couple of mph faster (whether I've caught him at the lights or he's overtaken me), then my cruising speed is increased by a similar amount if I draft him. But this is bad manners? It makes no difference to him, speed wise - maybe he feels less comfortable riding with someone else a yard behind him for safety reasons? But I don't want to have to slow down when I'm in my zone - does this make me rude?

If I come up to a guy who's basically going my pace - i.e. when I'm behind him I'm not putting in much effort thanks to the draft - I'll overtake after a while and let him draft me, if he wants to. It seems so logical for cyclists to help each other take some effort out of the ride, when it requires zero personal sacrifice, but maybe I'm just clueless? Answers much appreciated.

Eat My Dust

Going back to OP, if I had described the same incident but with a car overtaking me that closely and at the same speed would there still be people posting that I was in the wrong? I doubt it very much.

jedster

EMD,

I'm with you here in that it sounds like the rider behind you did not give you enough room to manouvre. Perhaps (?) in this case you should have shoulder checked but it's easy to imagine situations when shoulder checking just isn't an option - you simply have to move too quickly. That's why all road users (including cyclists) need to allow cyclists ahead some wiggle room.

I made a mistake like the one the cube rider made once. My evasive action (to avoid a cyclist pulling out early - without shoulder checking - to overtake a parked car) took me into the side of a cab that was overtaking me with little room.

I won't make that mistake again.

(BTW, I'd argue that all three of us were at fault. The fact I could lay some of the blame on the other two didn't help me heal quicker or pay for my repairs).

J

Eat My Dust

TBH even if I hadn't pulled out IMO ther wasn't enough room for the overtake (safely). As I said in the OP this was overtaking heavy traffic with heavy oncoming traffic. As I said in the OP as well even some kind of "passing on you're right" would have been appreciated.

pneumatic

I am a bit confused by all this talk of "tailgating".

I thought the whole point of efficient road riding was to work in groups to save energy and increase overall speed. In an ideal peloton, of course, everybody takes a turn at the front, but is it that much of a heinous crime to catch a lift off someone who is a bit fitter than you?

I would be quite flattered to have four people on my back wheel and only annoyed if I thought they were fit enough to take a turn.

If it does bother you, though, may I recommend a technique used by a "mate" of mine when he thinks you have been too long on his wheel and should be doing a bit of work:

1. grumble
2. fart so powerfully that there is a risk of follow-through
3. clear each nostril in turn over the shoulder

I have now learned to make my move at stage 1

Come to think of it, that's pretty much what he does in the pub, too, when he thinks it's your round!

Eat My Dust

If I had known he was there I wouldn't have minded (as much). I wasn't complaining about him being behind me. It was the manner that he passed in that annoyed me.

blorg

Eat My Dust, I'm afraid I'd have to agree here, you don't sound entirely blameless if you pulled out without signalling or looking behind you. The cyclist passing should have seen the obstacle and anticipated your action but there are two of you in it.

I had a similar experience recently as the passing cyclist. There is this junction with a right hand turn on my commute, so coming into it there is (from left) the straight through cycle lane, a straight on lane, and a turn right lane. There's a advanced stop line with a cycle box at the junction. If turning right, you are meant to be in lane.

So there is a cyclist doddering through the junction in the cycle lane. He's well past the line and no signs of doing anything but going straight. I'm overtaking in the straight on lane. He is doddering along while I'm going substantially faster, 35-40km/h or whatever. Giving him plenty of room, at least three feet, I'm near the middle of the traffic lane.

Suddenly, without looking and with no hand signals or any other warning, he starts to turn right across my path. This was just as I was passing his rear wheel. I yelled at him "FUCK NO" while swerving right and he sort of doddered back into his lane. I honestly thought he was just a bit of a wobbler and wasn't turning right after all, but it turns out he was. I mentioned that he might look and use hand signals, and he said he was "about to." He yelled at me that I should have "known" that he was about to turn right despite no indication of this on his part. Truth is, if I was a car he would have been splat but he probably did it as he didn't HEAR any car behind him, so decides to swerve out across two traffic lanes to make his right turn. And it's all my fault because I should have "known" he was going to suddenly swerve out of the cycle lane!

On a more similar note to yours I swerved to avoid a dead rat on the road the other day just as a car overtook, and it almost clipped me. It should probably have been giving me a bit more room but I don't hold myself blameless in that situation either: I didn't look or signal. There is a tendency for cyclists to consider themselves always right but I took that as a lesson!