Thoughts on handlebar height...
Comments
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andrewgturnbull wrote:leguape wrote:Big saddle to bar heights is a relatively new phenomenon, comes from the 80s aero craze as far as I can tell.
Hi there.
That's not a craze, that's progress... The 80s was a long time ago!
Cheers, Andy
I say craze in the sense that so much was being experimented with - some of it stuck and that's progress, a fair amount of it was utter gibber as far as I can tell.
The notion that you need a big drop from saddle to bar to get a more efficient position is not automatically true, for examples see the work of Obree, G on the subject.0 -
leguape wrote:andrewgturnbull wrote:leguape wrote:Big saddle to bar heights is a relatively new phenomenon, comes from the 80s aero craze as far as I can tell.
Hi there.
That's not a craze, that's progress... The 80s was a long time ago!
Cheers, Andy
I say craze in the sense that so much was being experimented with - some of it stuck and that's progress, a fair amount of it was utter gibber as far as I can tell.
The notion that you need a big drop from saddle to bar to get a more efficient position is not automatically true, for examples see the work of Obree, G on the subject.
Hi again.
I'm not sure what you mean...
I just happen to have a link:
http://www.andyturnbull.co.uk/2007/Corrieri2007.html
Which co-incidentally has a piccy of Graeme's position on one side and mine on the other. It looks like his front end is even lower than mine... He does advocate sitting further back though and adopting a more stretched out position. As a triathlete I prefer a steeper seat angle to bring me further forward.
As for progress, you are right - I subsribe to the 100th idiot theory!
Cheers, Andy0 -
That's Obree riding in a position within the current restrictions which are, if anything, a backward step on the route of progress. I was thinking more of his positioned used in his prime (before the UCI to umbrage).
I think that it's important to separate out the benefits of the drop for a TT position where the tops are going to be lower to allow for the arm position. My understanding is that it is going to be a slightly elongated variation on where you'd expect a rider to be on the drops. If you move the hands back so the elbow is almost a right angle you have the position you'd want on the drops of a traditional bar.
So taking that example pic of Obree I'd expect him to ride a road bike (rather than TT one) with a slightly longer headtube and perhaps a few more spacers to give him a really nice position on the drops - that means a smaller drop from saddle to bar.0 -
I'm glad you cleared that up, I was worried for a while that you were just speculating...0
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Yeah but it shows you read the thread - you'll be shaving your legs next.
it's a hard life if you don't weaken.0 -
I'll echo Neeb's experience:
- a bike fit recommended only 2.5cm drop from saddle to bars (but I'm 53 and definitely inflexible).
- I definitely use the drops more than before
Funnily enough, I've recently found myself resting my hands around the top and front of the hoods (rather than hooking fingers around the hoods). This seems to give me a comfortable, stretched position with a good hip and back angle for better power.
I think a lot of this is to do with seat tube angle. I thought the classic was 73 degrees but it is pretty hard to find anything less than 74 now. This is probably fine for the pros but just not right for most riders0 -
Well, I'm not so sure now...
I just flipped the stem back again to the horizontal position as an experiment, so the drop is now 7cm instead of almost 5cm. Not quite as much as it was before (I've changed a few other things) but almost.
And yes, it's definitely faster. Unless I had a really flukey ride for some other reason, it's made me about 0.75 mph faster over a regular 26mile run. And it still feels comfortable and the bike handling is still spot on. I do use the drops slightly less, but not greatly so. Maybe 1cm makes all the difference (it was 8cm before) or maybe it's the different bars I have (shallower drop) or maybe my posture has improved with more cycling. Could the higher setting have improved my posture so that I'm now able to carry that over to the lower setting? Anyway, 7cm now feels great, although I haven't tried it on a long run yet. That'll be the decider...0 -
I've only been riding a road bike for a couple of years and I don't do club runs or ride competitively so all this is highly speculative ....
I guess I ride with a 4cm drop (will check tonight) and end up riding on the drops about 1/3 of the time. As well as the normal position on the hoods, I also use a position where I wrap my fingers around the top of the levers and lay my forearms along the bar tops (i.e. getting lower than in the normal hood position but not as low as on the drops). MAybe use that 1/3 of the time as well.
Thoughts:
I guess if you ride solo most of the time the aerodynamics are more important? If you ride in a group a lot then you could happily use a higher position. Obviously TT is extreme end but as I ride solo I probably need to be able to use the drops more?
If you find the hoods give a much more comfortable hand position then you might lower the bars and only use the drops in more extreme situations?
Surely flat bars with bar ends aren't a good substiute for drops (even if you dont use the drops) - you can break and change gear from hoods but not from bar ends?
Am I using the drops too much? I always use them descending and tend to use them on the flat unless I have a tail wind.
Cheers,
J0 -
I've given up with the experimenting and speculating and booked myself in for a fitting with Hewitt Cycles! All I know is that I'm bloody uncomfortable after anything over 50 miles (not so much during the ride but after) and I'm pretty damn sure the frame I has is just totally unsuitable.0
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people are getting too caught in up in drops vs. hoods on this thread
the issue is to get comfortable and have good control of the bike, and then be as aero as possible. that can all be done on the hoods for most riding. As long as the drops are not hugely uncomfortable for the few (but important) times when you really need them, what's the big deal?
I don't ride around all the time0 -
Graham G wrote:I've given up with the experimenting and speculating and booked myself in for a fitting with Hewitt Cycles! All I know is that I'm bloody uncomfortable after anything over 50 miles (not so much during the ride but after) and I'm pretty damn sure the frame I has is just totally unsuitable.
If you have a frame that even comes close to fitting you I can't see your reasoning that it
is "totally unsuitable". I'm not saying don't get a fitting, it may help get you in a bit better
position in which to be more comfortable. And I'm sure that the fitters will tell you that
you need a new frame(one of theirs, of course). Don't take this wrong but maybe, just maybe, your "uncomfortable" level is a bit less than other peoples. After 50 or so miles
most people are starting to "fidget" around a bit on the saddle and bars. After a 100
miler most people are really ready to get off that bike and call it a day. It's not a lounge
chair or a feather bed.
Dennis Noward0 -
Well i'm almost embarrassed to admit that the drop bars on my Trek 1.0 are higher than the saddle :oops:
If i wanted the saddle higher and the bars lower i would need longer arms and legs !!!
Anyway it is comfortable to ride and great fun and it suits me perfectly.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/topdude/2459315932/sizes/l/He is not the messiah, he is a very naughty boy !!0 -
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Or maybe to be more flexible. At the end of the day, lower bars are never likely to be more comfortable, just more aero. With bars that high you'll be sitting up creating lots of drag even when in the drops, though if it's the position you need to be comfortable then you shouldn't go lower unless you feel the need to go faster.topdude wrote:If i wanted the saddle higher and the bars lower i would need longer arms and legs !!!0 -
That is quite extreme for a road bike...
You've got the potential to lower it if you take out the spacers and flip the stem though. Are you sure we can't persuade you?
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