Power Results:

azzerb

Today at the gym i was curios to what the "power test" button did on the bike, so i pressed it and went along with it (I'd already done my own power test on Wednesday, so just wanted to see what this was about).

The machine sets you off at a warmup for what it says is 3minutes, within 50 seconds left of the warm up it tells you to spin the pedals as fast as you can (resistance doesn't get easier to the quicker you pedal, so quite hard), then you get 20 seconds recovery before the test begins.

First time round i did this, i thought it would be like a ramp test, and i was fairly tired already from the 30 seconds all out effort, so i thought tootle this along, 1 minute later, it was telling me the test was over! The results were pretty poor as i hadn't tried expecting it to ramp up the dificulty. Though on the results it said that for a male my age and weight, the results were average.

So i thought, well if it's average when i'm not pushing myself really hard, I'll try again. This time the results were over double the previous results, yet apparently, it was still average.

Basically, the question of this post is: What would you say an average power (peak, peak w/kg, average and average p/kg) would be over a minute duration for an 18y.o male who weighed in at 70kg today, with a hard effort 20 seconds before hand?

andrewgturnbull

From the Allen/Coggan book:

azzerb

Ah thanks a lot That's settled my mind a bit then thanks. More training is needed on my FTP for sure, even though i don't really touch anything sub 5mins in training. :?

samoff

In the table, what does the FT column represent?
I generally do a 15min ride on the gym bike and record my average power for the period.

Managed to get it up from 170 to 240W in the last year (When I reach a certain target then I can go up to the next level)

This excitingly puts me on the verge of 'Good' although, to be honest, I've never really thought of them as meaningful figures in the real world.

Alex_Simmons/RST

samoff wrote:

In the table, what does the FT column represent?
I generally do a 15min ride on the gym bike and record my average power for the period.

FTP is the highest power that a rider can maintain is a quasi-steady state without fatiguing for approximately one-hour.

Akin to the power a rider can sustain in a one hour long Time Trial.

15 min is too short to equate to the FT column. FT would be significantly less than your 15 min power. Say 5%-15% less depending on lots of things.

pjm-84

Sugar..... Untrained.

Need to lose 50kg or double my power. Having snapped 5 frames, 3 chains , 1 stem I think I will try the former!

Alex_Simmons/RST

pjm-84 wrote:

Sugar..... Untrained.

Need to lose 50kg or double my power. Having snapped 5 frames, 3 chains , 1 stem I think I will try the former!

and / or check the accuracy of the device measuring the power output.

Kléber

Yes, a machine in a gym is going to give joke results!

Alex_Simmons/RST

it should be noted that the table referred to in the earlier post, relates to male riders.there is another table specifically for women. It can be found on the cycling peaks Website under the power training section

bahzob

Kléber wrote:

Yes, a machine in a gym is going to give joke results!

Not necessarily. I have a Lifecycle (exercise bike) and a Powertap. The watts on the Lifecycle are pretty close to those on Powertap/turbo (matching watts on each and using HR/RPE as controls).

pjm-84

I have hit 1096 watts on my turbo trainer but run out of leg speed at 93kph on a 53x11. I weigh 100kgs so should be hitting .... yikes....

Alex_Simmons/RST

pjm-84 wrote:

I have hit 1096 watts on my turbo trainer but run out of leg speed at 93kph on a 53x11. I weigh 100kgs so should be hitting .... yikes....

scherrit

I find it pretty hard to hit big power numbers on most trainers (for say 5-10s duration), because they are missing that inertial load, i.e. the work you do against your body weight to get the bike and yourself up to speed. You're almost certain to see bigger numbers on the road, I'd have thougfht for the short duration efforts!
S.

Alex_Simmons/RST

scherrit wrote:

I find it pretty hard to hit big power numbers on most trainers (for say 5-10s duration), because they are missing that inertial load, i.e. the work you do against your body weight to get the bike and yourself up to speed. You're almost certain to see bigger numbers on the road, I'd have thougfht for the short duration efforts!
S.

correct, unless of course you have a trainer with a higher inertial load. Something like I'm in the process of building at the moment:
http://alex-cycle.blogspot.com/2008/02/ ... oject.html

scherrit

Hey, I like the look of that...... withthe right gearing and flywheel, you could do a standing start even!!! Did you think about a type of resistance that is a big closer to wind resistance in speed dependancy (eg fan/fluid)? I know magnets are tempingly straight forward, but they'll offer a pretty linear ramp rate of resistance. Just wondered if dumping the heat is an issue.... I guess not with such big lumps of metal, but my (tiny) mag unit obviously doesn't like big 20-30s efforts!!!!
with all the rain we get here in london, I'm tempted top look at a similar project!
S.

bahzob

The Kurt Kintetic turbo claims to simulate (flat) road speed/power curve

http://www.kurtkinetic.com/powercurve.php

I've got one and while you cant do standing starts it does seem to match gear/effort pretty well when compared to riding outdoors.

Alex_Simmons/RST

scherrit wrote:

Hey, I like the look of that...... withthe right gearing and flywheel, you could do a standing start even!!! Did you think about a type of resistance that is a big closer to wind resistance in speed dependancy (eg fan/fluid)? I know magnets are tempingly straight forward, but they'll offer a pretty linear ramp rate of resistance. Just wondered if dumping the heat is an issue.... I guess not with such big lumps of metal, but my (tiny) mag unit obviously doesn't like big 20-30s efforts!!!!
with all the rain we get here in london, I'm tempted top look at a similar project!
S.

it is built with standing start capability in mind.

The flywheel will also have fan blades attached to provide wind resistance, there is a seven speed gearbox, and I will toy with Eddy current braking as a means to provide finely controlled resistance for say map tests. I did look into electronically controlled hysteresis braking but it was a little too expensive.

Alex_Simmons/RST

bahzob wrote:

The Kurt Kintetic turbo claims to simulate (flat) road speed/power curve

http://www.kurtkinetic.com/powercurve.php

I've got one and while you cant do standing starts it does seem to match gear/effort pretty well when compared to riding outdoors.

the KK is an excellent trainer

pedylan

So here we have another kit buying thread.

It was developing nicely into quite a good factual training thread til we strated dealing with the pleasure of investing in bikes and kit as opposed to the pain of training.

A question - how many of us can sustain 300watts for 5 mins to scrape us into the bottom of the good category? This assumes a weight of 70kg of course.

I've got the book referred to above and I've been measuring my Etape fitness programme against these figures (amongs other measures). when I got my Tacx fliow 18 months ago I could just about average 180w for 1 hr. Now I'm at 235 with a target of 240 befor the Etape.

I haven't tried a 5 minute sustained burst at 315 which would get me to good but I will. How many "good" cyclists are there out there?

andrewgturnbull

Hi there.

Sounds like you need to read _the_ thread on this subject

http://www.cyclingforums.com.au/t-314849-15-1.html

Cheers, Andy

ps I did actually read all of this once... It took me two weeks.

Toks

pedylan wrote:

A question - how many of us can sustain 300watts for 5 mins to scrape us into the bottom of the good category? This assumes a weight of 70kg of course.

I'd expect quite a few in that weight category and above, especially those that have been competitive in RR's, TT's and sportivs for a few years.

Alex_Simmons/RST

pedylan wrote:

So here we have another kit buying thread.

pedylan wrote:

A question - how many of us can sustain 300watts for 5 mins to scrape us into the bottom of the good category? This assumes a weight of 70kg of course.

I can get well into that category (at that power to weight ratio) - well I could that is - and I have no reason to doubt I will again.

It is not uncommon in well trained cyclists.

pedylan wrote:

I've got the book referred to above and I've been measuring my Etape fitness programme against these figures (amongs other measures). when I got my Tacx fliow 18 months ago I could just about average 180w for 1 hr. Now I'm at 235 with a target of 240 befor the Etape.

Nice progress. With good training you'll be amazed how far you can go.

xover_runner

Alex - on the subject of getting more power on the road than the turbo, something I have seen this week. I have had a Powertap since Feb and had estimated my FTP from 20' efforts on the turbo. I had my FTP set at 230 Watts following a 242 W 20' TT on the turbo (taking 5% off as per Coggan's book).

Yesterday did the first Tuesday night TT of the season and averaged 274 Watts for 24 mins. That would infer FTP of about 260 Watts. which is fine but i can't imagine doing my 2 X 20s on the turbo 30 Watts higher than I was doing last week, that sounds way too hard.

Is it reasonable to have 2 FTPs - indoor and outdoor or should I just be prepared to die on the turbo this Thurday when I do my next 2 X 20?

liversedge

pedylan wrote:

... when I got my Tacx fliow 18 months ago I could just about average 180w for 1 hr. Now I'm at 235 with a target of 240 befor the Etape.

Good going!! And Good luck with Etape!!

Without wishing to p!ss in your cornflakes I moved from a Flow to a Computrainer (I also use a powertap on the road) and the Flow is, erm, a little flattering. So when comparing with Coogan's table don't get too excited. But if you are using it to monitor your own (excellent) progress that doesn't matter anyway.

If it helps I did Etape last year and *averaged* 180w for the entire ride and made it in 10 hours I weighed 75kg on the day.

Alex_Simmons/RST

xover_runner wrote:

Alex - on the subject of getting more power on the road than the turbo, something I have seen this week. I have had a Powertap since Feb and had estimated my FTP from 20' efforts on the turbo. I had my FTP set at 230 Watts following a 242 W 20' TT on the turbo (taking 5% off as per Coggan's book).

Yesterday did the first Tuesday night TT of the season and averaged 274 Watts for 24 mins. That would infer FTP of about 260 Watts. which is fine but i can't imagine doing my 2 X 20s on the turbo 30 Watts higher than I was doing last week, that sounds way too hard.

Is it reasonable to have 2 FTPs - indoor and outdoor or should I just be prepared to die on the turbo this Thurday when I do my next 2 X 20?

your experience is not uncommon. You can only do what you can do on the trainer. All I can suggest is that you work towards reducing the gap by improving your trainer power through a number of means. These include:
-- making sure you have adequate cooling while riding the trainer (read a bloody big fan)
-- seeing if it is possible to increase the inertial load of your trainer (that is increase the size/weight of your flywheel).
-- keep plugging away until the gap reduces
-- some trainers are just not great for this type of work

while I think it is reasonable when riding on your trainer to have a different expectation of the power that you can maintain for any given interval or work out, I would not suggest. It is useful or practical to try and manage as if you had two different FTPs. your FTP is what it is.

As for 95% of your best 20 minute power = FTP, while that will get you in the ball park, it is not actually a method that Dr Coggan would recommend (it is something that Hunter Allen suggests). That method may over or under report your FTP, depending on the influence of your anaerobic work capacity during the test effort. I think it would be better to express it as 95% plus or minus say 3% and then to validate using another method.

xover_runner

Alex - thanks for the advice. I have a Tack Flow and no fan!!. I have noticed the last few weeks it has been uncomfortably hot on the turbo, all I can do is open a small window. I will either move the turbo on the patio or do hard sessions outside on the road. I have a nice quite, gently, rolling bypass road near me which I think will be OK for constant power efforts.
Anyhow got my first 25TT in 3 weeks so that will be the true FTP sorted.

cheers

Steve

Alex_Simmons/RST

get a big, powerful fan, that will really, really help! don't go for those ones you see in the department stores, get an industrial grade job