Basso to Liquigas!
Comments
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just of out curiosity, Basso used to brag of his single mindedness and how he only ever trained alone...how many of you still think that is the cool way to be a top cyclist? Rocky type training alone... loner images to inspire.
Basso is a disgrace for not admitting his doping...as for not trying to lose everyone their jobs with some lousy plea bargain that all of us on the forum would be chatting about for months on end, I agree with Basso. 2 years of a ban is good. He should be allowed back after that. He will be 31 when he restarts ..with no competition in 2 years, which is what he deserves...aging and with a serious lack of racing in his legs...and a damaged reputation. He's paid IMO0 -
Liquigas have quit the AICGP according to Eurosportrespectez le bitumen0
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Basso did the right thing for himself: stay stumm and ride out the storm. But for clean cycling, for exposing Fuentes, for helping the health of riders and more, he didn't do the right thing.
I'd like to know what ASO think about Liquigas now...0 -
Well valv.piti has obviously found a new preparatore so don't rule Basso out of contention just yet.Dan0
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Liquigas president Paolo Dal Lago said that having served his time, Basso deserves a new opportunity to resurect his career.
"Ivan Basso has served his suspension with dignity and has maintained a responsible, calm attitude characterised by the seriousness which has won over the public and his fellow professionals," he said.
'served his suspension with dignity' hmmm !
Well he didn't do the too-many-Jack-Daniels/Phantom-Twin/My-dog-(Birillo
)-ate-it protestations and denails and appeals to every court in the land
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(sorry Ivan, the fact you tried to is just as 100% guilty as if you did in my view)
So is not taking it to appeal after appeal and going through messy court cases like some others 'a responsible, calm attitude' ?
It might not drag the sport into disrepute, but I can't see that it 'has won over the public', although perhaps it has 'his fellow professionals' because he hasn't spat in the soup...0 -
Liquigas are now unwelcome at the Frankfurt GP on 1 May, race organisers say they are committed to fighting doping and Liquigas isn't.0
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Let's be honest Liquigas are an Italian team ,sponsored by an Italian brand (it's the italian branding for what we know as Calor or Primagaz). They're ultimately only interested in getting their name on the Giro D'Italia because that's their prime market. If they were interested in elsewhere it would have been Primagaz, the most widely recognisable brand of the parent company. So long as that RCS invite comes in, they'll be as happy as a monkey with a banana.0
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It's like Saunier Duval being kicked out of the AIGCP for signing David Millar. Why make such an example out of a rider who never kicked up a fuss? I'm not condoning what he did but the way he kept a low profile after confessing is not something to be scoffed at and is something Messrs Landis and Kacheshkin should observe0
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True but with a small banana. If ASO say no, how many riders want to join the team? No Tour de France but also no L-B-L, no Paris-Roubaix and more. Many of the big names on the team risk seeing their targetted events vanish if ASO take a dislike to Liquigas's ethics...leguape wrote:So long as that RCS invite comes in, they'll be as happy as a monkey with a banana.0 -
How could ASO take a dislike? Basso served his ban of two years. I doubt the added two-year suspension from the Pro Tour is of any concern to them.
As the Tour team selections this year have shown, as long as you don't test positive after winning two stages and being touted as the paramount of human accomplishment and perseverance during a week by their paper, ASO really have no problem with doping.0 -
They tried to block Virenque after his return from a ban. They blocked Di Luca too as he was under investigation. They're blocking Astana. They barred anyone linked to Puerto. Frankly I'm amazed Rabo is there but Liquigas have openly broken the Ethical Agreement signed by teams.0
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Kléber wrote:They tried to block Virenque after his return from a ban. They blocked Di Luca too as he was under investigation. They're blocking Astana. They barred anyone linked to Puerto. Frankly I'm amazed Rabo is there but Liquigas have openly broken the Ethical Agreement signed by teams.
Is the Ethical Agreement a rule? No, it's not. It's an agreement. Lets rather work in a framework of formal rules rather than stupid argreements. Basso has done his time, Liquigas or anyone else should be able to sign him without fear.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
What about spitting in the soup in reverse - riders, DS's and some race organisers like you for not spitting in the soup, but perhaps spectators, the media and some other race organizers don't. Just as he has served his ban and should be able to sign a contract and race again, it doesn't mean that everyone has to like him, or report well of him or invite him to their races. In the open ended world of gentleman's agreements, codes of ethics, the pro tour being meaningless and the UCI lacking any ability to face up to things and manage them properly this sort of thing is likely to keep on cropping up.
Pro cycling seems a bit ruderless just now.0 -
I would think that liquigas have had great value for money already. They must be delighted with all of the publicity for which they have as yet paid nothing. They can sign him, and if the ASO won't let them do the Tour they can pay up his contract with loads more publicity AND take the moral high ground big time in Italy. Good, no great bit of business.
As regards the ASO's anti doping stance (or lack thereof) in the past, firstly they have always been far far better than the self serving cowards at the uci, and secondly, times have changed, and it is now in their commercial interests to be seen to be vigorously anti-doping, which is a hell of a lot better than things were 5 years ago.Dan0 -
Liquigas haven't got much publicity. Apart from a few cycling forums and specialised websites, plus a paragraph or two in the sports press. You could buy the same coverage for £5k.
Plus now they've linked their name to "dirty" behaviour. How can an Italian housewife now be sure that the bloke delivering a gas cannister to her home isn't a murderer on parole?
I exaggerate but you get the point. Can you trust them to bill you the honest amount, after all they employed the thirsty Di Luca last year?
Liquigas are saying "give us any publicity, we don't care". Not ideal for a consumer brand. Of course, if Ivan wins the Giro, it'll be great publicity but it's not without risk.0 -
Haven't had much here. Plenty in Italy, which is where they want it, and plenty more to come.Dan0
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Do you trust any energy company?
Why they could employ lance, the cleanest most tested athlete in the whole world ever, and I still wouldn't trust them with my bill.Dan0 -
I believe riders at pro tour level riders should sign contracts forbidding them from bringing Basso type riders to formal training camps, keeping the dopers from organised training as the training involved at pro tour level bunch training will simply keep the doper on the level before his ban.0
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Dave_1 wrote:I believe riders at pro tour level riders should sign contracts forbidding them from birning Basso type rider to formal training camps, keeping the dopers from organised training as the training involved at pro tour level bunsh training will simply keep the doper on the level before his ban.
disagree. I reckon the strongest Rasmussen has ever been would have been in his free to dope meself silly training camp in the dolomites/alps the weeks before last years tour.
IF he stays off the tested list, which one can do, by "retiring" then coming back on 6 months before re-entering competition, he will have 18 months of doped up strength training.
Remember, Riis had to ride off the front on his own. Armstrong had to out timetrial his competitiors. Ultimately, the best athletes, are less compromised by having no formal peloton, nor training bunch, if they dope themselves silly. The doping of the 90's pre-hematcrit, was at such a high level, they can train at near that level without burnout. With the aid of a comprehensive, no restriction doping plan.0 -
forearms Van Petegem wrote:Dave_1 wrote:I believe riders at pro tour level riders should sign contracts forbidding them from birning Basso type rider to formal training camps, keeping the dopers from organised training as the training involved at pro tour level bunsh training will simply keep the doper on the level before his ban.
disagree. I reckon the strongest Rasmussen has ever been would have been in his free to dope meself silly training camp in the dolomites/alps the weeks before last years tour.
IF he stays off the tested list, which one can do, by "retiring" then coming back on 6 months before re-entering competition, he will have 18 months of doped up strength training.
Remember, Riis had to ride off the front on his own. Armstrong had to out timetrial his competitiors. Ultimately, the best athletes, are less compromised by having no formal peloton, nor training bunch, if they dope themselves silly. The doping of the 90's pre-hematcrit, was at such a high level, they can train at near that level without burnout. With the aid of a comprehensive, no restriction doping plan.
But doesn't having a pop at Bettini on a 100 mile training run in the mountains give the banned rider a pretty good idea he is on course for his return? These reference points...like how you go compared to other top pros should be removed...the doper should be left to guess and number crunch and not have their training made easier by guides and markers like eleit level bunch training give...the dopers must be isolated I think, but i take on board your point too...
a bit of both? journos should report if convicted dopers are seen training with current top riders as that gives some indication of things0 -
I was disagreeing about the potential advantage. My point, if the peloton was hotter and faster in the 90's pre-crit test, then he can ride to that level in his camouflage from testers in his 18 months out.0
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forearms Van Petegem wrote:I was disagreeing about the potential advantage. My point, if the peloton was hotter and faster in the 90's pre-crit test, then he can ride to that level in his camouflage from testers in his 18 months out.
I gudss so...Basso will have climbs he can time hismelf on, scienctific analysis of his power outputs etc so he will know roughly where he is...but the doper shold be deprived of the inspiring influence of being welcomed into elite level bunch training, group training that erifies training done, be isolated...plenty riders boast of have good numbers and stats but fall far short-e.g. Tom Danielson-though he could be clean IMO..esp choosing a team that provides a second guarantee after the the WADA/UCI testing. But then again..all tope riders trainin alone and are reclusive in the build up to big races...so perhaps?0 -
Putting aside the ethical arguments I would like to see him back, as I would Vino and Basso.I have pain!0
