Should I have stopped?

Mike Willcox

On a tempo training ride this morning and winding it up nicely approaching a blind bend and I hear a large lorry speeding up behind me. I'm on the crown of the bend and the idiot comes alongside to overtake and I can see out of the corner of my eye a huge cab. Coming the other way is a large van followed by a car that sounds his horn and the bloody lorry edges closer to me so I sprint like mad to get ahead of him.

There is a loud crunching bang and then no lorry. Sod it I thought serves him right as drivers are always overtaking me on blind bends and chancing there is nothing coming the other way. Only this time there was so he got what was coming to him particularly as he put me in danger. Now I'm home I feel a bit guilty as I made the rest of my training ride a priority when as a road user involved in an accident I should really have acted as a witness.

heavymental

Oops. Yeh probably should have. Could always ring the fuzz now though and make a statement...if you could be arsd or wanted to.

Shadowduck

Hmmm... You probably should have stopped, though you might have regretted it if you had. If you're sure there's no way they'll try to blame you for the accident, you could go down the local nick and offer yourself as a witness - just say you didn't stop at the time as you were worried by the intimidating behaviour of the lorry driver.

Funnily enough I've had a similar dilemma since last night. I clipped a zombie chav* with my shoulder when he stepped from one side of the cycle lane to the other just as I passed him. I could tell from his shouted opinions on my sexuality and parentage that he wasn't knocked unconscious but I didn't bother going back to see if he was injured, on the basis it'd just be an argument or fight. I do feel slightly guilty, even though it wasn't my fault - I was moving pretty fast and 190 pounds of duck in full flight has quite a lot of inertia...

*iPod, head down and texting, totally oblivious.

davidmiller

Yes, I think you should have stopped.

Remember that whilst he was guilty of bad driving it could have been a lot worse - he could have taken you out instead. Glad you're ok.

David

pedylan

Only to gloat :twisted:

ChrisLS

...no, I think you could have ended up getting the blame...

killiekosmos

You shouldn't need to ask! You should stop and check if others need help.

If you had been involved in the accident yo'd have wanted others to stop to help you.

on the road

This is a difficult one, on the one hand you should have probably stopped to check everyone was all right, on the other hand, if you did stop you might of ended up getting the blame. If I was in your position then I probably wouldn't have stopped for fear of getting the blame and being attacked.

Clever Pun

you didn't actually see the accident did you... what can you really offer other than an opinion...

Still offer yourself to the cops and see what happened

Mike Willcox

I think I'll leave well alone and think myself lucky that the lorry didn't hit me. It got quite close for a moment or two maybe as close as 6" or so. It was edging even closer to avoid the van coming the other way as I sprinted away to get ahead. You know if I had stayed I could have been done for assault as that driver deserved a punch on the nose.

Mithras

Legally you probably don't have to report it to the police. It was a Road Traffic Collision, which as far as my limited knowledge works only applies to Mechanically Propelled Vehicles and the driver of such vehicles.
Morally.......You should have stopped to make sure everyone was ok and give details to the police, a statement may have gotten a conviction for the driver of the vehicle for dangerous driving.
The only reason for not doing so would be the belief that your actions caused the collision!
I leave it to you to decide

TheBoyBilly

From your description of events it's difficult to see how you could take any blame for the accident. The lorry was behind you and attempting a stupid overtake on a blind bend. If it had been a wide-load vehicle coming the other way the lorry driver would have had the choice of hitting the oncoming vehicle head-on or wiping you out trying to pull back in.
It's for your conscience as to whether you should have gone back to check, I don't know what I would have done to be honest. It might've depended simply on what mood I was in at the time, but if you were in an irate state and in the mood for retribution it was probably just as well you didn't.

Mike Willcox

TheBoyBilly wrote:

From your description of events it's difficult to see how you could take any blame for the accident. The lorry was behind you and attempting a stupid overtake on a blind bend. If it had been a wide-load vehicle coming the other way the lorry driver would have had the choice of hitting the oncoming vehicle head-on or wiping you out trying to pull back in.
It's for your concience as to whether you should have gone back to check, I don't know what I would have done to be honest. It might've depended simply on what mood I was in at the time, but if you were in an irate state and in the mood for retribution it was probably just as well you didn't.

If I was in anyway to blame it was only because I was there. Thr driver was impatient to pass and wasn't prepared to wait a couple of seconds. The ironic thing is that just around the bend is a T junction where he would have had to have stopped. I think that he wanted to get to that T junction before me so that I wouldn't have held him up.

The thing is when I am doing Tempo training I'm judging an effort at just under 25 mile TT speed and with about 30 minutes left on the ride all I was thinking of was my training. My first thought was serve you bloody well right, Tosser; then now let's get on with the job in hand; get to the T junction, nothing coming, great, out of the saddle pick up speed; that's it keep it going.

I've been sh!t on by too many people in the past to have a conscience but that's another very long story.

pneumatic

If I were you, I'd phone the police and tell them what you know.

I was once in a similar situation and decided to do nothing. Then, out of the blue the police phoned me (they had managed to trace me) on the grounds that I had been "involved" in an accident and had failed to stop. They told me that if you judge that it is not safe to stop at the time, that is ok, but you still have to report the matter within 24 hours to your local station (which is what one of the drivers involved had done, prompting the call to me.)

Nothing came of it in my case, but imagine if the lorry driver has claimed that you swerved out in front of him, causing the collision, or some such rubbish. Your side of the story might matter. If they have to hunt you down for a statement, they might try and slap on a charge of failing to stop at the scene to make the effort worth while.

TheBoyBilly

That's a fair point, pneumatic. Suppose the oncoming driver was badly hurt?The police will take a dim view if they trace you over this incident. A visit to your local nick will ease any worries you have on that score. Your version of events are sound to my way of thinking. Cycle v HGV on a blind bend....it's not rocket science is it? (and I am in no way trying to be flippant here, honest).
For the sake of your peace of mind I think you should act now.

pedylan

By claiming your life experiences have removed your conscience is implying that you know what you should do but you're justifying not doing it.

Putting conscience aside, there is a legal position. You were at the scene of an accident. You left the scene. That is actionable should the police think you were in some way involved. Secondly, the first thing the police do is appeal for witnesses, you were one so you should consider your input helpful in ensuring blame is placed where it lies and justice is done.

I can quite understand why you didn't stop. As you describe it, the truck driver may have felt justified in transferring his blame to you and that could have got nasty.

Telephone the police, tell them why you didn't think it safe to stop and ask them what they would like you to do.

Sounds like you had a very narrow escape so it's a relief you're OK

Mike Willcox

I've taken the advice of you guys and reported it to the police. It took 20 minutes of hanging on to speak to the Surrey Police operations before getting through and giving them all the details. They couldn't tell me if an accident had been reported, only that they would pass on the information and someone may call me again.

I doubt if I'll hear anymore. Thanks all for your views.

pedylan

Spot on.

oldwelshman

No need to stop as you was not involved.
How can people say you may get the blame? Thats ridiculous, as any one knows if you cross over central reservation to overtake it is drivers responsibility and the fact it was on a bend makes it worse for the lorry driver.
Unless you were driving towards the lorry on the wrong side of the road (which you weren't) I fail to see how you could be blamed.
As for being a witness I am not sure how you can be a witness as you only "heard" and did not see the accident.
So that leaves you with the only reason to stop was to see if everyone was ok.
As you have similar temperament to me, I think it was best you carried on or you would end up fighting the lorry driver 8)

azzerb

I'd have stopped and turned to see if it looked as if there were any serious injuries, if not I'd have noted the time and place carry on and report it later. If there were any injuries then you can help out.

I was in a similar situation Sunday climbing up a hill going around a blind corner the car behind me was impatient and decided to overtake then. Thankgod i knew the roads and could see slightly a head, saw the car coming down that side of the road so i literally dived for the hedge, matter of a second later the car overtaking pulling into where i was. Oh and the car on the other side of the road? Yep you guessed it, a police car, and they did NOT look happy. :evil: Oh that was 1/3 idiot drivers that ride...

davelakers

It is pleasing to know that you are ok and I think you did the correct thing, but Id be tempted to ride a different route for a few weeks!!!!

Rob Sallnow

I don't blame you for nor wanting to stop initially....although, as far as your opinion stated shows you were not at fault it is highly likely that the driver wouldn't put his hands up and say he was impatient...you were swerving all over the road and he was trying to avoid you or you were trying to race him and he was trying to avoid you.

markos1963

Any car/lorry that is behind you and decides to overtake does so at their own risk. They lose any right of way they might have had, even if you were swerving around, its their look out. In fact it could be argued that if you saw the approaching car and predicted a collision you could have swerved out to dissuade the lorry driver from overtaking(defensive driving)
I don't blame you for not stopping I have had my fair share of violent confrontations but I think that getting in touch with the police was a good move. If it was me I would have stopped, if only to have a good laugh at the lorry driver(as long as he was not hurt but was over 20 stone and couldn't catch me )[/u]

huggy

Had a similar situation yesterday - firstly a BMW driver thought his car was 10ft wide so pushed me into a ditch 6" from a barbed wire fence, not very nice I thought. But then, a driver got impatient on a blind bend, only to meet an oncoming vehicle - he must have put it up to 60mph and pulled right in front of me, braking quite suddenly afterwards, wouldn't have been so worrying if I wasn't doing 30mph at the time. Mumbled a few words about his driving...
Then came the next problem, I came to the end of my ride in a layby, and that same driver who nearly took me out was standing there taking photos of some swans. I'm sure he knew it was me and tried to look away. I felt like trying to feed him to the swans, but being smaller than him, wearing complete lycra and shoes with no grip, I decided it was best not to.

alan_sherman

I am really glad you reported to the police, but i wish you had gone back at the time.

Why? Because teh person driving the car could really do with the witness. Imagine you are driving along a country road, round a corner and come face to face with a a truck on your side of the road. Any insurance claim without a witness is in danger of being written off as a 50:50 claim - so for the sake of the person driving the car I wish you had stopped (not being personal here - it is a bugbear of mine that people don't stop and offer to be witnesses as it would save so much aggro and frustration).

The police SHOULD marry up any accident reports but I don't have confidence in their system.

You did the right thing to sprint as then the lorry could brake and pull in behind you.

robbarker

You had no legal duty to stop, although if it were me I'd ring the police and offer myself as a witness. Your evidence may be what the police need to prosecute the lorry driver for careless or dangerous driving.

daniel_b

huggy wrote:

I came to the end of my ride in a layby, and that same driver who nearly took me out was standing there taking photos of some swans. I'm sure he knew it was me and tried to look away. I felt like trying to feed him to the swans, but being smaller than him, wearing complete lycra and shoes with no grip, I decided it was best not to.

genius, that made me laugh, and conjures up a great image

NWLondoner

Many issues here.

IIRC you can ONLY overtake if it safe to do so. Overtaking ANY vehicle/cycle on a blind bend is NOT safe so the lorry driver would be 100% to blame.

You could maybe have slowed down to let him overtake, however he could have suddenly swerved back into the lane and took you out. So it was probably best to keep ahead of him.

As for stopping. I would probably have stopped further ahead to see if any innocent people had been hurt etc.

Sadly too many impatient people these days. The other week i was cycling through a single lane road and the Range Rover behind me was giving me plenty of room. However some tw*t behind him was beeping his horn and gesturing him to go faster!!

nwallace

If you had not reported the accident, and a police enquiry was required. The existence of another vehicle, present but not involved in the collision would have been noted and would probably result in an appeal for you to get in touch.

If you didn't look back when you heard the crunch you don't know what happened, but you are aware of the sequence of events in the run up to the accident.

It is possible that the crunch you heard was he sound of the traction units body work hitting a strainer post when the driver shoved it out the way of the car. (assuming there was fences around)

Nuggs

NWLondoner wrote:

...to see if any innocent people had been hurt etc.

So if the culpable lorry driver was lying in a sorry state, you'd have carried on?

Mike Willcox

Nuggs wrote:

NWLondoner wrote:

...to see if any innocent people had been hurt etc.

So if the culpable lorry driver was lying in a sorry state, you'd have carried on?

I did another tempo ride this morning on the same route and I'm glad to say that there were no yellow accident boards appealling for witnesses. Best day of the year so far; warm and sunny and no wind. The weekend looks sh!te though particularly if you're racing.