Helmet camera sparks death threats in Scotland

BentMikey

Check out this article about Magnatom, once of this parish:

http://img137.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hesunta5.jpg

And this video on Scotland TV:
http://www.stv.tv/content/news/headline ... rs_2008032

If you google magnatom and bloodbus there were some pretty horrifying death threats to be found!!

dirk_van_gently

Strathclyde Police warned against anyone taking the the law into their own hands. They said: "We would advise anyone who feels their safety on the road has been compromised to contact the police in the first instance."

Yeah right! that'll work.

Get donut munching coppers out of cars and onto bicycles, let's see how they respond!

hamboman

I love that guy, he's awesome. Your Scottish cousin, eh Mikey?!

alfablue

Magnatom is doing a great job, he wrote on here how he got the local bus company to start a campaign for their drivers.

Sue Archer (Arch on Cyclechat) is doing a similar job in York and was on Radio 5 and local TV a few weeks ago.

It is amazing that some of the people interviewed said he (magnatom) shouldn't be doing it, so they think they should drive how they want with impunity? Even if they thought that it shows a real "attitude" to vocalise this.

The more headcam equipped cyclists there are out there the more chance that drivers may think twice about their treatment of cyclists. We now just have to do our bit and obey the rules of the road!

spen666

alfablue wrote:

...
It is amazing that some of the people interviewed said he (magnatom) shouldn't be doing it, so they think they should drive how they want with impunity? ...

I agree with them - and it should be extended so that I can burgle the houses of those objecting to magnatoms actions with impunity as well

cee

alfablue wrote:

We now just have to do our bit and obey the rules of the road!

This, for me anyway, is the key comment. +1

richardast

Having looked at some of Magnatom's videos on YouTube, I can't help thinking that he's being a bit of a drama queen.
If a Glasgow bus driver fitted a camera to the front of his bus then it wouldn't take long for him to have a similar number of examples of dangerous and illegal cycling.

In this and the other thread covering the story, there is a certain amount of indignation and horror being expressed following the threats against Magnatom on a couple of websites.
If you glance through these BikeRadar forums you will find some of the same contributors to these threads making similar virtual threats of virtual violence to drivers/pedestrians/dogs/each other.

Why aren't we get all riled about those threats?

Are we a bunch of hypocrites?

BentMikey

You're probably right on the hypocrite issue.

I'm not so sure on the drama queen bit, as I've a few videos of my own, and from the eye of my own experiences, I can see that many of magnatom's episodes cover some very dangerous and frightening driving indeed. It often doesn't look nearly as bad on the camera as it was during the actual incident.

number9

If a Glasgow bus driver fitted a camera to the front of his bus then it wouldn't take long for him to have a similar number of examples of dangerous and illegal cycling.

REMIND ME, HOW MANY BUS DRIVERS HAVE BEEN KILLED BY CYCLISTS?

Shadowduck

cee wrote:

alfablue wrote:

We now just have to do our bit and obey the rules of the road!

This, for me anyway, is the key comment. +1

+2

Those in glass houses, and all that...

BentMikey

number9 wrote:

If a Glasgow bus driver fitted a camera to the front of his bus then it wouldn't take long for him to have a similar number of examples of dangerous and illegal cycling.

REMIND ME, HOW MANY BUS DRIVERS HAVE BEEN KILLED BY CYCLISTS?

+1

Shadowduck

number9 wrote:

If a Glasgow bus driver fitted a camera to the front of his bus then it wouldn't take long for him to have a similar number of examples of dangerous and illegal cycling.

REMIND ME, HOW MANY BUS DRIVERS HAVE BEEN KILLED BY CYCLISTS?

Bus drivers shouldn't use their size and relative invulnerability to bully other road users.

Cyclists shouldn't use their size and relative vulnerability as an excuse for riding like inconsiderate d1cks. Just because we're unlikely to kill anyone doesn't make it ok.

iainment

richardast wrote:

Having looked at some of Magnatom's videos on YouTube, I can't help thinking that he's being a bit of a drama queen.
If a Glasgow bus driver fitted a camera to the front of his bus then it wouldn't take long for him to have a similar number of examples of dangerous and illegal cycling.

In this and the other thread covering the story, there is a certain amount of indignation and horror being expressed following the threats against Magnatom on a couple of websites.
If you glance through these BikeRadar forums you will find some of the same contributors to these threads making similar virtual threats of virtual violence to drivers/pedestrians/dogs/each other.

Why aren't we get all riled about those threats?

Are we a bunch of hypocrites?

Agree wholeheartedly, made the same point myself many times.

iainment

richardast wrote:

Having looked at some of Magnatom's videos on YouTube, I can't help thinking that he's being a bit of a drama queen.
If a Glasgow bus driver fitted a camera to the front of his bus then it wouldn't take long for him to have a similar number of examples of dangerous and illegal cycling.

In this and the other thread covering the story, there is a certain amount of indignation and horror being expressed following the threats against Magnatom on a couple of websites.
If you glance through these BikeRadar forums you will find some of the same contributors to these threads making similar virtual threats of virtual violence to drivers/pedestrians/dogs/each other.

Why aren't we get all riled about those threats?

Are we a bunch of hypocrites?

Agree wholeheartedly, made the same point myself many times, that is the bit about aggressive threats to other road users. The rest of your comment I'm not sure about.

richardast

number9 wrote:

If a Glasgow bus driver fitted a camera to the front of his bus then it wouldn't take long for him to have a similar number of examples of dangerous and illegal cycling.

REMIND ME, HOW MANY BUS DRIVERS HAVE BEEN KILLED BY CYCLISTS?

I'm under the impression that more cyclists are killed due to their own risk taking, poor judgement and bad positioning around large vehicles than by homicidal bus drivers.

BentMikey

richardast wrote:

I'm under the impression that more cyclists are killed due to their own risk taking, poor judgement and bad positioning around large vehicles than by homicidal bus drivers.

You do realise that whilst cyclists are quite often the cause of their own single-vehicle crash, that changes completely when you look at cyclist/motor vehicle interactions? I recall that one study found that in cyclist vs motor vehicle crashes, the cyclists were to blame in only 17% of accidents.

This implies that your impression is wrong. I'm sure we both see quite a few stupid cyclists wobbling up the left side of a big vehicle, but given the number of left hooks we all experience, big vehicle drivers must also be to blame some of the time. I've certainly been left hooked by a large truck before, lethal behaviour.

dirk_van_gently

We are all road users, whether Pedestrian, cyclist, car driver, bus driver, lorry driver et all.
Problem is some think that they have more rights than others.
Unfortunately car drivers are sold the "Dream" of freedom and the open road when the reality is very different, this results in unfocused frustration, which gets directed in to whatever is causing them frustration at any one moment. Lorries, cars, buses cycles are all the enemy.
before long everyone is the others enemy, and we all hate each other rather than accepting the fact we are all road users and as such have the right to be there.
Personally I think the Police have completely lost the battle on the streets, and it's now a free for all.

richardast

BentMikey wrote:

You do realise that whilst cyclists are quite often the cause of their own single-vehicle crash, that changes completely when you look at cyclist/motor vehicle interactions? I recall that one study found that in cyclist vs motor vehicle crashes, the cyclists were to blame in only 17% of accidents.

This implies that your impression is wrong. I'm sure we both see quite a few stupid cyclists wobbling up the left side of a big vehicle, but given the number of left hooks we all experience, big vehicle drivers must also be to blame some of the time. I've certainly been left hooked by a large truck before, lethal behaviour.

I don't really care about one study. Theories regarding "cyclist/motor vehicle interactions" don't interest me. I know what I see every day and I believe that you don't go gunning for other people until you've got your own house in order.

Dirk Van Gently wrote:

Personally I think the Police have completely lost the battle on the streets, and it's now a free for all.

The role of the police is to enforce laws, not to force people to act like courteous grown-ups rather than spoilt, selfish children.
Everybody needs to start taking a bit of responsibility and stop blaming everyone else.
We're supposed to be living in a civilized society, aren't we?

number9

I'm under the impression that more cyclists are killed due to their own risk taking, poor judgement and bad positioning around large vehicles than by homicidal bus drivers.

Then I'd suggest you check your facts before posting victim-blaming garbage.

Where's your evidence for this assertion?

Did you:

1/

Make it up?

2/

Pull it out of your ass?

3/

Copy-and-paste it from some obscure pro-speeding website?


Do tell, genuinely curious.

number9

richardast wrote:

number9 wrote:

If a Glasgow bus driver fitted a camera to the front of his bus then it wouldn't take long for him to have a similar number of examples of dangerous and illegal cycling.

REMIND ME, HOW MANY BUS DRIVERS HAVE BEEN KILLED BY CYCLISTS?

I'm under the impression that more cyclists are killed due to their own risk taking, poor judgement and bad positioning around large vehicles than by homicidal bus drivers.

Upon what do you base this impression?

If you mean "I see cyclist behave badly" then you are still quite wrong, cyclist have the lowest "at fault" findings of any road user.

Where are you getting this garbage from?

BentMikey

Why the strong feelings that car drivers aren't to blame? There's more than just one study confirming that drivers are more often to blame than cyclists in these crashes.

I'd completely agree that we all need to improve as road users, and I see cameras as a good way to help this happen.

alfablue

Regarding hypocrisy, and

I know what I see every day and I believe that you don't go gunning for other people until you've got your own house in order.

we talk of "we" here, and we are seeing cyclists as one homogeneous group. We are not, the vast majority on here appear to be responsible and law abiding cyclists, we are however tarred with the same brush as those like Ianament that find all sorts of rationalisations for illegal cycling manoeuvres.

I for one always abide by the law, and show utmost courtesy to all other road users and pedestrians, until such road users threaten my life.

So I (and many of us here) are not hypocrites. Much as I detest the other cycling faction, and am ashamed to be associated with them, I see no reason to put up and shut up because they have yet to put their own house in order - if ever they do!

number9

Cyclists, for instance, instigated the "Stop At Red" campaign.

No motoring group has ever launched a campaign to stop drivers using mobiles or speeding.

Double standards.

richardast

number9 wrote:

I'm under the impression that more cyclists are killed due to their own risk taking, poor judgement and bad positioning around large vehicles than by homicidal bus drivers.

Then I'd suggest you check your facts before posting victim-blaming garbage.

Where's your evidence for this assertion?

Did you:

1/

Make it up?

2/

Pull it out of your ass?

3/

Copy-and-paste it from some obscure pro-speeding website?


Do tell, genuinely curious.

Nice.
You show me the figures that say homicidal bus drivers are killing more cyclists than their own errors.

number9

richardast wrote:

number9 wrote:

I'm under the impression that more cyclists are killed due to their own risk taking, poor judgement and bad positioning around large vehicles than by homicidal bus drivers.

Then I'd suggest you check your facts before posting victim-blaming garbage.

Where's your evidence for this assertion?

Did you:

1/

Make it up?

2/

Pull it out of your ass?

3/

Copy-and-paste it from some obscure pro-speeding website?


Do tell, genuinely curious.

Nice.
You show me the figures that say homicidal bus drivers are killing more cyclists than their own errors.

Could you answer the questions please?

What is your evidence that cyclists are at fault for their own deaths?

Like this case:

http://www.londonmessengers.org/new-bla ... and-effort

In May 2004, Vicki McCreery was killed whilst cycling north on Blackfriars Bridge. She was killed by a bus, which ran her over from behind in broad daylight. The driver was sentenced to a year in prison, having been found guilty of causing death by dangerous driving.





Worldwide stats;

In 95 per cent of accidents involving pedestrians, the driver is at fault. http://www.walk.com.au/pedestriancounci ... PageID=316

Previous studies have found driver negligence to be a factor in one-third to one-half of all child pedestrian collisions.(9) A more recent study of pedestrian fatalities in New York City found drivers largely or partly to blame in more than 70 percent all of incidents, and found pedestrians at fault only 18 percent of the time.(10) http://www.transact.org/ca/caught99/blam.htm

Who's at fault? Researchers found the pedestrians culpable in 50 percent of crashes. Drivers were at fault in 39 percent. Both were found culpable in 1 percent, while culpability was unknown in the other 10 percent of crashes.

http://www.geocities.com/larry_bassett/ ... page4.html


Now, Richard, I'm asking you politely, what is your evidence that cyclists are to blame for their own deaths please?

number9

I'm under the impression that more cyclists are killed due to their own risk taking, poor judgement and bad positioning around large vehicles than by homicidal bus drivers.


http://www.zap20.ukgateway.net/reports/CM_11_96.html

"Earlier this month a taxi driver was convicted of Causing
Death by Dangerous Driving. He deliberately swerved
his taxi into the path of Thomas Gedrich's bicycle killing
him in July last year as they travelled along the New Kings Rd. "

Van driver jailed for road rage attack on cyclist
A driver has been jailed for nine months for deliberately knocking a man off his bike in a road rage attack.
Tahir Chaudhry, of Colinton Road, Edinburgh, swerved his van at the bicycle following an altercation at a set of traffic lights in Edinburgh

Rob Singh, Crime Reporter
A lorry driver who ran over and killed a cyclist who was a writer and jewellery designer was today fined £300 after admitting careless driving.
Emma Foa, 56 died as she cycled from her home in Hampstead Heath to work in Clerkenwell in December. She was killed instantly after being crushed between the cement mixer’s rear wheels and roadside railings.
At Westminster Magistrates Court today Michael Thorn, 52 of Headley Down, Surrey was allowed to keep his driver’s licence and was ordered to pay £100 costs.
The court had been told that Thorn had been looking for some papers in his cabin when the bike was beside him and also when his vehicle began to turn left and the fatal crash occured.

iainment

alfablue wrote:

Regarding hypocrisy, and

I know what I see every day and I believe that you don't go gunning for other people until you've got your own house in order.

we talk of "we" here, and we are seeing cyclists as one homogeneous group. We are not, the vast majority on here appear to be responsible and law abiding cyclists, we are however tarred with the same brush as those like Ianament that find all sorts of rationalisations for illegal cycling manoeuvres.

I for one always abide by the law, and show utmost courtesy to all other road users and pedestrians, until such road users threaten my life.

So I (and many of us here) are not hypocrites. Much as I detest the other cycling faction, and am ashamed to be associated with them, I see no reason to put up and shut up because they have yet to put their own house in order - if ever they do!

I don't find all sorts of rationalisations for my actions, the only illegal activity I indulge in is rljing if the way is clear. I have never offered any oother reason for doing this - if it is clear and I don't take anyone's right of way I go, if not I don't. I don't ride on the pavements, wrong way up a one way, wrong side of the road, drunk, without lights etc.

Accuse me of what I actually do, don't invent things and apply them to me.

:twisted:

Pip pip

number9

I know what I see every day and I believe that you don't go gunning for other people until you've got your own house in order.

A daft remark.

Cyclist who jump red lights no more represent me than Peter Sutcliffe represents lorry drivers.

Now, could you answer the questions please|?

jonginge

iainment wrote:

richardast wrote:

Having looked at some of Magnatom's videos on YouTube, I can't help thinking that he's being a bit of a drama queen.
If a Glasgow bus driver fitted a camera to the front of his bus then it wouldn't take long for him to have a similar number of examples of dangerous and illegal cycling.

In this and the other thread covering the story, there is a certain amount of indignation and horror being expressed following the threats against Magnatom on a couple of websites.
If you glance through these BikeRadar forums you will find some of the same contributors to these threads making similar virtual threats of virtual violence to drivers/pedestrians/dogs/each other.

Why aren't we get all riled about those threats?

Are we a bunch of hypocrites?

Agree wholeheartedly, made the same point myself many times.

+1
I wince at every post that suggests criminal damage is the way to go.

number9

Which contributors to these threads have threatened criminal damage and/or violence please?

Way too many unsubstantiated allegations being made by the same poster here....

alfablue

iainment wrote:

I don't find all sorts of rationalisations for my actions, the only illegal activity I indulge in is rljing if the way is clear. I have never offered any oother reason for doing this - if it is clear and I don't take anyone's right of way I go, if not I don't. I don't ride on the pavements, wrong way up a one way, wrong side of the road, drunk, without lights etc.

Accuse me of what I actually do, don't invent things and apply them to me.

:twisted:

Pip pip

Ah, thought that would flush you out

My apologies, I could have used manoeuver (singular) but I was referring to "those like Ianament" so the plural seemed appropriate. I accept you only commit one illegal manoeuver, albeit hundreds or thousands of times, apparently. As for rationalisations, here is a selection:

It doesn't make any difference to them if you obey the rules or not.

"it's the law and must be obeyed" crew actually make me more likely to jump the light as I know it winds them up and generates some quite amusing self righteous bleating from them.

It's safer following the law? What planet are you on? There are countless examples of oppressive laws over the centuries, it may be that observance of this law makes things safer - although I think that is arguable - but just because something is the law is no guarantee of safety for people.

I am old enough to make up my own mind on this issue and realise the personal consequences to me if caught.

I really cannot believe that the aggressive motorists opinion of anything in their way will be changed by my stopping at every red light on my journey.

Even if all cyclists obeyed all road rules/laws there would still be antipathy from motorists because they need someone they think is lower down the pecking order to vent against.
I have been running redlights for more than 40 years, never had an accident crossing lights and feel there are better things for cyclists to do than policing themselves on behalf of motorists.

Even though you are right to say that RLJ is illegal, even though I know I might get pulled by the police and even if my actions mean that cyclists are denigrated by motorists (although I think this is debatable) your attitude would never persuade me to change my mind over my actions.

I don't agree that my actions are selfish

Still no response about cyclists threatening motorists or causing criminal damage though, and I would have thought that these actions are more heinous than RLJing but hey ho.

Whatever you guys may think the only way it will stop is if there is a realistic, regular risk of being pulled by old bill and fined.

I do not see that RLJ is as heinous a crime as others do,

So it saves time for them then, if they stopped at every red they wouldn't be there to pass would they?

If I break the rules that is a reflection of me not anyone else.

Interestingly while I get grief over this on here, I can only remember 2 times in the last 2 years when anything was said to me by anyone on the road.

I believe that there is a way to rlj that doesn't ruffle feathers.