C+ training plan

Mark Alexander

After I finally recieved last months C+ 3 weeks late , I have read the article on sportifs (which i'm doing this year) and was surprised at how few distance rides were included and never the full length with hills.

I'm wondering if i'm doing something wrong :?: I have posted about the sportif before (thanks for the advice) but it seemed odd to me that most of the rides were 2 hrs max. with very few distance ones. many were 1h -1h 30.

Bronzie

Don't get C+ now so can't really comment on their suggestions, but call me old fashioned if you must, I still think the best way to train for 10 hour rides is to do plenty of long rides in training.

Mix it up with speed work by to increase your speed, but you need to be able to ride long hours in the saddle to achieve something like an Etape finish.

oldwelshman

Different things work for different people anyway so its just a guide.
You do not necessarily have to do the same distance as a ride your doing but should do minimum of 50% I would guess.
Personally I do not do more than 100 on any training ride even for base miles.
Most rides tend to be between 40 and 80 for me.
On the day, adrenalin always helps

Bronzie

oldwelshman wrote:

On the day, adrenalin always helps

Too true - plus if you train solo, the fact that you'll have loads of wheels to follow is a huge advantage and will allow you to ride probably 20% further for the same energy expenditure as riding solo.

I normally try to build up to doing solo training rides of upto 80% of the ride I'm training for (either time or distance) within four weeks of your main goal.

bahzob

If doing first sportive would definitely recommend doing at least one full length ride over similar terrain prior to the event itself, a couple if possible (on the second applying any lessons learned from first).

Apart from physical training benefits it also lets you check out things like feeding/drinking plus makes sure you and your bike will get on along together for the duration.

Also help mental preparation, if you have cycled 100 miles solo/in small group then a sportive over similar distance will be easier, should hold no fears and you will enjoy all the more as a result.

dennisn

I'm a bit confused(USA you know). Give me the rundown on what exactly a "sportif?"
"sportive?" consists of if you would.

thanx

Dennis Noward

Bronzie

Dennis, a sportive is a long distance event (usually involving some climbs) that falls somewhere between a road race and an audax (non-competitive long distance cycle ride).

The biggest events are probably the continental European events - ie the Etape du Tour which is a full stage of the current years Tour route (this year it's Pau-Hautacam 169km with about 4000m of vertical ascent) held on closed roads with 8,000 starters. Each rider is individually timed and is given Gold, Silver or Bronze standards depending on their finishing time and ranked by gender and age. The guys that win this each year are usually top amateurs, sometimes knocking on the door of a pro-contract.

Events in the UK are supposed to be "non-competitive" because of our road traffic laws, but that doesn't stop many treating them as a race, although probably the majority are just riding to get round the course and achieve personal fulfilment that way.

SteveR_100Milers

I only ever do 30 miles training rides for up to 120 mile events, but then that's why I come half way down the finishing table I guess....

Ken Night

bahzob wrote:

If doing first sportive would definitely recommend doing at least one full length ride over similar terrain prior to the event itself, a couple if possible (on the second applying any lessons learned from first)..........................


Apart from physical training benefits it also lets you check out things like feeding/drinking plus makes sure you and your bike will get on along together for the duration.

Also help mental preparation, if you have cycled 100 miles solo/in small group then a sportive over similar distance will be easier, should hold no fears and you will enjoy all the more as a result.

Absolutely agree-two or more even better, if you want to post a good time

The full length ride also conditions your body to working hard in the last third of the ride, rather than just surviving-and you will be working hard on the Hautacam and the approaches to it

Three years ago there were virtually no sportives in the UK, now I would suggest there is no excuse for not being prepared-riding some of the UK sportives allows experience of the sort of intensity you can sustain, so providing more self knowledge

BeaconRuth

Mark Alexander wrote:

After I finally recieved last months C+ 3 weeks late , I have read the article on sportifs (which i'm doing this year) and was surprised at how few distance rides were included and never the full length with hills.

I'm wondering if i'm doing something wrong :?: I have posted about the sportif before (thanks for the advice) but it seemed odd to me that most of the rides were 2 hrs max. with very few distance ones. many were 1h -1h 30.

I haven't seen C+ either, but is it possible that the article is trying to suggest time-efficient training methods for busy people with very limited time? It is possible to make a lot of progress with short rides, but whether a diet of nothing but short rides is completely optimal training for someone aiming for a high standard of riding is another matter. But maybe the article isn't aimed at people who will get round these sportives in the first quarter or so - is it more for novices who are aiming to get round before the cut-off time? I'm sure it is possible to complete sportives without training over long distances - if only completing them is your aim.

Ruth

oldwelshman

Ken Night wrote:

bahzob wrote:

If doing first sportive would definitely recommend doing at least one full length ride over similar terrain prior to the event itself, a couple if possible (on the second applying any lessons learned from first)..........................


Apart from physical training benefits it also lets you check out things like feeding/drinking plus makes sure you and your bike will get on along together for the duration.

Also help mental preparation, if you have cycled 100 miles solo/in small group then a sportive over similar distance will be easier, should hold no fears and you will enjoy all the more as a result.

Absolutely agree-two or more even better, if you want to post a good time

The full length ride also conditions your body to working hard in the last third of the ride, rather than just surviving-and you will be working hard on the Hautacam and the approaches to it

Three years ago there were virtually no sportives in the UK, now I would suggest there is no excuse for not being prepared-riding some of the UK sportives allows experience of the sort of intensity you can sustain, so providing more self knowledge

Although it would be nice to do a ride equal in lenght to the ride your doing, but I do not agree it is necessary and do not see any real benefit training wise though.
It is easy to calculate the ampunt of food you require, but to be honest I don't think it is even worth doing that as there is normally plenty of food at events and I always take some reserves.
Last year was my first year back and I did not do any rides of the lenghts I did for sportives, most of which were 100 to 135 miles.
I posted 2nd fastest time in one and we in top 10% in all of them so not convinced it has effect on finishing times.

oldwelshman

Ken Night wrote:

bahzob wrote:

If doing first sportive would definitely recommend doing at least one full length ride over similar terrain prior to the event itself, a couple if possible (on the second applying any lessons learned from first)..........................


Apart from physical training benefits it also lets you check out things like feeding/drinking plus makes sure you and your bike will get on along together for the duration.

Also help mental preparation, if you have cycled 100 miles solo/in small group then a sportive over similar distance will be easier, should hold no fears and you will enjoy all the more as a result.

Absolutely agree-two or more even better, if you want to post a good time

The full length ride also conditions your body to working hard in the last third of the ride, rather than just surviving-and you will be working hard on the Hautacam and the approaches to it

Three years ago there were virtually no sportives in the UK, now I would suggest there is no excuse for not being prepared-riding some of the UK sportives allows experience of the sort of intensity you can sustain, so providing more self knowledge

Although it would be nice to do a ride equal in lenght to the ride your doing, but I do not agree it is necessary and do not see any real benefit training wise though.
It is easy to calculate the ampunt of food you require, but to be honest I don't think it is even worth doing that as there is normally plenty of food at events and I always take some reserves.
Last year was my first year back and I did not do any rides of the lenghts I did for sportives, most of which were 100 to 135 miles.
I posted 2nd fastest time in one and we in top 10% in all of them so not convinced it has effect on finishing times.

nmcgann

Just an observation as I'm not doing any training for sportifs.

I've found doing relatively high intensity and strength work in 1h/2h sessions has made the longer, lower intensity rides a lot easier.

However - I think doing some longer rides is important though - remaining comfortable on a bike after 6+ hours can be difficult. I've stopped doing 200k audaxes since I've admitted to myself that the grief from my backside over that length of ride outweighs any enjoyment I may gain and no amount of fiddling with saddles/shorts/position is going to help

Neil

bahzob

Oldwelshman: Think you have a bit of cycling history and so agree in that case probably know yourself well enough to know what training need to do for sportives.

My advice more for first timers. e.g. its one thing to know how many calories you need to take, another to know how to take them.

Mark Alexander

I agree that it seems to aim both at the new to proper training and those with time constraints. My problem is not time as such but a lack of pattern.
I am surprised that that little time can allow someone to train for such a large event.

Alex_Simmons/RST

Mark Alexander wrote:

I agree that it seems to aim both at the new to proper training and those with time constraints. My problem is not time as such but a lack of pattern.
I am surprised that that little time can allow someone to train for such a large event.

Sounds more like a lack of a plan to me.

Generic off the shelf plans may or may not be suitable for you. You've already seen this one doesn't take advantage of your individual circumstances. While you'll probably get fitter with such a plan, I'm sure you could do much better than that.

How about learning more about planning your own season's training or contacting a coach, like Ruth Beacon or Ric Stern?


(yes, I'm a coach too so don't shoot me down for suggesting that)

normanp

Further to nmcgann: I have found the longer rides really help - I only get to know a saddle intimately between about 130km and 200km. The result for me has meant that I have tried several saddles and have now got it about right - and invested in Assos Mille shorts with Assos cream. Also there are other 'hotspots' that only appear on longer rides eg sore feet / hands, as well as having to deal with mistakes in eating and drinking.

oldwelshman

bahzob wrote:

Oldwelshman: Think you have a bit of cycling history and so agree in that case probably know yourself well enough to know what training need to do for sportives.

My advice more for first timers. e.g. its one thing to know how many calories you need to take, another to know how to take them.

Well I only did my first spotive last year
Idid race 23 years ago for 2 years.
For the psortives I just rode steady long miles on club runs and just learnt when to eat on those rides.
The human body is quite good t letting you know when to eat, but having something to eat on a bike every 25 miles or so is generally enough.
Ihave seen some people eating much too much, one guy on these forums said he used 25 gels !!
I think most sportives are well organised with the feed stations well positioned but as I said I take a gel or two extra and at the station pick up a spare banana just in case.
I do not believe you need to do the ride lengths tho, asyou say the learning to eat is more important.

Mark Alexander

Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:

Mark Alexander wrote:

I agree that it seems to aim both at the new to proper training and those with time constraints. My problem is not time as such but a lack of pattern.
I am surprised that that little time can allow someone to train for such a large event.

Sounds more like a lack of a plan to me.

Generic off the shelf plans may or may not be suitable for you. You've already seen this one doesn't take advantage of your individual circumstances. While you'll probably get fitter with such a plan, I'm sure you could do much better than that.

How about learning more about planning your own season's training or contacting a coach, like Ruth Beacon or Ric Stern?


(yes, I'm a coach too so don't shoot me down for suggesting that)

Thanks Alex. You're right, although it's not so much a lack of plan than a lack of an educated plan. I have met Ric once on a ride and have given it thought. I have also been to his site before.

Mark Alexander

Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:

Mark Alexander wrote:

I agree that it seems to aim both at the new to proper training and those with time constraints. My problem is not time as such but a lack of pattern.
I am surprised that that little time can allow someone to train for such a large event.

Sounds more like a lack of a plan to me.

Generic off the shelf plans may or may not be suitable for you. You've already seen this one doesn't take advantage of your individual circumstances. While you'll probably get fitter with such a plan, I'm sure you could do much better than that.

How about learning more about planning your own season's training or contacting a coach, like Ruth Beacon or Ric Stern?


(yes, I'm a coach too so don't shoot me down for suggesting that)

I agree that it's a lack of a good structured plan as opposed to 'fit as much in as possible' as and when'.

I have met Ric once on a ride and got on well so have thought about having a word.