1 in 5 (20%) ,is it me

inaperfectworld

i am thinking of going somewhere hilly in france, i wouldn't mind the alps, but don't think i'm up to it, ardeche maybe or vercours. i'm 53, light and am comfortable doing 50 mile rides when a bit fitter in summer
thought i'd start practising on a 20% hill nearby, it's about 1/2 mile long and a 18 mile round trip from my house, i've only been doing 15-20 miles a week over winter.
it was very, very hard and one problem was the front wheel was wanting to lift up and although the hybrid has a 24" bottom gear (a22 front and 24 rear) i was struggling and wishing for a lower gear. even thought for a minute of giving up. i then blatted it the 7 miles home (windy day too and nothing is flat round here). completely done in for the rest of morning and afternoon
so should this be a struggle? and should i forgret the alps

Tom Butcher

Half a mile of 20% is pretty special - what is the hill ?

iainf72

inaperfectworld wrote:

so should this be a struggle? and should i forgret the alps

You won't see those kind of gradients in the Alps in general.

sloboy

The big climbs in France (i.e. TdF type climbs) tend be long (very long) but not so steep. Maybe you'll see a 7% average over 15-20km, with perhaps a 10-12% peak.

So its a different challenge - the problem being to run up a more gentle hill for an hour or two. And you can always stop for a "photo opportunity"

nasahapley

Well in response to the two questions at the bottom of your thread, yes and no respectively. A 20% grade is serious stuff, few people could honestly say half a mile of it is easy, so if you haven't been doing much cycling up hills recently I'd say well done for toughing it out! I have the problem with the front wheel lifting too; I prefer to stay seated until the gradient gets to 25% or above which means the front wheel does get very light. Basically I just lean right forward (chew the handlebars!) and concentrate on putting the power out in a measured way rather than stomping on the pedals as hard as possible.

My experience of alpine climbs is nil, but I did do what is supposed to be a fairly tough climb in the Pyrenees a few years ago on the back of virtually no training at all. I was pleasantly surprised at how easy it felt compared to the short-but-very-steep ones in northern England. I think you'd be hard pushed to find many half mile stretches of 20% in the Alps, from what I've seen the climbs have shallower grades but go on for ages and ages, so if you can get used to putting in a decent effort for a few hours at a time you'll be fine.

Bronzie

If all you've done over the winter is 15-20 miles a week, it's no surprise you're struggling on a 1/2 mile of 20%.

Build your miles up gradually so you are comfortable with 50+ miles flat(ish), then 50+ miles hilly.................then do hill climb training if necessary although as has been posted, you may get more benefit of riding more alpine climbs (long steady grades) - roads like Snake Pass or Cat & Fiddle in the Peaks are about as close as you can get in the UK.

heavymental

Keep riding and go hit the alps in the summer. Sure you'll be fine once the miles are in the legs. And if not you can always do it French style and stop at every cafe for a pastry and a coffee! 8)

inaperfectworld

tom butcher. i
t's to the east of otley west yorks, village called arthington; road comes off south here on the poole/ harewood roa,d A659, going past bank foot farm on it's way up arthington bank. it runs up to blackhill farm and quarry and then to golden acre park. it has 2 single arrows along it's length and a sign at the top of 20% and my map measure indicates just less than a kilometre. it has only a short gradual approach so the sharp gradient starts suddenly.
although all my cycling years have been in the area, i've never been up this one; there are a fair few other 1 arrow roads round here and i always thought the east chevin road was the worst. well it is longer but not as severe in my opinion.
i've always had this idea that i was a weak cyclist, my average speeds are pitiful by what i read on postings here, but there is no flat land in and around leeds, so it is encouraging to hear that it sounds a tough one

bobtbuilder

Hi,

Don't let the average speeds thing put you off. You will always be slower than riders of an identical abilty who live in flatter areas than you do. This gap in speed will be even bigger if you are not a confident descender.

Half a mile at 20% is good going in anyone's book, but nothing like an Alpine pass. As previously mentioned, most Alpine climbs will avergae in the region of 7-9 %, but over much greater distances, often of at least 12 KM.

I consider myself good at short steep climbs (anything less than 1 mile in length), but struggled like a dog during my first Alpine trip. The technique and mindset required are totally different. On a small, steep local climb, I tend to go flat out and "blast" my way to the top. An Alpine climb is a totally different proposal - you need to find a pace and rhythm that you can maintain for over an hour.

Also, are you going because you want to test yourself, or just for pleasure? If you want both, try the Mont Ventoux area. As well as that legendary climb, there are several smaller cols in the area 4-8km in length as well as some stunning scenery.

Happy riding!

Not Another Hill

[/quote]i've always had this idea that i was a weak cyclist, my average speeds are pitiful by what i read on postings here, but there is no flat land in and around leeds, so it is encouraging to hear that it sounds a tough one[/quote]

If you carry on through to Harewood, turn left to Collingham, right at Collingham to Boston Spa, through Boston Spa to Tadcaster then head out towards Cawood, you'll find that reasonably flat. Especially compared to Pennines where I do most of my cycling.

Your average speeds will definately be slower in hilly areas like Otley. It takes much longer top climb a 1 mile hill than descend one so your overall time will be slower than a flat route in which you can keep a higher average speed up, covering distance quicker.

Not Another Hill

inaperfectworld wrote:

tom butcher. i've always had this idea that i was a weak cyclist, my average speeds are pitiful by what i read on postings here, but there is no flat land in and around leeds, so it is encouraging to hear that it sounds a tough one

If you carry on through to Harewood, turn left to Collingham, right at Collingham to Boston Spa, through Boston Spa to Tadcaster then head out towards Cawood, you'll find that reasonably flat. Especially compared to Pennines where I do most of my cycling.

Your average speeds will definately be slower in hilly areas like Otley. It takes much longer top climb a 1 mile hill than descend one so your overall time will be slower than a flat route in which you can keep a higher average speed up, covering distance quicker.

Anonymous

inaperfectworld wrote:

i am thinking of going somewhere hilly in france, i wouldn't mind the alps, but don't think i'm up to it, ardeche maybe or vercours. i'm 53, light and am comfortable doing 50 mile rides when a bit fitter in summer
thought i'd start practising on a 20% hill nearby, it's about 1/2 mile long and a 18 mile round trip from my house, i've only been doing 15-20 miles a week over winter.
it was very, very hard and one problem was the front wheel was wanting to lift up and although the hybrid has a 24" bottom gear (a22 front and 24 rear) i was struggling and wishing for a lower gear. even thought for a minute of giving up. i then blatted it the 7 miles home (windy day too and nothing is flat round here). completely done in for the rest of morning and afternoon
so should this be a struggle? and should i forgret the alps

No, I wouldn't give up on the Alpes just yet....they are very different types of climbs and require different approaches...I've just checked the climb you mention with Memory map...its a climb of 90meters in 0.65km's...14% avg....theres very little like that in the Alpes...I use a triple with 30x27 lowest gearing...I've managed up all the very steepest climbs in the UK with that....but I'm also very glad to have the triple on the big continental climbs...although they are not nearly so steep I find I need a gearing of 30x24 just because of the enormous length you climb over there...so if you can owrk on your endurance I reckon if you can get up a steep bugga like that on existing gearing then it should be ok for long alpine ascents aswell....just work on endurance...and I agree...climbs like the Snake Pass and Cat & Fiddle are excellent training climbs....but since you live in Otley why not head North slightly and get stuck into Fleetmoss and Buttertubs etc...maybe steeper than Alpine climbs but they are very long climbs...good training!

An avreage ascent time on one of the big ones in the Alpes will probaly require a 2 hour constant effort.

Good luck.

nasahapley

Inaperfectworld, I went up the hill you referred to today (in a car I should add!), it does look like a bit of a stinker! I reckon if you could start doing reps of that it would stand you in very good stead for the Alps. I probably don't live too far from you (I'm in Ilkley), so I too find that unless I go straight up Wharfedale and back my average speeds are usually very ordinary. When I do manage to go on a flat ride, though, I can clip along at 20mph for hours on end; I don't think that you can be a weak cyclist if you've been riding around here for years!

Oh, and I second Richyboy's advice re getting into the Dales, but am a bit miffed that he omitted to mention my favourite climb in the area - Park Rash just out of Kettlewell (which is also the classic Dales climb which is nearest to Otley, I think). Get up that and you'll fear nothing!

Bart Puss

Know your climb...goes past the Quarry entrance...only ever been DOWN it...(bit scary as u go over the top )...would imagine it is somewhat difficult up ! :shock:

I stick to Creskeld Lane or even Weardly Bank....always found Pool Bank a total nightmare. :roll:

Try Greenhow Bank/Norwood Edge...if u can get up those (steep and long) I`m sure the Alps will hold no fears.

ut_och_cykla

The key for 'oldies/fatties' like me is gears and endurance. Low enough to keep going whatever adn good enough to keep going whatever. i've cycled Ventoux, AlpeDhuez, Lauteret/ Gailbier Glandon /Croix de fer.No problems - but it took a while -the Alpe took 1:53 for example of sustained hard effort. Many of the Alp and Pyrenee roads were built years ago - before the motor car was popular - and as such are carefully, beautifully graded giving a steady climb (generalisation I know!) for a loaded pack animal. Don't worry about teh steep stuff, get used to maintaining a highish level for a long time , fit appropriate gears and the hills will be yours !!

kenbaxter

The other great thing about Alpine climbs is that they are not constant. Did Alpe d'huez last year in 58 mins and the gradient either steepens, or flattens on the hairpins so you do get a break and a chance to catch your breath between steeper sections. Do the big climbs like Galibier and its the same, there are lots of places to catch your breath and often some fairly flat bits along hanging valleys etc. Plus its worth taking your time to look at the views!

The real test of constant climbing for me was Ventoux - best climb I've done by a million miles and no respite from bottom to top! Now that did hurt!

AND I'm not from Yorkshire. If you are you should be a way better climber than me!

DavidBelcher

Not Another Hill wrote:

inaperfectworld wrote:

tom butcher. i've always had this idea that i was a weak cyclist, my average speeds are pitiful by what i read on postings here, but there is no flat land in and around leeds, so it is encouraging to hear that it sounds a tough one

If you carry on through to Harewood, turn left to Collingham, right at Collingham to Boston Spa, through Boston Spa to Tadcaster then head out towards Cawood, you'll find that reasonably flat. Especially compared to Pennines where I do most of my cycling.

Your average speeds will definately be slower in hilly areas like Otley. It takes much longer top climb a 1 mile hill than descend one so your overall time will be slower than a flat route in which you can keep a higher average speed up, covering distance quicker.

There is a nasty little rise up to Harewood itself on the A659, though - think it's around 1 in 10. Carrying on through to Wetherby instead of Boston Spa also offers some flatter roads around Tockwith, Wighill and the outskirts of York. Living in Otley myself, I know exactly what you mean about the effect of the general "lumpiness" of the landscape on average speeds (it does mean a good uphill workout is never far from the front door, though). Ilkley to Otley by way of the A65 and A660 usually offers a nice fast, flat run - especially down the Burley by-pass with a tailwind!

David