Orthotics in cycling shoes

hammerite

I'm a wearer of orthotics pretty much all the time. I started wearing them to help avoid injury when running, but also wear them in my day to day shoes.

I tend not to wear orthotics in my cycling shoes, as I figured that I'm not walking/running in them so it will make little difference. I can't think that wearing them will make on

But then I noticed in the Bettini/Sidi shoe story on the front page http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/no-more-slip-ups-for-bettini-14626 that the shoes have removable arch support.

anyone know if it will be of benefit wear my orthotics for cycling?

ColinJ

Bettini is only wearing those shoes for walking about in, not for cycling!

Having said that, I have problems with my left foot when cycling and wondered whether orthotics would help so I'd be interested in the answer to your question too.

There isn't an awful lot of spare room in the typical cycling shoe. I suppose an arch support fills in what what would be a gap, but there must be more to it than that or the thing would move about in the shoe.

I suppose a very thin part under the toes, an arch support, and maybe a heel-lift would be what I need (my left leg is shorter than my right).

portuguese mike

I use some superfeet insoles in my cycling shoes to help with my knee alignment. When i had my cyclefit session it transpired that both of my knees were pointing to the left as i pedalled. this no longer happens when i use the insoles which has consequently improved my pedalling efficiency and comfort.

whether you have any such issues when you pedal i don't know but if you do then they might well help.

hammerite

ColinJ wrote:

Bettini is only wearing those shoes for walking about in, not for cycling!

I did wonder why the hell he'd need to wear arch supports though. Even though he's highly successful and has to go on the podium, I can't believe that it would cause him too much damage if he didn't have them!!

Sizing is my main worry too Colin, I doubt there would be much room in my cycling shoes to get orthotics in (although I do have some half length ones, I doubt they would be hgely comfortable).

Intesresting that insoles made a difference to you Mike, could they not change your knee direction by changing you cleat position?

I guess it might be worth a call to my podiatrist to find out what she thinks. I'm not getting any niggles on the bike, but I know from running that when they start they're a pain to get rid of.

knedlicky

I’ve worn custom-made orthotics for about 15 years, more or less always in normal outdoor shoes and definitely always in running shoes, football boots and hiking boots. From the start, I’ve never worn them in cycling shoes or ski boots, as I felt in neither sport is there any real impact on the feet, and for both sports I want a fairly-tight fit, esp. towards the rear of the shoe.
I did check with a sports/orthopaedic doctor and he assured me it was fine what I was doing. I’ve never had any problems.

I don't think the idea of almost completely rubber soles on racing shoes is new, despite the Bettini advert.
And I wouldn't mind if manufacturers put a bit more rubber on the sole than they do now - a postage stamp size piece at the heel and perhaps a very narrow strip at the front are more token gestures than anything useful.

SunWuKong

I use orthotics but not in my cycling shoes. I did swap out the sidi insoles for superfeet ones though and find them much more comfortable.

AntLockyer

I have them in my cycling shoes to ensure correct mechanics

andy_wrx

Can't see the point.

The mechanics of pedalling are rather different to those of running or walking, you don't have the heel-strike-toe-off pronation aspect etc, so I can't see that the sort of orthoses prescribed by a podiatrist for running or walking would be correct for cycling.

Bike fit (saddle height, setback, crank length and cleat adjustment) on the other hand will have major impact on pedalling dynamics, particularly on the knees rather than feet/ankles/lower leg.

AntLockyer

Mine weren't prescribed by a podiatrist for running or walking they were for cycling. This was at the same time as my bike fit was done.

portuguese mike

AntLockyer wrote:

Mine weren't prescribed by a podiatrist for running or walking they were for cycling. This was at the same time as my bike fit was done.

Yes, thats what happened for me as well mine are specific to cycling. Also, as far as fitting them into cycling i have specialised BG comps and Specialised S works road and they fit perfectly.

hammerite

Thanks for the replies guys. Just as I thought, I don't have any problems on the bike, mine aren't prescribed for cycling so just keep the way I am.

il_principe

Yes - I have e-soles which were fitted at the same time as session at cyclefit. They have certainly helped me, got rid of knee pain and my whole foot feels properly supported now. I'm sure it does make a difference in terms of power transfer etc, but for me the most important thing is to protect my knees. An awful lot of postural problems start at the feet so it's worth getting them setup correctly.

samyarwood

I've recently been having physiotherapy for a variety of flat-foot related arch/ankle/shin/knee/lower-back related problems that have dated back to years ago when I used to do more sports involving running. Throughout my twenties I have used my bike as way of exercising without incurring the pain that my flat feet and shin splints would cause me. However, I have occasionally noticed that when I'm really working on the bike, especially when I'm pushing a big gear that I have some discomfort in my arch and lower calf.

Along with giving me a bunch of exercises to correct various muscular imbalances, my physiotherapist put me in orthotics for day to day walking and encouraged me to experiment with them in my cycling shoes. I was sceptical, for much the same reasons that Andy_WRX is, but the thing that I have realised is that in my case, despite the lack of heal-strike in cycling, my feet still pronate on the downstroke. Or rather, while there may not be any actual movement/roll of the foot inwards, I think that my flat feet mean that my foot is already and always pronated in my cycling shoe. My othotics seem to correct this. My feet, ankles, knees and hips in both legs both instantly feel more in line and I subjectively feel that because of this I'm transmitting more power to the pedals (alas, no powermeter to available to check this).

The one problem is that space in cycling shoes is pretty tight and I couldn't use the othotics for my day to day shoes in my old Sidi Geniuses without incurring lots of pain when my feet fill with blood when exercising. Superfeet seem to be working better beacuse they're less bulky. My reservation with them however is that they have a 3-4mm thick sole around the toe, and I wonder whether this increased distance from the pedal has any effect on power transfer. If it does, it's probably by a miniscule amount.

Anway, I guess the points that I'm trying to make are that:

1) I believe pronation does occur on the bike.
2) Orthotics can help correct it.
3) I believe that if you do pronate then orthotics will better align your ankles, knees and hips and as a result, increase the efficiency of power transfer to the pedals (I would love to test this)
4) If your problems sound a bit like mine I recommend you experiment with othotics.

Sam.

rampax

I have been an occasional/weekend/fair weather cyclist for years, but about two years ago I stepped things up and started cycling the 10 miles to work, 10 miles back 3 or 4 times a week. Then about 9 months ago decided to go the full hog and sell the car.
I started getting bad pain on the outside of my knees after about 20 miles, and general leg tightness.
I have quite "Chaplin-esque" feet naturally.
I went to see a Podiatrist who noted I had flat feet and a large amount of pronation, as well as generally very tight leg muscles.
He got me some "off the peg" orthoses to wear all the time as arch support.
These definately help during walking, and I cant walk properly without them now.
On the bike however, they dont really make much difference in terms of reducing discomfort.
I then went to see a sports specific Podiatrist who said that I had a high level of "forefoot varus" - among other things. He tried me out on various types of diagnostic orthoses - all of which were extremely uncomfortable and were unusable.
He then recomended seeing an Osteopath for my general leg tightness.
This Osteopath was really good, and explained things really well, and showed how my whole body posture is unbalanced.
I had several massage sessions with him over a couple of months, but these didnt really make any noticable difference.

The conclusion from all this?
I am doing TOO MANY miles for somebody with all these foot and leg problems.
The action of my feet being "forced" straight for long/strenuous periods is putting a lot of stress on both my knees and hips. This definately makes sense, and although its NOT what I wanted to hear, I suspected it would probably come down to this, eventually.

Now I break up my journey with a section of train, so my daily mileage is down from 20 to more like 8.
I still do all the stretches that I have been shown by the Osteopath.
I think there has been some improvement. Overall leg tightess is not as bad, but as yet I have not done any really serious rides to see if the knee and hip pain comes back.

My Ostopath explained that these things take some time to get bad, and some time to get good again. He also mentioned that if I carried on doing 100plus miles a week that I would allmost certainly have problems walking when I get older due to the excessive wear. This was the scary bit, and made me change my ways. I may change further if it gets bad again... maybe even buying a car!!!

knedlicky

rampax wrote:

I have quite "Chaplin-esque" feet naturally.
The conclusion from all this?
I am doing TOO MANY miles for somebody with all these foot and leg problems.
The action of my feet being "forced" straight for long/strenuous periods is putting a lot of stress on both my knees and hips. This definately makes sense, and although its NOT what I wanted to hear, I suspected it would probably come down to this, eventually.

I have Chaplinesque feet too, and over-pronation, but wear no orthotics when cycling. I don't have any feet problems on the bike or a feeling they are being forced straight. So maybe you need to think again?

rampax wrote:

My Ostopath explained that these things take some time to get bad, and some time to get good again. He also mentioned that if I carried on doing 100plus miles a week that I would allmost certainly have problems walking when I get older due to the excessive wear. This was the scary bit, and made me change my ways. I may change further if it gets bad again... maybe even buying a car!!!

It never ceases to surprise me how doctors in the UK often recommend 'the less is more' approach. I think it's often a sign they've reached the limit of their competency. This approach can bring other problems.

I'd suggest you check your bike's set-up is correct, and visit a physiotherapist to get his assessment and learn some suitable stretching exercises.

rampax

Well, I have seen 3 "specialists" now, and there do not appear to be any miracle cures.
One of the podiatrists did put me on my bike and measure things up, and said the set up was correct, though to be fair, I ride several bikes for different purposes.
It seems like Podiatrists, Osteopaths and Physiotherapists have a lot of crossover in what they do.
All the ones I have seen seem to have run out of ideas when there has been little or no response to their treatments.
If I do pay to go and see somebody else - I have to know that they are experts in the field of cycling, not just general sport.

Any suggestions?

Parsnip49

I always wear my custom ones running, otherwise my knees and tendons are royally buggered for a week after

i always wear them cycling - seem to make my shoes comfier, and makes the pressure across my feet more even - without them i tend to get cramp in the arch of my feet - not really such a big deal though - the heel on my shoes is high enough that my heel doesnt pop out. for downhilling i dont wear my custom ones, i have more slimline off the shelf ones that i prefer because my DH shoes have a really low heel, and i pop out if i use my custom ones.

Skiing and climbing are the only things i dont wear them for, climbing because i cant (wont fit in shoes, lack of felxibiity and sensitivity with them in), and skiing because my feet hurt like hell with them in - not sure why that is though...

flat feet for the lose:(

djmc

My other half wears orthotics in cycling shoes. He finds them good. At one time he always used to get 'hot foot' when cycling long distances particularly in hot weather. They do take up extra room in the shoe. If the shoe has an insole take it out. Otherwise get a larger size of shoe. You need to try the shoes on with the orthotic.

Blonde

I have custom foot beds (that support my arches) as well as a wedge under the left cleat. The foot beds fit in all three pairs of my shoes just fine - they are actually thinner than the original insoles, which you take out when you fit the custom ones.

hammerite

I was in JE James in Chesterfield at the weekend, there was a leaflet by a podiatrist who is studying the effect of orthotics for cycling. They were offering a free consultation and recommendations in return for the participants providing information on the results.

I think the pracitioner was based in Sheffield, I'll have a look for the leaflet when I get home and let you know if anyone is interested.

With regards to the "specialists" rampax mentions, I think there is quite a problem with the advice and regulation of the advice. Runnersworld mag conducted some research of podiatrists to see the recommendations, they sent the same person to a load of different podiatrists in London, no two pods recommended the same treatment to that person.

I myself have had three podiatrists. The first one I just wasn't happy with, the orthotics kept giving me blisters. The second I was quite happy with the results (he also said that the work of my previous pod was pretty shoddy), but then I moved to a different area. The pod I use now has been best value for money and has provided me with the longest lasting, most comfortable orthotics. The latter two agreed with what I have needed, but that differed from the first person.

rampax

Hamerite - yes - if you could find his name I can force my girlfreind to drive me over to Sheffield. I am in Stockport.
I would be a perfect case for him to study!

hammerite

The company are called Peak Podiatry, based in Chesterfield. The leaflet says to contact Bill Burborough on 01246 203195.

It says that is you are chosen you will get a free stance and gait biomechanical assessment, cycling biomechanical data will be stored and available to you for future use.

The objective is

1. to find a correlation between the causes of rearfoot pronation in gait knee tracking, pedal float dependancy, and injuries/abnormalities associated with cycling.
2. To evolve a reliable model for the correction of foot/ankle/knee tracking and alignment abnormalities.
3. To present a rationale for the selection of in shoe orthoses, pedal inclination or pedal float for the purpose of achieving optimum limb allignment and efficient power transfer.

Apparently they want people who think they have problems, and also "perfect" specimens for a comparison.



**I have nothing to do with the company! and hadn't heard of them until Saturday, but thought some of you may find it useful.

davidguitard73

hammerite wrote:

I'm a wearer of orthotics pretty much all the time. I started wearing them to help avoid injury when running, but also wear them in my day to day shoes.

I tend not to wear orthotics in my cycling shoes, as I figured that I'm not walking/running in them so it will make little difference. I can't think that wearing them will make on

But then I noticed in the Bettini/Sidi shoe story on the front page http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/no-more-slip-ups-for-bettini-14626 that the shoes have removable arch support.

anyone know if it will be of benefit wear my orthotics for cycling?

I agreed.
I wear orthotic for my heel to arch.
In half front orthotic ( arch area outside to toe ) is no need.

Don't put orthotic in when you wear a cycling shoe.
Make sure bring your orthotic shoe in your package. That is simple.

rampax

I thought I would offer an update to this thread in case anyone has the same problems, as recently I seem to have finally had a breakthrough.

Obviously over the years I have tried: Bike fittings, orthotics, massages, foam rollers and various stretches. I have spent hundreds of pounds with no real improvement.
Things that I have found definitely make a difference to me personally are:

1. A more upright, less agressive riding position.
On my older bikes I had a large amount of bar drop, this more crouched position caused pain in my hips and my knees were forced outward.
Even now, if I ride on the drops for long this still happens. Generally I only ride on the drops for short periods when descending, and not pedalling much.

2. Hip stretches.
On the web there are a wealth of “amazing stretches” for Iliotibial Band Syndrome. I have tried most of these, with limited success. Reading through comments it is clear that some people will find one stretch highly effective where others find it does nothing, so it is clearly a case of finding the ones that work for you.
For anyone interested, I found this the best for me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0e8FPL787E

Whilst searching through these I noticed a lot of people were doing hip stretches, so I started giving these a try. This one specifically: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x30rjVT-TLo
Immediately it was clear my hips very happily turn the feet outward, but to point the feet inward they just didn’t want to know. So I am now trying to educate my hips to twist the other way (inward). It’s hard going, and I am only just starting the journey, but when I am riding I can feel that my knees are tracking closer to my top tube. Normally I would struggle to ride beyond 30 miles (much less if it was hilly) without feeling pain, but lately I have been pushing beyond 40 hilly miles with no pain whatsoever.

Of course in reality this could be a combination of the stretching, increased fitness, better bike position etc etc.
I have tried a lot of things over the years and only now am I making any noticeable progress.
I do find it annoying that all the specialists I have seen, nobody suggested simply increasing hip mobility. Maybe this kind of thing is very difficult to diagnose.

Well, hopefully this might be useful to someone.

bobbymeister

I've used Sidas custom footbeds for years; they give a massive improvement in support and tracking at the knee and hip.
Cyclefit do them in London, Cadence Sport in the midlands and www.fit2ride.cc up in Yorkshire.
Great product.