Garmin GPS

portuguese mike

I'm thinking about getting one of these but i'm not sure which one will best suit my needs.

Basically i want one with an HRM function and a barometric altimeter and i want to be able to program (or download) routes into it that it will then guide me along while i'm riding.

it seems to me that the latest generation - the 605 & 705 are able to show a map on the screen along with the other computer info so appear to be better from a route following point of view - is this the case?

Also what other software do you need to get in order to be able to plan and download routes and/or maps (in fact do you have to download a map in order to program a route) and if so how nuch does it cost.

i'd rather get a 305 if possible as it would be a lot cheaper than one of the newer ones but i'm just not sure it does all i'd want it to.

Any help would much appreciated.

thanks

colint

I've got a 305 and although the new range is probably better, the 305 suits me quite well. The navifgation doesn't follow a traditional map, you enter waypoints and it directs you at each waypoint, ie turn right, straight ahead. I plan the route on Marengo GPS planner and then upload it with GPSBabel, which are both free.

As I say, I'm sure being able to see an actual map would be nice, but the 305 works great and is cheaper

portuguese mike

Thats good to know, thanks.

One more question though, does the 305 give some kind of warning that you are approaching, or have passed, a waypoint or do you need to roughly know when they are coming up and pay attention to the unit?

biking_mongoose

I've got a Garmin 305 too. It does have the HRM function but, I think, it lacks a barametric altimeter. It does give an indication of altitude gainsed/loss but I think this comes from the GPS map data itself.

Top piece of kit though.

You could also check out the Suunto which allows you to add-on functions to the base unit. Quite pricey though

Incidentally, I bought my Garmin in the States while on holiday and paid in dollars what I would have paid in pounds here

colint

portuguese mike wrote:

Thats good to know, thanks.

One more question though, does the 305 give some kind of warning that you are approaching, or have passed, a waypoint or do you need to roughly know when they are coming up and pay attention to the unit?

Yes, it bleeps about 20 -30 seconds before the turn

APIII

...and it gives you a distance countdown to the next waypoint, just incase

Garybee

biking_mongoose wrote:

I've got a Garmin 305 too. It does have the HRM function but, I think, it lacks a barametric altimeter. It does give an indication of altitude gainsed/loss but I think this comes from the GPS map data itself.

Top piece of kit though.

You could also check out the Suunto which allows you to add-on functions to the base unit. Quite pricey though

Incidentally, I bought my Garmin in the States while on holiday and paid in dollars what I would have paid in pounds here

Also have an Edge 305 (which I would replace with the same if it broke). The altimeter is barometric.

NWLondoner

I used mine last week to follow a route.

As long as you zoom in very close it is quite easy to navigate.

Although I did take a turning too early twice (I thought I knew better than the GPS) I was wrong.

What is the best accuracy you have got? Mine has been 12ft but averages to 25-30ft.

Babbsy

I use the basic Garmin etrex GPS unit for navigation (no map just following a pre-designed track, really simple and easy) and a Polar HRM which is bike specific. The separate HRM can be used for other activities - on the turbo, in the gym etc.

portuguese mike

Many thanks all, its sounds like the 305 will be just the job. Now do i really need a cadence sensor.....

kettrinboy

I wouldnt bother with the cadence sensor because most people would pedal at 90 to 100 rpm anyway, nobody judges how well they are going by their cadence do they?I took mine off after a few weeks cos I just didnt need it and its other function of providing a speed reading in the event of lost satelite reception is hardly ever needed, mine only loses signal for a second or two going under bridges etc

Garybee

I'm going to be awkward now and say that I think the cadence sensor is a worthwhile purchase. It does depend on what you are using the unit for though. It's a particularly good bit of kit if you are being coached (makes filling in feedback sheets at the end of the week a doddle). I need the cadence sensor as my coach sets sessions where I will ride intervals at a particularly high or low cadence (50 rpm hill reps or bursts of 130+ rpm).

So i suppose you need to ask yourself what you are going to do with the information. If you don't intend on riding to a particular cadence then it's just useless information really.

SteveR_100Milers

colint wrote:

portuguese mike wrote:

Thats good to know, thanks.

One more question though, does the 305 give some kind of warning that you are approaching, or have passed, a waypoint or do you need to roughly know when they are coming up and pay attention to the unit?

Yes, it bleeps about 20 -30 seconds before the turn

Mine doesnt., but thats when following a course, which I plotted on mapmyride.

How / what do you use to set up waypoints on a route with this countdown feature? Do you have to plot the route on the device to get this to work?

colint

I plan the route with MArengo

http://www.marengo-ltd.com/map2/index.php?route=194

This is a short route as an example, Marengo lets you name the waypoint ie TL, TR etc

I learnt how to do it from this guys website

http://frank.kinlan.co.uk/?page_id=410

really simple once you figure it out. Load the route through GPSBabel, select navigate route and thats it

schlepcycling

SteveR_100Milers wrote:

colint wrote:

portuguese mike wrote:

Thats good to know, thanks.

One more question though, does the 305 give some kind of warning that you are approaching, or have passed, a waypoint or do you need to roughly know when they are coming up and pay attention to the unit?

Yes, it bleeps about 20 -30 seconds before the turn

Mine doesnt., but thats when following a course, which I plotted on mapmyride.

How / what do you use to set up waypoints on a route with this countdown feature? Do you have to plot the route on the device to get this to work?

You can set the distance before a waypoint that the device will warn you that you are approaching a waypoint and if you miss one it tells you on the screen that you've gone off route(it displays 'off course') and also once you're off route how to get back on route. If I remember correctly you download the route onto the device then add this distance warning from within the device.

Theorectically you could be dropped anywhere having no idea where you are, turn your 305 on and choose to do a route and it will navigate you from where you are to the start point of that particular route, so if your have at least 1 route that starts outside you 'should' be able to get home from anywhere by asking it to 'do that route' and it will direct you to the start i.e. home, little tip just in case you every get horrendously lost!.

SteveR_100Milers

There is obvoioulsy a difference in the way that courses and routes are handles and displayed by the device. mapmyride does courses, which have no waypoints, or at least they are not recorded as such (unless I have missed a feature of the programme). From the manual, the only way to make a route is to ride to a known location, mark oit (on the device) and then go the next one. Link them altogether and hey presto there is a route! Either I have completely misunderstood the instruction manual, or it is a ridiculous method to making a route, and (yet again) the only way to generate one is with 3rd party software.....?

portuguese mike

now i'm confused again, what's the difference between a route and a course?

also, apart from being able to view a map are there ant other practical differences between the 305 and the 705?

daniel_b

I'm a little confused too......

I had decided upon:
Maymyride.com to plot the routes, give distances and elevation etc
Save this file as a Garmin Course
Use the bundled Training centre software to export this to the garmin
Use the route to navigate my way round.

From reading Frank Kinlans webpage, it would appear that this is a course, and he seems to say that there will be no directional arrows or beeps, just that it will notify you IF/When you go of course, which seems of limited use to me, as I would prefer an audible signal.

So...it would appear that the method required is to:
Map routes on the Marengo site, naming waypoints as RT or LT for example.
Save this as a gpx file
Install GPSBABEL, export this to the Garmin as a route, ticking both waypoints and routes

Use this to navigate round your route.

A few questions.....

My first method of attack, uses the nicely polished mapmyride, which allows you to 'follow roads'. Marengo doesn't have this function, so inbetween waypoints there is a line plotted as the crow flies, so the distance it tells you you are travelling will be way out, but then I assume as you are uploading your stats later, that this then doesn't matter?
Marengo is listed as free, but I signed up for a 30 day trial - will I lose functionality after this period?

Frank's site seems to suggest that if you are plotting a route with waypoints, that Virtual pertner cannot work, as of course he is riding the route as the crow flies, and will be miles ahead!
A course on the other hand will work, but you won't get the directional beeps, which is a shame, but not a concern if you know your route well enough to not need directional aids.

What would be nice is if you could export a mapmyride file through gpsbabel, but this generated an error for me, as there were no waypoints marked, and MMR doesn't seem to have waypoint functionality.

So the way I see it.
If you want directional aids beep, then you have to use Marengo/GPSBABEL
If you want a concise route, and to be able to use the virtual partner function, then you have to use Mapmyride/Training centre

Can anyone with more expereice of these devices (Mine is a 205) confirm whether I am on the right track (no pun intended), or off on a tangent :roll:

Any pearls of wisdom to share?

Dan

mdg1157

Plot the course in mapmyride, save as a course, (.crs or .tcx file), import to training centre.
You can then bring up the course on the basemap. If you zoom in you can wor out where junctions etc are and can set a coursepoint here, to tell you left or right and other directions. If you set the point a short way before the junction, a box opens telling you which way to turn.
I've plotted couerses and not ridden them for weeks, and have found my way around using this .
Hope this helps a little

Babbsy

Garybee wrote:

I'm going to be awkward now and say that I think the cadence sensor is a worthwhile purchase. It does depend on what you are using the unit for though. It's a particularly good bit of kit if you are being coached (makes filling in feedback sheets at the end of the week a doddle). I need the cadence sensor as my coach sets sessions where I will ride intervals at a particularly high or low cadence (50 rpm hill reps or bursts of 130+ rpm).

So i suppose you need to ask yourself what you are going to do with the information. If you don't intend on riding to a particular cadence then it's just useless information really.

A cadence sensor is useful for new cyclists, as like me when I started this lark, beginners tend to push higher gears at a cadence of 60-80rpm. The cadence sensor helped me achieve a higher cadence. With experience though you can tell by 'feel' what your cadence is so the need is not so great. I still have a cadence sensor on my turbo bike which I can check my rpm's if I need to.

daniel_b

mdg1157 wrote:

Plot the course in mapmyride, save as a course, (.crs or .tcx file), import to training centre.
You can then bring up the course on the basemap. If you zoom in you can wor out where junctions etc are and can set a coursepoint here, to tell you left or right and other directions. If you set the point a short way before the junction, a box opens telling you which way to turn.
I've plotted couerses and not ridden them for weeks, and have found my way around using this .
Hope this helps a little

Hi there,

many thanks for your reply, I will give that a go.

One question, when you say zoom in on the basemap, is this a map within training centre, or is it the result of plotting the route on mapmyride, but again within training centre?

Many thanks

Dan

mdg1157

The basemap in training centre (its very basic, just showing outlines of major roads and rivers)

If you have the route open in mapmyride in another window, you canwork out where junctions etc are on the TC map (theyre pretty obvious, usually showing a right angle or near turn)

daniel_b

Thanks for that MDG,

I see you say a coursepoint opens up a box telling you which way to go, does it provide the 'beep' and countdown of the other method?

Sorry, I know I can find out by trial and error, but one 205 is an anniversary present for my other half, and I can't fit my one on my bike without arousing suspision from her!

That's whay I am trying to use the preceding weeks to find the best method to use it/plot routes, and so I can give it to her and go, right, you need to install X, Y & Z, and then you'll get this result.

Thanks

Dan

mdg1157

I can't remember whether it beeps ,or counts down or not, I just see the junction coming and see which way it tells me to go (althiugh on one ride , when i edited the points in, I put a 'turn left'' when it should have been ''turn right'' and couldn't work out why it was saying I was off course!!

daniel_b

Cheers for that mdg, I'm going to get a couple of routes ready in the method you've highlighted, and then we'll give them a go the first time we use them, which will probably be in just over 2 weeks.

I suppose if your putting in messages, you could also put in motivational ones randomly like 'Speed up!' or 'nice @rse!'

Wish me luck :-)

Dan

SteveR_100Milers

So the trick is to put waypoint notes into a mapmyride course then? Which you can do on mapmyride course as you are plotting it.

To be honest, you dont need a warning or a bleep if you are following a road course, as its obvious from there the line representing the route goes, and you can zoom out to see well ahead. Its accurate enough at a high zoom factor to be able to follow the track around RAB's.

daniel_b

SteveR_100Milers wrote:

So the trick is to put waypoint notes into a mapmyride course then? Which you can do on mapmyride course as you are plotting it.

No, I think from what mdg has been saying, you plot the route as normal on mapmyride, so using 'follow roads' for example, and then export/save as a gpx/crs file.
Then you open it up in Training centre, zoom in nice and close, having the map my ride route for a comparison reference, and then work out what the junctions are on the now imported training centre map, and mark/comment accordingly.

SteveR_100Milers wrote:

To be honest, you dont need a warning or a bleep if you are following a road course, as its obvious from there the line representing the route goes, and you can zoom out to see well ahead. Its accurate enough at a high zoom factor to be able to follow the track around RAB's.

That's good to know, do most people use the map route then, and is there still room for the other data fields?

Cheers

Dan

SteveR_100Milers

I have 4 data fields when using the "map" mode.

I didnt realise that you could mark waypoints in training centre....most of my routes are in free space and dont follow roads such is the crap quality of TC's maps.

Cunobelin

1. THe 305 is a brilliant opeice of kit
2. It is NOT a GPS!

To clarify that...

The 305 is a training aid with limited GPS facilities and comopatibility with mapping software. If yoyu are happy usingthe SportTrack, or Training Centre software then you will be fine, but if you want to converse with mapping software such as Mempory-Map you need additional software or the most up to date versions.

For pure navigation, the GPS option such as an Etrex is better value, but for training the 305 has the Edge (bad pun)

mdg1157

Agree, it is a briliant piece of kit.
It's not designed as a gps, but it does do the job (in a basic way) if you need it to.

Roubaix Rider

Get a cadence sensor, especially if you're going to use a turbo.

The 305 has a 'training indoors' option, so instead of wasting its time hunting for a satellite signal it can use the cadence sensor to suss out how quick the rear wheel is spinning and therefore give you an accurate speed. And cadence of course!

The downside is that I find the cadence sensor uses batteries like no tomorrow. One CR2032 lasts about two to three weeks of usage (although I'm riding 400 to 500 miles per week at the moment so that might have something to do with it).