Betsy and Lance's lawyer going at it hammer & tongs

oily sailor

http://tinyurl.com/3xthbf

(Thanks to cyclingfansanonymous for finding it)

iainf72

She really is a boring tedious woman.

Who cares, love, who cares? So he lied, big deal - What is going after him now proving exactly?

Let's deal with what happening now not what happened years ago.

andyp

iainf72 wrote:

She really is a boring tedious woman.

Who cares, love, who cares? So he lied, big deal - What is going after him now proving exactly?

Let's deal with what happening now not what happened years ago.

It takes two to tango and I think Armstrong's legal team, presumably at the behest of their client, ought to take some of the blame for this ugly (but amusing) spat.

I disagree with your final point, many people involved in Armstrong's success are still active in cycling today and they are helping the omerta culture persist.

LangerDan

It's all a facade. Betsy and Lance were at it like hogs in the back of the Rock & Republic team van while Frankie was outside having a row with Michael Ball.

iainf72

andyp wrote:

I disagree with your final point, many people involved in Armstrong's success are still active in cycling today and they are helping the omerta culture persist.

Who isn't helping it persist? Why pick on Armstrong?

Seriously. Is anyone?

Think about Hincapie -> High Horse. He knows, he knows EVERYTHING. CSC -> Riis knows EVERYTHING about Basso / Hamilton etc.

Ranting on about Armstrong doesn't help anything, nor does concentrating on people associated with him. They were all as bad as we've seen.

jimmythecuckoo

Its better than Eastenders that.

afx237vi

Wow, Tim Henman has become Lance Armstrong's lawyer since giving up tennis? Cool!

afx237vi

By the way, just how sad is it that Betsy Andreu and Lance Armstrong have nothing better to do with their time than slag it out on the comments page of a newspaper that probably has a circulation figure in the hundreds? They need a hobby (shafting an Olsen twin is not a hobby).

Bronzie

afx237vi wrote:

shafting an Olsen twin is not a hobby

Maybe not, but as pastimes go, it's one of the best!

As for the argument that "all that happened ages ago, what's the point of dragging it all up again now".....................well, it didn't work for Marion Jones.

drenkrom

I admire the woman for sticking with what she knows is right in the face of this unassailable machine the name "Lance Armstrong" has become. It's a lost cause for sure, though. Lance paid his lawyer to write up a rebuttal to a post on a blog! I imagine Mr. Herman bills quite a lot of pocket change to write up a post of that length. That 1) someone was somehow monitoring what was said about Armstrong on a blog and 2) that someone told the lawyer to write up a rebuttal and threaten lawsuits has got to be an indicator LA is not sleeping soundly.

As for iain's assertion that this is just a small part of the whole doping story, of course it is. But lying under oath and, even more serious, pressuring others to do the same, is a crime in the USA. If you or I were to try that, we'd be going straight to the big house without passing Go or collecting 200$. Armstrong doped, like everyone else in his time, so be it. Armstrong committed a felony and waltzed right back home. That I have a problem with.

By the way, what is Eastenders? there's been a few references to that here, and the Canadian doesn't get them. Please help!

deejay

iainf72 wrote:

Who isn't helping it persist? Why pick on Armstrong?
.

Why pick on him when he stands there as the greatest TDF winner of all time. Bollox

And I agree with Drenkrom........eastenders (my wife tells me) is a TV soap for sad people.

IMO , All power to Betsy and her convictions and lets have some more people come out of the woodwork
LA's legal man spends all that time on an open forum defending the 7 time ?? and cannot take her to court
Well I don't care how long his post is, it only substantiates her comments.

I love it being all in the States and without a them and us. (european or french) thing.

I just remember watching a big headed Mark 1 Armstrong and then a Mark 2 version that took off up a mountain like a certain cretin did in 96.

LangerDan

drenkrom wrote:

I

By the way, what is Eastenders? there's been a few references to that here, and the Canadian doesn't get them. Please help!

It's just like "Baywatch". Just without the plausible storyline. Or the beautiful people. Or the bay.

Its essentially a series of events you wouldn't believe, happening to people you wouldn't like in a place you wouldn't live.

drenkrom

I feel like I'm really missing out on something!

iainf72

Bronzie wrote:

afx237vi wrote:

shafting an Olsen twin is not a hobby

Maybe not, but as pastimes go, it's one of the best!

As for the argument that "all that happened ages ago, what's the point of dragging it all up again now".....................well, it didn't work for Marion Jones.

My point remains though - Lets say he got punished, what would it prove? How would it help?

Here's a clue, it wouldn't. Not one little bit.

I love the way Ullrich, who did exactly the same (except the winning, obviously) isn't vilified as much, but he's possibly worse because he fooled people into thinking he was nice. And he still gobs in the publics face when asked questions when he was out and out busted. And to make matters worse, Lance has done a lot more for his fellow man than fat boy ever did.

dave_1

iainf72 wrote:

Bronzie wrote:

afx237vi wrote:

shafting an Olsen twin is not a hobby

Maybe not, but as pastimes go, it's one of the best!

As for the argument that "all that happened ages ago, what's the point of dragging it all up again now".....................well, it didn't work for Marion Jones.

My point remains though - Lets say he got punished, what would it prove? How would it help?

Here's a clue, it wouldn't. Not one little bit.

I love the way Ullrich, who did exactly the same (except the winning, obviously) isn't vilified as much, but he's possibly worse because he fooled people into thinking he was nice. And he still gobs in the publics face when asked questions when he was out and out busted. And to make matters worse, Lance has done a lot more for his fellow man than fat boy ever did.

Iain...if the livestrong foundation is built on shaky foundations, then it should be brought down, no???...telling people they can go back to their pre-cancer lives is wrong ,unless it is achieved fairly. It has nothing to do with Jan versus Lance and his wins stand like you imply ... Lance A's totally deserved status as the best grand tour rider since Eddy m stands as everyone did it ...

i disagree with cancer foundations being built if the persona had to resort to the same tactics as everyone else did..so should everyone else! Do you agree with the Lance Armstrong foundation? I agree with 7 TDF wins...I disagree with setting up a foundation when we have reason to wonder like we do now..anyway,,,

iainf72

Dave_1 wrote:

Iain...if the livestrong foundation is built on shaky foundations, then it should be brought down, no???...telling people they can go back to their pre-cancer lives is wrong ,unless it is achieved fairly.

Unless what is achieved fairly?

If Lance was using as a cyclist before he got cancer and then post cancer, the remarkable thing is the recovery from cancer and getting back to the top of the sport.

A good friend of mine's son has been treated for cancer twice now (before the age of 8, not fair) but it's drugs that helped him. His parents got comfort out of LA's story as do others - For me, I can't understand what difference using PED's makes. Even if you never had cancer to reach the top of the sport you NEEDED to take PED's.

Aren't there a couple of stories about Lance haters being helped by the LAF? I think the Fat Cyclist (or a relative) was one.

aurelio_-_banned

iainf72 wrote:

I love the way Ullrich, who did exactly the same (except the winning, obviously) isn't vilified as much...

Eh? It seems to me that Ullrich has been vilified a great deal, especially in Germany, On the other hand Armstrong continues to be feted, especially in the USA, despite the overwhelming amount of evidence showing that his seven wins were achieved via Epo use, a sophisticated blood doping program and god-knows what else.

Why is I Armstrong so disliked? For a clue consider his treatment of people like Bassons and Simeoni, his continual use of high-flying lawyers, threats and intimidation and so on to silence his critics. Also his burning desire to get those seven wins was hardly based on lofty ideals, with Armstrong himself making it clear that when he came back to racing he wanted to humiliate those he felt had written him off, 'pi ss off' the French and so on. His wins also devalue the achievements of far greater riders than himself. Perhaps if he hadn't been so greedy and bent on 'revenge' and had retired after 4 or even 5 wins people wouldn't feel so cheated by him.

Moomaloid

Shame isn't it when the Foundations and everything he has done for Cancer is SO impressive. For me now, thats what he should be remembered for. I was one of the hero worshipper's that had my head in the sand till recently...

All power to Betsy though. A person who's standing by her morals and letting them know that you can't call her liar! Lets see if, as with most of his court battles it ends up settled out of court... just don't understand why he drags it out to then settle...!

Jeff Jones

A lot of people think some or all religion is built on shaky foundations, and yet a lot of other people live their lives by it. It's the same principle, but on a different scale.

So you can argue until you're blue in the face about this, but you probably won't change anyone's mind :-)

bigdawg

before anything else can I just stop a few of the misconceptions about post cancer living.

I had testicular cancer in 1997/8 prior to this I competed nationally at mtb xc. Due to treatment I took about a year out but when I came back I was more determined, and as a result, a better rider. That was 10/11 years ago Im still riding and still a determined rider, during training rides I can honestly say only 2 people have overtaken me up a hill (one of them being matt illingworth), becuase Im still a good climber - would I have been if I didnt have cancer - prob not I was quite a lazy racer before, all my best results came afterwards. Call it arrogance whatever but something suddenyl kicks in that says, no way you didnt spend all that time hooked up to a drip.

Did armstrong take drugs - probably, but he also proved to a lot of people that hey being a cancer survivor doent have to stop you having a life its not something to be ashamed of. BEfore you start trying to bring down LIvestrong (which has helped given hope and offered support to probably millions of people) ask yourself this if it was on a level playing field would he still have won?? BEcause apparently everyone he beat was doing the same thing.

Oh and during my treatment I refused EPO and steroids (they actually made me feel sick).

Going back to the original link if all thats written there is the truth it appears BA is as guilty of perjury as anyone else there, she didnt seem in any hurry to question some of those statements.

meagain

Don'y they drone on and on...to what purpose? Who cares? And I thought my life was boring.

deejay

RIIS was finally knocked off his pedestal as being a great man but only after he had made his millions

The Armstrong saga will run and run and with Betsy being so bold then others from the inside may come forward.

Walk in any sports bar in the States and on the mention of LA (It will come out because my sport is "Cycling") and the reaction to him is not very flattering. At first it surprised me !

As the lad in a post above states that he was a fan until he learnt better.

Go Betsy go, and give him hell. The subject won't go away.

dave_1

HIS TDF wins should be respected...As should Ullrich's wins and 2nds at Grand tours...it's the sports cred which is to question...not the riders wins-it had to be done this way at this level...there was not a peleton of two speeds in the 90s, it was a peleton of 1 speed as it was so widespread. Perhaps it is now a peleton of two speeds as more refuse to dope?

As I say, mixed feelings about the livestrong foundation...but not about his wins

Moomaloid

It seems to me, that the people who say they don't care, and wish i would go away, are the same people who obviously don't care about the sport on a professional level, and would rather bury their heads until it all goes away... just an opinion.

And Dave, i've gone the other way and lost respect for his wins. Not totally because its well documented the outrageous training he would put himself through and yes, he did push himself more than any other, but all those wonderful memories are tainted for me now, and i have to admit that i feel uncomfortable watching old footage now.

flattythehurdler

I think that the real problem with LA is not the drug taking. It seems obvious that he was a thoroughly professional and orgsanized athlete, and left nothing to chance, including judicious use of chemicals.
The main problem is that, despite his cancer work he is a bit of a narcissist who gets off on the adulation (his NY marathon attempts were hardly low profile). I find his reported treatment of Bassons and Simoni worse in many ways than his use of Dr Ferrari, without which he possibly couldn't have made a living in cycling.
LA didn't create the culture of PED's but he did, perhaps, raise the bar.
I wonder if he feels any guilt at all whenever unexplained deaths of young cyclists are reported?

iainf72

flattythehurdler wrote:

I wonder if he feels any guilt at all whenever unexplained deaths of young cyclists are reported?

So if Wiggins inspired someone to take up cycling, and that person got hit by a bus, Wiggins should feel guilty?

bigdawg

Moomaloid wrote:

It seems to me, that the people who say they don't care, and wish i would go away, are the same people who obviously don't care about the sport on a professional level, and would rather bury their heads until it all goes away... just an opinion.

And Dave, i've gone the other way and lost respect for his wins. Not totally because its well documented the outrageous training he would put himself through and yes, he did push himself more than any other, but all those wonderful memories are tainted for me now, and i have to admit that i feel uncomfortable watching old footage now.

but are there any cyclists you can watch without feeling uncomfortable?? You cant slate armstrong and not every winner in the last 20 years....

And if you want to disregard his wins then you have to do the same again for everyone else, and weve no way on this planet of finding out who was the first clean rider of the 1999 tour...

dave_1

Moomaloid wrote:

It seems to me, that the people who say they don't care, and wish i would go away, are the same people who obviously don't care about the sport on a professional level, and would rather bury their heads until it all goes away... just an opinion.

And Dave, i've gone the other way and lost respect for his wins. Not totally because its well documented the outrageous training he would put himself through and yes, he did push himself more than any other, but all those wonderful memories are tainted for me now, and i have to admit that i feel uncomfortable watching old footage now.

Top riders were forced to dope...they had no choice,,,,the sport was a sick joke...we have to accept this and repsect their tarnished wins as still relatively legit
But i understand you...his 7 TDF wins are hard to believe...2 or 3 TDF wins, 5 over a decade....but 7 straight wins...beyond belief . Someone somewhere has knowledge of his secret and it is therefore still possible he'll be brought down... suggested he achieved a 30%-40% improvement in oxygen consumptiion

Listen to this clip

http://j.b5z.net/i/u/2132106/m/gregstef.mp3

rdaviesb

Betsy just won't let it go, and needs to learn that vague, reconstructed recollections (which are sometimes known as dreams) do not constitute evidence. Her testimony reveals her, as do her rambling rants. I've no idea about Lance, but I do hope he was clean. The simple fact is that he went to hell and back and regardless of his sporting success thereafter, we need to remember this.

aurelio_-_banned

rdaviesb wrote:

Betsy just won't let it go, and needs to learn that vague, reconstructed recollections (which are sometimes known as dreams) do not constitute evidence.

'Dreams' are not usually shared by a room full of other people!

bigdawg

according to the link no one will back up betsy's version of that conversation. In court even she seemed to have trouble remembering it..

If there are so many people out there that new so much about all this why has no one else come forward I cant belive for one minute they're all 'scared'.