Got a Garmin - alternatives to Training Centre software

stevebendall

Got my Garmin 305 Edge at the weekend and really pleased with its ease of use and functions

I've loaded Garmins own Training Centre software that it comes bundled with, and have to say so far it does just what I need it to

However, I hear so many comments on this forum about other alternative software, so can you let me know what you use any why you changed, ie. what extra functions you can do that you can't in Training Centre etc.

I'm not interested in creating maps to upload to the Garmin, I just want to record the training I do, analyse each individual session, and summarise my training over a period of time, and see where I've been on a map - how do the others do this better, or what other functions are there?

Mog Uk

http://www.zonefivesoftware.com/SportTracks/

Far more user friendly, customise, map overlays ( google earth ) better reports....

popette

I use motionbased more than I used the training centre. www.motionbased.com
you upload garmin data to motionbased and it provdies you with every possible combination of data about your ride. I think it is garmin's website and it's free for an account (for which you can view your previous 10 uploaded rides). I have signed up to it though because I've found it so useful.

HTH

stevebendall

Thanks, but you both talk about customising - what do you customise that Training Centre doesn't already provide

Training Centre also gives export to Google Earth etc

MotionBased is no good if it only shows the last 10 sessions, so convince me why the extra subscription is going to give me extra features that Training Centre doesn't

Sorry, not being pedantic, but I've seen so many comments that there are better applications, but would like to be convinced by peoples experiences before I fill my PC with another 5 or so applications to try out, so actual examples of what extra functions you use would be useful

hammerite

I agree with Mog, Sporttracks is excellent, and it's free!

I've used it now for about 4 years (with a Forerunner not an Edge) and never had any problems.

schlepcycling

If you use a mac then Ascent is good as the training centre software for the mac is terrible.

http://www.montebellosoftware.com

Ed Moses

Another vote for Ascent on the Mac!

popette

stevebendall wrote:

Thanks, but you both talk about customising - what do you customise that Training Centre doesn't already provide

Training Centre also gives export to Google Earth etc

MotionBased is no good if it only shows the last 10 sessions, so convince me why the extra subscription is going to give me extra features that Training Centre doesn't

Sorry, not being pedantic, but I've seen so many comments that there are better applications, but would like to be convinced by peoples experiences before I fill my PC with another 5 or so applications to try out, so actual examples of what extra functions you use would be useful

Motionbased: you have a summary page which shows all your rides, date, moving time, distance, speed, hr, elevation. You can then click on each individual ride to drill down to more data (in much the same way as you can with training centre). Each ride can be named and comments attached to it - I record how I was feeling, any issues, weather etc.
You click on the ride you want more detail on and you're presented with a summary page of the ride. This gives more general info about the ride, weather conditions from nearest weather station, wind speeds, temps - it also shows a decent map of your ride powered by google maps; far better than the training centre. You can then drill down to see more data about your time/distance/speed/elevation/heart rate/laps/weather. You can view graphs of all of the above vs all of the above (pretty much). You can view your average speed climbing, descending and on flat etc.
You can export your rides as gpx, hst and crs.
I haven't been using Garmin for long so it's possible that the training centre may give you much of the above functionality. It just looks crap and isn't the most intuitive piece of software IMO. I want to download a gpx from it and import that into memory map and I can only seem to export all my courses in one go to a CRS database file, which memory map doesn't appear to recognise. I just instantly got along with motionbased and didn't with training centre.
Not really trying to convince you to pay cash to join motionbased though. I just preferred it. 8)

SteveR_100Milers

Does motionbased upload direct to the garmin device or do you need to do this via Training Centre. From what I can see TC is the problem with this system.

popette

hi steve, motionbased talks direct to you garmin.
I saw your other note on the other thread - the instructions are pretty pathetic aren't they?
I haven't got much time now but later on I'll try to get the gpx of the gran fondo (is that the one you were trying with?) and get it onto my garmin. I'll pm you because I might be able to send you something to help with that.
Off out now
ps. just made flapjack full of seeds and nuts - no way am i bonking tomorrow.

popette

just tried to upload the gpx of gran fondo to garmin. It failed at first when I uploaded it as xml using gpsbabel. I saved it as a gpx file and it uploaded ok then. (that gpx appears to be nonsense though - it starts in london!)
I have looked at training centre and can't work out how to import a gpx and upload to garmin. Training centre isn't great.
I just looked on motionbased faqs and at this moment in time, you can't upload from motionbased to your garmin. An outbox functionality will be added shortly.
Steve, what are you using to create your maps/routes?

SteveR_100Milers

I use mapmyride.com export in .crs (course) file and import into training centre. Uploads into the device from there. I cannot import gpx files into TC either.
am confused a bit now pop by your last 2 posts - can you download a route/course direct from motionbased.com straight into your garmin device or do you need to use TC to "translate"?

popette

quote="SteveR_100Milers"]I use mapmyride.com export in .crs (course) file and import into training centre. Uploads into the device from there. I cannot import gpx files into TC either.
am confused a bit now pop by your last 2 posts - can you download a route/course direct from motionbased.com straight into your garmin device or do you need to use TC to "translate"?[/quote]

Hiya, yes, I see why i confused you - soz.
Right, you can upload from Garmin direct to motionbased without needing TC.
At this moment, it appears motionbased will not send files direct back to your Garmin (but the functionality will be added soon based on what i've read).
What I do is I use GPSbabel to upload gpx files to my Garmin.

I create my routes as GPX files in memory map and Upload route to garmin using GPSbabel. Following the ride I upload all the ride data direct to motionbased.

Does that make more sense. It sounds a bit complicated but it's actually quite easy when you start doing it.

SteveR_100Milers

No that makes perfect sense. And when you plan a route in motionbased, does the resultant route in your Garmin give you turn warnings?

In mapmyride, you set waypoints which I hope also show as such on the garmin when doing the course, else its pretty pointless from a satnav point of view. The problem with mapmyride is that it slows down the longer the distance (after 30 miles its a real pain the ass) especially when you use the follow roads option. IN essence its like using a (slow) web-based version of microsoft autoroute in that it plts the road routes from your inserted waypoints. How it works on the garmin on the bike I have no idea yet. Anyone?

If motionbased is faster then I'l try that aswell. Are you going to send me the gpsbabel software????

popette

I've been confusing again - I do my mapping in memory map, not motionbased. But yes, everything else you say is right - I do get the beeps and advance warnings of turnings. Another mapping app online (free) is marengo - might be worth trying if mapmyride is slow. Seems to be specifically for gps mapping.
gpsbabel can be downloaded from gpsbabel.org I think

hambones

I've just got back from my first ride plotted on Mapmyride and loaded onto my Garmin. Frankly it would be extremely difficult to get lost following the direction arrow and course route displayed on the bottom half of the screen. Seeing as you can easily alter the view distance from 100m above the road to many kms it's not possible to miss a turn. Realising this there's simply no need to insert any turn warnings or text.

popette

I didn't even realise that you could do that on garmin. I might give that a go on one of my well known routes to test it out. thanks hambones

SteveR_100Milers

Thanks for the feedback bones, just don't try mapping a route for LEJOG using mapmyride.... :roll:

mdg1157

Another vote here for sport tracks, been using it since xmas 2006, logging over 6000miles.
One thing I have noticed is that the max speed recorded on sport tracks is always well down on what i've actually reached.
there is loads of scope for analysing rides, you can keep a check of the miles on all your bikes (if you use more than one), log how long components last etc.
I use TC just for uploading tracks to the edge if I'm planning a tour or a ride I don't know
A good route generator is mapmyride, save the route created as a .crs, or .tcx file, load into TC and send to the device.

chill888

Another vote for Sporttracks - just excellent - have used it for almost three years. Feature rich.

There are a few good online sites.

One feature that any good online site should have is an easy to use Friend feature and an easy to use "Find Routes" near me.

I find Sanoodi.com excellent for this and have actually used other peoples routes a few time on my Garmin.

I also like bikemap.de,allsportsgps.com and gpsies.com

Motionbased has barely changed in 3 years - and has fallen behind. It's Tabbed set of info is silly - it is just there to look like there is more info than there is. Just look at the Speed, Distance, and elevation tabs and tell me why it's not on the same page.

It is lousy as a diary and has been promising the ability to add workouts manually forever.

It still doesn't let you embed Google Map of a ride on a web site (unlike dozens of other sites.

Motionbased is a shame as they have such a large captive initial audience as anyone that buys a garmin goes there first. To top it off they charge

Their impending new release is way behind schedule and will likely fall short

popette

hi chill
I wish I'd seen your reply before I'd bought motionbased (for a year!). Going from Training Centre to Motionbased seemed like a massive improvement but sounds like there are much better things out there. Is sporttracks free?
Popette

chill888

yes sporttracks is free although he accepts donations

hambones

I like the look of Sporttracks and downloaded it unfortunately even though I'm running XP it wouldn't install because I haven't got .NET 2 or something!??!?!?! Any ideas?

stevebendall

hambones wrote:

I like the look of Sporttracks and downloaded it unfortunately even though I'm running XP it wouldn't install because I haven't got .NET 2 or something!??!?!?! Any ideas?

If you run Windows Update it should find and install Windows Framework .NET automatically

Thanks for the feedback on the others. Must admit a friend uses SportsTracks, and I do like the idea that its free, was just trying to suss out what extra I'd get by using that over and above Training Centre. Maybe I'll give it a go

Can anyone tell me if I use ST does the Garmin load directly to that, or do I still load to TC first then export to ST

APIII

You can load direct to Sporttracks - you can delete TC!

SteveR_100Milers

Just installed sporttracks, looks very good.

So now I need 3 pieces of software:

1. Mapmyride.com to generate new courses
2. Training Centre to import these new courses into the Garmin device
3. Sporttracks to analyse ride history etc

So if any developers from Garmin read these posts then why cant all this functionality be provided as one nice seamless integrated package, especially when the price of the unit is not cheap. I have a Timex Triathlon Bodylink HRM, which includes a GPS receiver and data logger software. It all connects together well, it always works when you connect everything (within the normal expectations and constraints of wireless and satellite technology) and I can run it on 2 PC's to make sure data is backed up. All my training history is well presented, can export images and data very easily. For me the garmin is almost ruined as a product because its extremely poorly thought out software, and lack of integration. The fact that some freeware designer has something that is orders of magnitude better than the OE supplied stuff says a lot about the lack of ambition for the product, either that or the developers are just plain stupid. It's really frustrating that something potentially so useful is so damn difficult to use when it really needn't be.

hammerite

mdg1157 wrote:

One thing I have noticed is that the max speed recorded on sport tracks is always well down on what i've actually reached.

I think this is down to pace smoothing. The garmin will only store data so many points per minute (or distance) so while on screen you may see a faster pace, it stores an average over the two points in time/distance. When this gets uploaded to Sporttracks it takes the data it has, carries out calculations but your max will always be the average max between these two points.

SteveR_100Milers

You can change the smaple frequency of the device from "smart" to 1Hz, which might be better for capturing a transient speed.

mdg1157

Anyone know whether the new garmin connect software is going to expand to cover anything other than forerunners??
I thought I read somewhere that it was combining with motionbased, and would be free.

daniel_b

SteveR_100Milers wrote:

Just installed sporttracks, looks very good.

So now I need 3 pieces of software:

1. Mapmyride.com to generate new courses
2. Training Centre to import these new courses into the Garmin device
3. Sporttracks to analyse ride history etc

Well I took the plunge, after ploughing through many posts on here, and reviews online, and generous assistance from Popette, and have gone for the 205. I already use and have rides mapped in mapmyride, so that will require a 'save as .crs' seemingly only.
I just installed Sporttracks, and though I have nothing to put into it, it seems fairly well made and intuitive.

So that, in my eyes is only 2 pieces of software, as MMR is web based, so if that does the job, I'll be very pleased 8)

I still haven't quite figured out which is best, or how you get the map image, or arrows, a bleep and a countdown - I hope it will become clear once I get it!

Dan

sallamar

chill888 wrote:

Another vote for Sporttracks - just excellent - have used it for almost three years. Feature rich.

There are a few good online sites.

One feature that any good online site should have is an easy to use Friend feature and an easy to use "Find Routes" near me.

I find Sanoodi.com excellent for this and have actually used other peoples routes a few time on my Garmin.

I also like bikemap.de,allsportsgps.com and gpsies.com

Motionbased has barely changed in 3 years - and has fallen behind. It's Tabbed set of info is silly - it is just there to look like there is more info than there is. Just look at the Speed, Distance, and elevation tabs and tell me why it's not on the same page.

It is lousy as a diary and has been promising the ability to add workouts manually forever.

It still doesn't let you embed Google Map of a ride on a web site (unlike dozens of other sites.

Motionbased is a shame as they have such a large captive initial audience as anyone that buys a garmin goes there first. To top it off they charge

Their impending new release is way behind schedule and will likely fall short

Try cyclogz.com. Apart from a simpler/faster upload, it also lets you create rides manually, and has a ride diary built in. You can also embed a map with or without charts in other web sites.

Disclaimer: I am a cyclist, and created Cyclogz.com since I did not like the alternatives. This site is in alpha and new features are being added.