Training to ride cobbles

notanotherusername

Hi there,

I am planning to do the Tour of Flanders sportive (140km - so not the entire thing) in April. I am building up my general fitness and plan to get some specific training in to help me up the short sharp hills on the route.

One thing I am not sure about is whether I need to do anything specific in terms of cycling on cobbles. All my riding is on-road and there aren't that many cobbles where I live (although the state of some of the roads...!).

Do I need to do anything in particular or should I just concentrate on making sure I am fit to get me around?

Any advice much appreciated.

Stephen

Anonymous

2 Nuns ride down a cobbled street........

mm1

I have found Sunday club runs enough to get round the 140 version of Flanders (all the fun without the boring slog up to the North Sea). Maybe a good idea to do some climbing intervals if you have some short steep climbs to practice on, but definitely a good idea to be used to riding in a group as RVV can get a bit crowded. On the cobbles, just relax.

dave_1

notanotherusername wrote:

Hi there,

I am planning to do the Tour of Flanders sportive (140km - so not the entire thing) in April. I am building up my general fitness and plan to get some specific training in to help me up the short sharp hills on the route.

One thing I am not sure about is whether I need to do anything specific in terms of cycling on cobbles. All my riding is on-road and there aren't that many cobbles where I live (although the state of some of the roads...!).

Do I need to do anything in particular or should I just concentrate on making sure I am fit to get me around?

Any advice much appreciated.

Stephen

I'd suggest weight lifting squats for your legs as the secret of the cobbles is turning massive gears as fast as you can ...keeping your pace fast enough that you're bouncing lightly.....as the slower i got, the bigger the bounce, the lower you'd sink in...the slower you'd get...the more tired you get ...the more bumpy they get...the stronger you are the less bumpy they feel. It's a vicious circle when you start to tire and slow...just feels much worse..and stays hard

vermooten

I did nothing special last year for the Tour of Flanders, and it was fine. If you want to replicate the effect of the cobbles then to find a cattle grid that's a mile long and has a 20% gradient at the top. The cobbles made me grin like an idiot, and they also made me go "ooo that hurts" the next day.

(PS the 265km route is the one to do!)

ColinJ

Dave_1 wrote:

keeping your pace fast enough that you're bouncing lightly.....as the slower i got, the bigger the bounce, the lower you'd sink in...the slower you'd get...the more tired you get ...the more bumpy they get...the stronger you are the less bumpy they feel. It's a vicious circle when you start to tire and slow...just feels much worse..and stays hard

Yes, from personal experience, I'd say that you're right. Not that I've ever ridden a cobbled classic, mind you - I just happen to live on a little cobbled Yorkshire street!

When I come home from a short ride still feeling frisky, I tend to power my way over the cobbles in a biggish gear and feel nothing more than a moderate drumming through the wheels.

If I've done a long ride and feel tired, I can't stand the slow thud-thud-thud as I limp over the individual stones so intead I go to my back door via a 20% climb on a smooth surface.

The fact that a tired rider prefers to tackle a 20% climb rather than get battered bouncing over cobbles should give you an idea of how bad it feels :shock: !

wheeler585

Hi im riding flanders this year cant wait!! Ive been told the best thing to do when riding over the cobbles is to let the bike find its own way over the cobbles. Meaning dont grip the bars and be all tense,just hold the bars loosely and let the bike have its own mind and guide you over!! Oh yeah and double bar tape your bars for extra cushion,and cable tie everything!! Goodluck!!

andyp

A good tip I had was to run your tyres at a lesser pressure than you would normally. Peter van Petegem runs his tyres at 5 bar (approx 72 psi) for Flanders. If you pump them up much harder than that you'll be bounced around all over the place.

I'd also go for at least a 25 mm tyre (or if you're budget allows invest in a pair of Vittoria Open Pave tyres).

notanotherusername

Thanks for all the responses. Sounds like I am more or less on track with just building up my strength to keep my pace up and doing the hill climbs.

mm1 - thanks for the tip on group riding. I go out on my local CTC club runs so that might help
Vermooten - I know I should be doing the 265km - but maybe next year!

Stephen

Bronzie

wheeler585 wrote:

Oh yeah and double bar tape your bars for extra cushion

Frankly that's overkill for Flanders - maybe for Roubaix. Like AndyP says, run some 25mm tyres at lower pressure than normal.

I found the hardest section of pave on the 140km route to be the flattish section ("Kirkstrasse"?) fairly early on. My heart rate went thro' the roof and I was only doing 13mph - I think I hit every cobble. If you can go a bit faster, you only hit every 2nd one! Secret on the flat I think is to maintain your speed from the tarmac and get a big gear rolling, but easier said than done when your bike is trying to burrow into your sphincter.

Biggest problem on the climbs is crowding and maintaing traction - if you get stopped by the riders in front, you can forget about trying to get going again. In the wet I think they are nigh on impossible but I only rode last year's (dry). It's a big help if you can grind a gear round whilst staying sat in the saddle as you don't lose traction so easily. You could try some seated climbing in a gear that's just a bit too big to get the technique I think.

Toks

Dave_1 wrote:

I'd suggest weight lifting squats for your legs as the secret of the cobbles is turning massive gears as fast as you can

If the secret is to turn massive gears as quick as you can; then its probably worth increasing your aerobic and metabolic fitness so that long term you'll be to turn bigger gears as quick as you can.

Jeff Jones

Bronzie wrote:

I found the hardest section of pave on the 140km route to be the flattish section ("Kirkstrasse"?) fairly early on. My heart rate went thro' the roof and I was only doing 13mph - I think I hit every cobble. If you can go a bit faster, you only hit every 2nd one! Secret on the flat I think is to maintain your speed from the tarmac and get a big gear rolling, but easier said than done when your bike is trying to burrow into your sphincter.

Maybe it was the first section at Doorn-Eine after about 125km? That's a little rougher than the rest of them. The 3km section at Mater-Kerkgate (km 160) is hard as well, 'cos it's slightly uphill.

As for riding over cobbles, I think you need a pretty firm grip on the bars - not a death grip, of course, but one that will prevent your hands/forearms getting too much vibration. I tend to ride a pretty direct line. If I let the bike choose its way I'd probably end up in the field. You've also got to plan your trajectory well in advance so you don't have to make sharp turns to get around slower people.

Belgian cobbles aren't too severe compared to the ones you find in Paris-Roubaix, but be prepared for sore forearms/wrists. Padded bar tape and fatter tyres will help reduce this. Depends on how much pain you want to put up with :-)

Biggest problem on the climbs is crowding and maintaing traction - if you get stopped by the riders in front, you can forget about trying to get going again. In the wet I think they are nigh on impossible but I only rode last year's (dry). It's a big help if you can grind a gear round whilst staying sat in the saddle as you don't lose traction so easily. You could try some seated climbing in a gear that's just a bit too big to get the technique I think.

Yes that's right - in the saddle is best, and look for the smooth gutters on some of the climbs. The last time I did it, the Koppenberg was both wet and crowded. I got halfway up and there was no way I could keep riding. Then I managed to snap my chain on the Berendries, repaired it, but decided to walk up the steepest bit of the Muur for fear of snapping it again.

I don't know what the best preparation for cobbles is in the UK. Mountain biking, probably.

Good luck and enjoy the ride.

Cajun

Polycarbonate elbow pads and knee pads...

Blonde

Depends hat bike you ride. Steel frames do absorb shock well, as ii assume does Titanium. A decent fork and wheel build will help too. Dont let tio much pressure out the tyres for proper cobbles or you risk getting stuck between them (face plant optional). Going up steep cobbled hills is the most awkward as you're more likely to get stuck - you just have to ride as fast as you can over them. I don't think you can 'train' for them as such - it's more a question of practice (technique) rather than training or fitness.

Ed Moses

Thanks for the info in this thread - just what I need to cheer me up as I plan for the Paris Roubaix Sportive!

I figure ride had and fast back to the hotel for Red Wine and Ibuprofen

dave_1

Toks wrote:

Dave_1 wrote:

I'd suggest weight lifting squats for your legs as the secret of the cobbles is turning massive gears as fast as you can

If the secret is to turn massive gears as quick as you can; then its probably worth increasing your aerobic and metabolic fitness so that long term you'll be to turn bigger gears as quick as you can.

It's been years since I did the cobbles or races...so am happy to be corrected..Does anyone remember Stever Bauer's stealth bike at Motorola circa 1993? The low and far back seat position was not flawed...but the bike looked no so good


So, advice is ride fast as poss to achieve glancing blows on the tyre, avoid sinking in as slowing does, also lower seat than normal ?, and low cadence is my advice to stop you bouncing up and down as that makes the bounce on the cobbles worse eh? Look at the huge gears Duclos used when he won

Croxted Avenger

andyp wrote:

A good tip I had was to run your tyres at a lesser pressure than you would normally. Peter van Petegem runs his tyres at 5 bar (approx 72 psi) for Flanders. If you pump them up much harder than that you'll be bounced around all over the place.

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I think thats fine if you're running tubs but on clinchers I would worry that'd take me to pinch flat land.

notanotherusername

Gosh - thanks for all the help. looks like I have got some serious training to do - and some serious purchasing to do. Those tyres look good.

Interesting about turning the bigger gears - I usually spin quite a lot so may need to modify my technique a little.

I'll be riding on a steel frame which should help absorb some of the worst shocks.

One other thing - after the climbs there will be the descents, which sound scary. My usual descending technique on sharp drops is to sit as far back as possible to put weight on the back wheel but on cobbles will I lose steering??

Cheers

Stephen

redddraggon

From what I've seen of Pro races cobbles look scary when riding in a bunch.

One of the races I saw the highlights to, it was a dry day, cobbled descent and riders were losing bottles out of their cages because of the bumps, other riders were then hitting the bottles making the dry cobbles suddenly wet and slippery causing more than a few awful looking crashes.

Faceplanting cobbles, descending at 30+mph looks scary.

Bronzie

notanotherusername wrote:

One other thing - after the climbs there will be the descents, which sound scary. My usual descending technique on sharp drops is to sit as far back as possible to put weight on the back wheel but on cobbles will I lose steering??

There are no steep cobbled descents on the 140km route - certainly nothing like this carnage:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXhWg8d4T28

There is a long shallow cobbled downhill early on that will have you bouncing around, but just ride it like an MTB descent as you suggest (weight back, bum just off the saddle and let your legs absorbs the bumps).