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Clearing up the fcking mess that is the UK!

wildmoustachewildmoustache Posts: 4,010
edited February 2008 in Campaign
What would your prescription be???

Here are some thoughts in no particular order ...

1. Stop the massive regional redistribution that goes on ... let Londoners (and others) have what they pay in tax back through public services.

2. Encourage people to go where the jobs are ... rather than endlessly pi55ing our taxes over estates with no jobs, no hope and having an open doors immigrant policy.

3. Return to traditional teaching methods, but with an emphasis on today's most employable skills (negotiating, numeracy, literacy, powerpoint etc.)

4. Close public sector DB pensions to further accruals. For that matter private sector as well. Encourage more labour mobility and stop bleeding the taxpayer.

5. Be honest about local government finance ... stop wasting cash on well meaning censored and stop going after people with £400 fines who park a foot outside a parking space etc.

6. Referendums ... local and national. You never know, people might just take an interest.

7. More police who actually aren't afraid to police, enforce the law and use methods that work like zero tolerance. As many prison places as we need.

8. Withdraw from EU convention on human rights. We can right our own if we need one.

9. Build more homes. The right sort of homes in the right places. Engineer a gradual decline in house prices relative to wages.

10. Control immigration. Not no immigration, but not open door free-for-all.

I could go on for ever. Haven't even mentioned the car yet. What are your thoughts???
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Posts

  • I think we need to get rid of the adversarial party political system.

    Every govornment policy, good or bad is crucified by the opposition (and press) so it ends up being a wishy washy waste of time.

    We need a political system which encourages politicians to work together and put the interests of their country before those of themselves and their parties.

    Most of this countries ills are due to weak and incompetent govornment. A decent govornment would have resolved most of our problems years ago.

    I would like to see a box on the election ballot paper for people to tick if they are unhappy with all the political parties. So objectors like me can have a vote too. They might then get a better turn out at the next election.
  • I think we need to get rid of the adversarial party political system.

    Every govornment policy, good or bad is crucified by the opposition (and press) so it ends up being a wishy washy waste of time.

    We need a political system which encourages politicians to work together and put the interests of their country before those of themselves and their parties.

    Most of this countries ills are due to weak and incompetent govornment. A decent govornment would have resolved most of our problems years ago.

    I would like to see a box on the election ballot paper for people to tick if they are unhappy with all the political parties. So objectors like me can have a vote too. They might then get a better turn out at the next election.


    got to say i disagree with you there pieinthesky ... i think working together would mean even more daft policies got through as no-one criticised them.

    i think most of the problems of this country are due to the people who live here ... stating the obvious really but people like to move the blame onto "systems" etc.
  • ParkeyParkey Posts: 303
    There's an old saying

    In a democracy, the population gets the leaders that they deserve.

    Make of that what you will.
    "A recent study has found that, at the current rate of usage, the word 'sustainable' will be worn out by the year 2015"
  • Parkey wrote:
    There's an old saying

    In a democracy, the population gets the leaders that they deserve.

    Make of that what you will.

    yes i know, i just don't much care for the population! I think a lot of cyclists feel like that though.
  • haha! :lol:
  • squiredsquired Posts: 1,153
    A big problem with this country is that we have so many households outside the south east with very little money. This article is very interesting, highlighting the focus of money in the south east and conversely the lack elsewhere:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7193904.stm

    If the money generated in the south east was kept there it would be amazing. Imagine what could be done to the trains, the emergency services, etc. This would attract more business, generating more wealth. The thing is that this will never happen as the parties have to get elected by the whole population. Labour don't really need to worry about the south east, as it is the rest of the uk, particularly the north, which puts them in power. The south east is just their cash cow to milk as much as possible.

    Democracy works when the voting population is intelligent, but unfortunately the majority of our voting population isn't. They aren't intelligent to understand how to eat properly, how much exercise to do, the impact of driving everywhere, not recycling, etc. They think as far as number one and that is it. Party X wants to give single people more tax breaks, but party y wants to give people with 3 children more. Voter Z has three children so his preference is party y. Party X's policies may be better overall for the country, but voter Z doesn't see past his/her own interests.

    Look at the current campaigning for London Mayor. Red Ken has a policy for extending free travel for pensioners. Personally I agree, but most working people will ignore that policy. The pensioners however may be swayed to vote for him on the back of it, even if his other policies are pretty average.

    A major thing we need to do in this society is to find a way to withdraw people from celebrity worship - both of the individuals and the lifestyle they lead. I think this is a major problem. Kids no longer have the ambition to be a doctor or policeman. Boys want to be a footballer, and girls want to "be famous" or be a "WAG". When the future of this country has those ideals the future is dim.
  • squired wrote:
    A big problem with this country is that we have so many households outside the south east with very little money. This article is very interesting, highlighting the focus of money in the south east and conversely the lack elsewhere:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7193904.stm

    If the money generated in the south east was kept there it would be amazing. Imagine what could be done to the trains, the emergency services, etc. This would attract more business, generating more wealth. The thing is that this will never happen as the parties have to get elected by the whole population. Labour don't really need to worry about the south east, as it is the rest of the uk, particularly the north, which puts them in power. The south east is just their cash cow to milk as much as possible.

    Democracy works when the voting population is intelligent, but unfortunately the majority of our voting population isn't. They aren't intelligent to understand how to eat properly, how much exercise to do, the impact of driving everywhere, not recycling, etc. They think as far as number one and that is it. Party X wants to give single people more tax breaks, but party y wants to give people with 3 children more. Voter Z has three children so his preference is party y. Party X's policies may be better overall for the country, but voter Z doesn't see past his/her own interests.

    Look at the current campaigning for London Mayor. Red Ken has a policy for extending free travel for pensioners. Personally I agree, but most working people will ignore that policy. The pensioners however may be swayed to vote for him on the back of it, even if his other policies are pretty average.

    A major thing we need to do in this society is to find a way to withdraw people from celebrity worship - both of the individuals and the lifestyle they lead. I think this is a major problem. Kids no longer have the ambition to be a doctor or policeman. Boys want to be a footballer, and girls want to "be famous" or be a "WAG". When the future of this country has those ideals the future is dim.

    I respectfully disagree with you on the regional redistribution. I think it's a dependency that ultimately does neither the beneficiary not the benefactor (enforced benefactor!) any good. Take it away and people will go where the jobs are and ... yes... learn to stand on their own two feet. The something for nothing culture is hugely damaging for many areas of this country I believe.

    Disagree that labour don't have to worry about south east ... they have many seats in london. I predict that london will be a decisive factor in a labour defeat at the next election.

    you're right on the WAGs! Personally I'm happy to see them all censored jobbed up, as long as I'm not bloody funding it !!! I'd rather spend the hard earned on carbon componentry
  • Is it really such a mess though? I wonder if we've got it so easy that we look for things to complain about (and if you read The Mail, Express or Telegraph you don't have to look too hard).

    Unless you're over 82, you are probably a member of the first generation of Brits that has never been forced to fight in a war.

    Your species has been around for about 100,000 years, but you've been lucky enough to have been born at the end of a 150 year period during which life expectancy in your country has doubled.

    Unlike your great grandparents, you live without the fear of going hungry. You are more likely to die from overeating.

    The biggest worry facing many of us on a daily basis is what cycling related product we should spend our disposable income on.

    Statistically, immigrants bring more wealth to our economy than they take (a recent Despatches programme researched this information - it had never been done before).
    Unless you are a member of a sealed Ancient Briton community that has been untouched for over 2000 years, you have immigrant blood coursing through your veins.
    We are all, at the very least, part Scandinavian/German/French/Irish/Roman.
    Our national food, for example,(even if you ignore chicken tikka masala) is fish and chips. A traditional east-european Jewish dish.
    From my own experience, there are far more indigenous loafers in the UK than imported loafers - most immigrants just want a better life because they come from countries where the earlier points are not true.

    Cheer up 'Tache.
    If this doesn't make you feel any better, salvation can always be found in a pint pot. 8)
  • peanutpeanut Posts: 1,373
    richardast wrote:
    Is it really such a mess though? I wonder if we've got it so easy that we look for things to complain about (and if you read The Mail, Express or Telegraph you don't have to look too hard).

    Unless you're over 82, you are probably a member of the first generation of Brits that has never been forced to fight in a war.

    Your species has been around for about 100,000 years, but you've been lucky enough to have been born at the end of a 150 year period during which life expectancy in your country has doubled.

    Unlike your great grandparents, you live without the fear of going hungry. You are more likely to die from overeating.

    The biggest worry facing many of us on a daily basis is what cycling related product we should spend our disposable income on.

    Statistically, immigrants bring more wealth to our economy than they take (a recent Despatches programme researched this information - it had never been done before).
    Unless you are a member of a sealed Ancient Briton community that has been untouched for over 2000 years, you have immigrant blood coursing through your veins.
    We are all, at the very least, part Scandinavian/German/French/Irish/Roman.
    Our national food, for example,(even if you ignore chicken tikka masala) is fish and chips. A traditional east-european Jewish dish.
    From my own experience, there are far more indigenous loafers in the UK than imported loafers - most immigrants just want a better life because they come from countries where the earlier points are not true.

    Cheer up 'Tache.
    If this doesn't make you feel any better, salvation can always be found in a pint pot. 8)

    this is the same old claptrap trotted out by those that want to bury us in immigrants. No one is proposing zero immigration but a sensible practice would be to control immigration. Don't let people enter the country on a visa whilst we think about it. They disappear and are never seen again. Illegal immigrants are unaccountable, untraceable and contribute nothing . They have no legal right to work here consequently they have to resort to prostitution, theft, fraud, drug and human trafficking and murder to survive. They are overloading our prisons, police and social services and every other resource that should be available forthe rest of us.

    I hate the prospect of identy cards because I believe its an infringement of our privacy and rights however it would at least find all the illegal immigrants and send em back home
  • grayo59grayo59 Posts: 722
    What about my two for one chav/east european exchange.

    We get one hard working Pole over here and Poland gets two Non-working chavs from Britain.

    We gain because the hard working Pole contributes to the economy and we don't have to pay benefits to the 2 Chavs or suffer their moronic vandalism and drug induced crime spree.

    Poland gains because it won't mess around do-gooding the Chavs and putting them on methodone etc - oh no sireee! the two Chavs will be made to work in the salt mines or be sent to Siberia, Shot or whatever! (yeah I know Siberia isn't in Poland :D )

    EVERY body wins - Poland, The Immigrant Pole and the 2 Chavs (shape up or be put out of their misery)

    Vote Grayo of the SS. No not them - the SImplistic Solution Party of course. :D
    __________________
    ......heading for the box, but not too soon I hope!
  • peanut wrote:
    this is the same old claptrap trotted out by those that want to bury us in immigrants. No one is proposing zero immigration but a sensible practice would be to control immigration. Don't let people enter the country on a visa whilst we think about it. They disappear and are never seen again. Illegal immigrants are unaccountable, untraceable and contribute nothing . They have no legal right to work here consequently they have to resort to prostitution, theft, fraud, drug and human trafficking and murder to survive. They are overloading our prisons, police and social services and every other resource that should be available forthe rest of us.

    I hate the prospect of identy cards because I believe its an infringement of our privacy and rights however it would at least find all the illegal immigrants and send em back home
    Actually, you're wrong. Those things I said are all true, not jaded opinions.
    I spend 50% of my waking hours working in east London which is, traditionally and currently, the destination for a huge number of immigrants. I work within one of the organizations that you say is being overloaded (not social services though :lol: ) and find that the vast majority of prostitution, theft, fraud, drug crime and murder (??) is nothing to do with the immigrants, illegal or not.

    The idea that immigrants are tearing the country apart is one that is created and sensationalized by politicians and newspaper editors who prey on our worst fears to get elected and sell newspapers.

    Peanut, I suggest you move to London because West Bubblefck, or wherever it is you live, is quite clearly a terrifying hell-hole overrun with murderous foreigners - unless of course you're just regurgitating what you read in the paper.
  • We are a nation of whingers, and it doesn't surprise me at all.

    We are constantly bombarded from all medias with negativity. Ive stopped watching the news and my quality of life has increased no end. ( If they've nothig nice to say......"

    Almost every TV programme promotes envy of your neighbour in some form or another. Your house is not good enough, your tv is not good enough, your car could be better, you need a new life in the country.

    This breeds discontentment.

    The vast majority of people need a reality check by going to live in some other third world country, to realise how fortunate we are.

    As for immigration - control it. If greedy companies and fatcat bosses paid decent wages to the workers to start with, the posts would be filled without bringing in migrants to fill them.
  • Random VinceRandom Vince Posts: 11,374
    life would be better if people showed thanks or were polite to each other.

    there are industry's where there are few jobs and the NHS is having problems

    but then, my friend has just graduated from physiotherepy and has no chance of a job as the NHS is not taking on any more junior physio's

    partly because the current physio's are not moving up to level 2 which has a lot more paper work, and a lot more responcibility for a small pay increase, most decide its not worth it and stay as they are, thus not making space.

    that is their choice,

    just as its my friends choice to have done physio

    however, her entire course at uni was payed for, plus some living expences by the NHS to encourage people to train

    so they're spending money to train people for jobs they do not have.

    why?
    My signature was stolen by a moose

    that will be all

    trying to get GT James banned since tuesday
  • Tourist TonyTourist Tony Posts: 8,628
    I agree wholeheartedly here. Once the move to service industries has eliminated all that silly manufacturing rubbish, we can concentrate the benefits of our hard work in the South East. We would need something to stop the proles from getting in; perhaps some sort of a wall, and a passbook system as trialled so well in South Africa.
    We could import other foreign ideas, such as the Indian caste system so that the filthy scum who clean the streets can be legally packed off to their shanty town aftertheir eighteen hour day.
    As for civil servants, such as nurses, teachers, policemen, I am sure that once their wages have been slashed and their pensions abolished there will be all sorts of little people coming forward to do the job for a suitable wage.
    With care, we could establish a true utopia, just like Russia, or Albania, or North Korea...
    If I had a stalker, I would hug it and kiss it and call it George...or censored
    http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/?o=3 ... =3244&v=5K
  • meagainmeagain Posts: 2,331
    Let's see now....attack the public sector (Close public sector DB pensions to further accruals.) and simultaneously "Return to traditional teaching methods", "More police who actually aren't afraid to police," and " Control immigration." Etc. Etc.

    "Enforce the law" AND "stop wasting cash on well meaning censored and stop going after people with £400 fines who park a foot outside a parking space etc." Eh?

    " Referendums ... local and national. You never know, people might just take an interest"
    They (the people) would almose certainly vote to ban cycling on the road - and m'cycles entirely! .

    " Withdraw from EU convention on human rights. We can right our own if we need one."
    Ah, the need for traditional education accounts for the rather neat pun, I suspect!

    " Build more homes. The right sort of homes in the right places. Engineer a gradual decline in house prices relative to wages. "
    While REDUCING the power of the state???

    Wow.
    d.j.
    "Cancel my subscription to the resurrection."
  • God, Im thinking of getting my turbo out !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • isn't it a shame all the money once generated in the North/North East ,Midlands etc wasn't kept and spent there, I mean it's just not good enough taking all the mineral wealth etc that was there what we should do is close down those industries destroy the communities and move production abroad and exploit their cheap labour, when we've done that we can move on again to the next cheap labor market and so on.
    Still there are plus sides all the old industrial estates that are no longer used can be leveled and have cheap (un)affordable housing for local people that gave the areas its local character in the first place.
    being a reformed stuntdrinker allows pontification
  • meagain wrote:
    Let's see now....attack the public sector (Close public sector DB pensions to further accruals.) and simultaneously "Return to traditional teaching methods", "More police who actually aren't afraid to police," and " Control immigration." Etc. Etc.

    "Enforce the law" AND "stop wasting cash on well meaning censored and stop going after people with £400 fines who park a foot outside a parking space etc." Eh?

    " Referendums ... local and national. You never know, people might just take an interest"
    They (the people) would almose certainly vote to ban cycling on the road - and m'cycles entirely! .

    " Withdraw from EU convention on human rights. We can right our own if we need one."
    Ah, the need for traditional education accounts for the rather neat pun, I suspect!

    " Build more homes. The right sort of homes in the right places. Engineer a gradual decline in house prices relative to wages. "
    While REDUCING the power of the state???

    Wow.

    Meagain, this is uncannily similar to the reply I was going to pen, but I came to the conclusion that the original poster must have been half cut when he posted. Nobody could proffer something as inconsistent and non-sequitur ridden as the OP as serious political opinion, could they?

    Wildmoustache, you kind if give the game away that you don't really know what you're talking about when you refer it the 'EU convention on human rights' - there's no such thing. The European convention on human rights, which was adopted before the EU came into existence, is annexed to the Human Rights Act 1998; here's a link: http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1998/uk ... 80042_en_1. I very much doubt that even a tenth of one percent of the people who advocate withdrawal from the convention have actually read it, preferring instead to rely on the Daily Mail for reasoned legal opinion. I defy anyone to read the convention and disagree with any of its provisions, which after all were drafted almost entirely by British lawyers in the first place.
  • meagainmeagain Posts: 2,331
    "...could they?"

    As the increase in my despair at the demise of rational rigorous intellectual argument increasingly matches the increase in my years, I fear yes, they COULD!
    d.j.
    "Cancel my subscription to the resurrection."
  • nasahapley wrote:
    meagain wrote:
    Human Rights Act 1998; here's a link: http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1998/uk ... 80042_en_1.

    Your link is broken - Page cannot be found.
  • Special KSpecial K Posts: 449
    The City of London is a net contributor to the Exchequor to the tune of over 800 million PER MONTH. (yes I am shouting, sorry).

    And yet, London is not allowed a measely 10 billion or so to build crossrail. Even double that would be a bargain. Why are we so scared to invest in our capital which is, despite its many faults, one of the greatest cities of the world?
    "There are holes in the sky,
    Where the rain gets in.
    But they're ever so small
    That's why rain is thin. " Spike Milligan
  • No, can't possibly let London keep more money, it's got to be sent north to prop up Northern Rock and over the border to prop up what's left of the Labour vote.
    On pensions, we could start by junking all new final salary schemes, and scrapping the MPs' one completely, means test the remainder.
    Yep, censored you Tony! :D
    The wording of the ECHR may be alright and no sane person could disagree with it, the interpretation is the bugbear here.
    We need laws that lock up the scum, we need an education system that does produce people who can read and write, that doesn't try to disguise the failings of the state system by attacking the schools that are working.
    Getting rid of politicians altogether would be a very good start.
    Remember that you are an Englishman and thus have won first prize in the lottery of life.
  • meagainmeagain Posts: 2,331
    "it's got to be sent north to prop up Northern Rock"

    But most of the shareholders (who the rest of us are bailing out - they placed their bets, lost and so they get their stake back) - will live in....the South East!

    "Getting rid of politicians altogether would be a very good start."

    So who, actually, would govern? Anarcho-Syndicalism would of course be ideal (worked well in Barcelona in the '30s as I recall) and my preference, but I doubt it would be yours.

    I'm starting to hope that you are simply doing a wind up...
    d.j.
    "Cancel my subscription to the resurrection."
  • top_bhoytop_bhoy Posts: 1,424
    meagain wrote:
    But most of the shareholders (who the rest of us are bailing out - they placed their bets, lost and so they get their stake back) - will live in....the South East!

    I guess the Govt had to step in at the time to prevent a general banking crisis and not particular to Northern Rock but its bloody ridiculous that these shareholders are even considered at all in any support plan - did they not read the terms of the small print 'the value of your shares can go down as well as up'? Its not a one-way bet!!!

    What short memories all these bankers have - its not so long ago that they were rubbishing any Govt intervention in 'old-style' industries. That same approach now would have many out off their homes and onto the streets!! I wonder if they'll have the same opinion in the future.
  • pipsqueak wrote:
    We are a nation of whingers, and it doesn't surprise me at all.

    We are constantly bombarded from all medias with negativity. Ive stopped watching the news and my quality of life has increased no end. ( If they've nothig nice to say......"

    Almost every TV programme promotes envy of your neighbour in some form or another. Your house is not good enough, your tv is not good enough, your car could be better, you need a new life in the country.

    This breeds discontentment.

    The vast majority of people need a reality check by going to live in some other third world country, to realise how fortunate we are.

    As for immigration - control it. If greedy companies and fatcat bosses paid decent wages to the workers to start with, the posts would be filled without bringing in migrants to fill them.

    Hi Pispsqueek I completely agree.

    I moved to Jakarta about 1 year ago and to be honest it is not 3rd world here, but there are parts of Indonesia (where I have visited) that are truly 3rd world. I don't claim to live anything other than a nice life here and to be honest I am no martyr, I don't go looking for a lesser quality of life to feed my soul. Putting that aside - I do see poverty on a daily basis that really is hard to take. The first couple of months for anyone here can be heartbreaking, but you harden to it.

    To get back to your point - I totally agree as I now look on people from the UK as absolute whiners on a massive scale - celebrity culture has turned them all into rock star wannabes with sloth like motivation and this is encouraged. However, the problem with getting these people to come to a third world country to re-arrange their perception on life has the following flaws:

    1. They are rarely motivated to do anything other than watch big Brother and eat kebab's - hence what is the chance of them going somewhere with "nothing to do"

    2. What would they do here? It is harder to get work here than back i their ivory tower - unless they want to be a low level manual worker ($100 pr month) and we all know they are worth way more than that

    3. If they did manage to get here and they did spend some time with people who literally have nothing, they would soon realise that actually the UK is a mess and like me (and almost every expat I know) decide that there is no effin chance they are moving back......

    Have a nice day in Paradise!!!!!
  • Special KSpecial K Posts: 449
    Top_Bhoy wrote:
    meagain wrote:
    But most of the shareholders (who the rest of us are bailing out - they placed their bets, lost and so they get their stake back) - will live in....the South East!

    I guess the Govt had to step in at the time to prevent a general banking crisis and not particular to Northern Rock but its bloody ridiculous that these shareholders are even considered at all in any support plan - did they not read the terms of the small print 'the value of your shares can go down as well as up'? Its not a one-way bet!!!

    What short memories all these bankers have - its not so long ago that they were rubbishing any Govt intervention in 'old-style' industries. That same approach now would have many out off their homes and onto the streets!! I wonder if they'll have the same opinion in the future.

    We are not propping up the shareholders. Any company in trouble, the shareholders are the very last people on the list to get any money. The taxpayer is the creditor in this case. There is a massive difference.
    "There are holes in the sky,
    Where the rain gets in.
    But they're ever so small
    That's why rain is thin. " Spike Milligan
  • meagainmeagain Posts: 2,331
    I rather think that the guarantees etc WILL have had a positive effect on the share price!
    d.j.
    "Cancel my subscription to the resurrection."
  • top_bhoytop_bhoy Posts: 1,424
    meagain wrote:
    I rather think that the guarantees etc WILL have had a positive effect on the share price!

    Agreed, without Govt intervention and BoE guarantees to support NR, the 'bank' would have been liquidated and it would have led to the collapse of the share price. The pigs just want to keep their snouts in the trough just that little bit longer!!!
  • il_principeil_principe Posts: 9,151
    peanut wrote:
    I hate the prospect of identy cards because I believe its an infringement of our privacy and rights however it would at least find all the illegal immigrants and send em back home

    How exactly? Would you have the police stop anyone "what looks foreign" and demand to see their ID? Total waste of money and time, besides which there'll be huge blackmarket selling the things furnished with our data, lost by this daft government.
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