Lactate Tolerance Training

il_principe

I'm training for 3 Sportives at the moment (Hampshire Hilly 100, Dragon Ride, Etape). Did a 70 mile ride in the Surrey Hills on Saturday with a 50/34 - 11/23. Tackled 4 hills (one by accident) and according to the Garmin we hit some gradients of 15% or more. Now I know that these hills are totally different to the Pyrenees (i.e. short and sharp) but my legs found it very tough and felt really really heavy on the hills. I'm not as fit as I'd like post xmas, but what should I be doing in training terms to build up my lactate tolerance - I'm assuming it is a build up of lactic acid that makes the legs feel heavier? For the Sportives I will have a 13/26 or 12/26 on the back which should help. For now though should I stick to the 11/23 for training/strength purposes?

I have invested in a set of rollers and am hoping I can use these in the evenings, but am not sure what the best use of them will be. I like to train outside when possible, but the combination of the weather and living in central London makes this difficult during the week.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Alex_Simmons/RST

Er, you probably don't really want to be doing lactate tolerance work at all. They are the 30 second to 1 min all out, eye popping, vomit inducing efforts often done in sets.

You will want to work on improving your lactate threshold by good doses of solid tempo riding and interval efforts closer to TT pace (e.g. the often referred to 2 x 20-min efforts) and improve your Maximal Aerobic Power by doing repeated short hard efforts (3-5mins).

il_principe

Thanks Alex. I feel a bit cheeky soliciting advice from you when I guess I should really be paying, so if you don't want to answer this then I completely understand!

How many short Maximal Aerobic Power sessions should I aim for a week, and what resting period in between? Same question for the 2 x 20-min efforts? I'll be combining this with a long training ride at weekends and a piddling 6 mile commute 5 days a week.

Alex_Simmons/RST

You just about can do as much tempo as you like/can fit in/stand. You can do a couple of 2x20s a week if you're up for it (keep them just below TT effort level) but best to start with shorter efforts 10-15 min and build them up over the weeks if you're new to them. The short hard stuff 3-5 mins, well it depends on whether that's a limiter to your aerobic progress or not (in your case unlikely) so save those until 6-8 weeks before your main event as a nice way to boost your top end for the short hill punches.

Sometimes commutes can be counterproductive to training effectiveness. I can't tell in your specific circumstance.

usual rules (e.g. progressive overload and appropriate recovery) and caveats apply (don't know your specific circumstances, goals, experience, current status, generic advice not always best etc etc)

Always happy to give generic advice. Specific advice requires specific knowledge of the individual.

I can assure you I'm not here to make a squillion!

Toks

jashburnham wrote:

I'm not as fit as I'd like post xmas, but what should I be doing in training terms to build up my lactate tolerance - I'm assuming it is a build up of lactic acid that makes the legs feel heavier? For the Sportives I will have a 13/26 or 12/26 on the back which should help. For now though should I stick to the 11/23 for training/strength purposes?

I have invested in a set of rollers and am hoping I can use these in the evenings, but am not sure what the best use of them will be. I like to train outside when possible, but the combination of the weather and living in central London makes this difficult during the week.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

First of all i've got to endorse Alex's good words. Success in all endurance events is very much determined by your sustainable power output/threshold power. The higher this is the better you'll do and coincidentally this will also "bullet proof ya legs". Such that you'll be able to recover quickly from a hard short efforts (anaerobic) and still keep up a good pace. Alex has already mentioned every time constrained ameateurs' meat and potatoe session - 2 x 20's; you'll also find sweet spot rides in the 1- 2 1/2 hrs at a notch down from 2 x 20 intensity also do a good job at raising your threshold power. good luck

il_principe

Thanks all. If it helps I'm 28, weigh 75 kg and height is 180cm. I'm reasonably fit but need to build up my stamina and hill climbing ability.

Jonathan15

for sportifs you dont really need interval work as its not a race. Well at least not structured intervals. Best thing to do is ride at about 75-85%HR moderately hard for a couple of hours. This will give a big improvement in the aerobic system hence enabling you to go further and faster than before.

Alex_Simmons/RST

Jonathan15 wrote:

for sportifs you dont really need interval work as its not a race. Well at least not structured intervals. Best thing to do is ride at about 75-85%HR moderately hard for a couple of hours. This will give a big improvement in the aerobic system hence enabling you to go further and faster than before.

and what do you suggest when you don't have a couple of hours?

Toks

Jonathan15 wrote:

for sportifs you dont really need interval work as its not a race. Well at least not structured intervals

Says who?..you've obviously never been in the front group of a cyclosportiv. If an event is being timed or your not alone in the event it may not be implicit, but its still a race

Kléber

Toks, Alex Simmons, is it not the case that road racing involves a lot more interval-style efforts, the attacks, chasing down moves, the accelerations. Cyclosportives, if still a race, are more about wearing out riders who disappear out the back rather than attacking off the front? Or not?

il_principe

Toks wrote:

Jonathan15 wrote:

for sportifs you dont really need interval work as its not a race. Well at least not structured intervals

Says who?..you've obviously never been in the front group of a cyclosportiv. If an event is being timed or your not alone in the event it may not be implicit, but its still a race

I should point out that I will be treating this as a race in so far as it is timed and I would like to finish in as quick as time as possible. I will be doing moderate longer rides, but I'm more concerned as to what effective work I can do on the rollers after work while it's too dark and wet to venture out.

Alex_Simmons/RST

jashburnham wrote:

I should point out that I will be treating this as a race in so far as it is timed and I would like to finish in as quick as time as possible. I will be doing moderate longer rides, but I'm more concerned as to what effective work I can do on the rollers after work while it's too dark and wet to venture out.

Which implies that you need to work primarily on raising your Lactate Threshold (IOW the max sustainable power you can maintain for several hours) and practice fueling while riding moderately hard to enable your body to process and replenish glycogen stores while riding - which is crucial for longer endurance events.

This is best done by riding at a decent clip, tempo rides and occasional interval work at nearer to 1-hour TT pace (especially when training time limitations exist). Riding in and around 1-hour TT pace has the largest impact (per hour of riding) on raising LT, but since you can do so much more volume at slightly lower intensities, then then tempo rides provide great bang for buck when it comes to raising your LT.

il_principe

Cheers Alex. 1 hour TT pace sessions on the rollers would be very doable. Thanks very much for the advice.

Toks

Kléber wrote:

Toks, Alex Simmons, is it not the case that road racing involves a lot more interval-style efforts, the attacks, chasing down moves, the accelerations. Cyclosportives, if still a race, are more about wearing out riders who disappear out the back rather than attacking off the front? Or not?

I've seen everything you've mentioned take place in the Dragon, Etape, Tour of the Surrey hill, Tour of the Black Mountains etc. Obviously it will be less than 5% of the field that will literally be 'racing' but most people who have an ounce of competitive spirit will still be pushing themselves to improve on previous times or gain gold status whatever. But yes the point you make is a fair one

Alex_Simmons/RST

jashburnham wrote:

Cheers Alex. 1 hour TT pace sessions on the rollers would be very doable. Thanks very much for the advice.

Providing that TT pace on the rollers = same level of effort (i.e. power) as on the road. Your rollers may be easier, similar to or harder to ride at a given speed than say, on a flat road, so you'll need to adjust "pace" accordingly.

Go by effort level (RPE). You'll soon know if you started too hard as you won't be able to complete the interval, so next time adjust down. Likewise, if you finished and it wasn't that hard, then up the pace next time. It is kind of self correcting like that. So make notes and keep a diary.

oldwelshman

Intersting replies
Personally, for sportives I do not do any interval training at all. I train doing longer weekend rides of 70 to 100 miles.
Toks is right in the fact any one who has any competative streak will do it as a race of sorts.
The most important thing for inexperienced riders is not to get drawn into riding with faster stronger riders and to try to ride with people around their ability.
I have seen many try to keep up esarly on rides only to fade badly later.
One group I saw (will not say where from ) rode up to us 20 miles into one ride and claimed we were going too slow for them so they said they were "going to crank up the pace!!) we were doing steady average 19mph ( over hilly course).
We passed them on next descent as they had no idea how to descend at speed!! and at the end after a shower and cup of tea, we saw them come i 45 minutes after us
So it is important to know your own limits and not get carried away.
At the end of year, after 4 weeks off bike, I did a ride as I had paid, tried to keep up with mate and ended up 25 minutes down also 8) , still scrapped a gold though

celbianchi

Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:

Sometimes commutes can be counterproductive to training effectiveness. I can't tell in your specific circumstance.

Alex - I'd be interested to know the reasoning behind that as I use my commute to do hill intervals, high intensity work. I extend my route into work to make it a decent training effort. I road race at 2/3/4 level.

Alex_Simmons/RST

Well it is an individual rider thing - it depends on the nature / frequency of the commute. If you need some recovery for example but have a hilly route with traffic lights and cars to dodge, then it may not be such a good thing. Of course you can adjust training to allow for commutes but then you can start to compromise training.

For some lucky people, their commute actually represents an ideal training opportunity. This sounds like you - but even then you are really going on a training ride that happens to end up at work (which is a good thing). I used to do that too until my work location meant the commute was simply awful.

So, like I said, it's about how such a ride fits in with the overall plan. For some it does, for others it's sub-optimal and causes comprimises in training.

If you are just about general fitness and are not about targeting specific goals and/or getting the best out of yourself this season, then it really doesn't matter that much.

Mike Willcox

When I was commuting I would adopt a policy of keeping the pace steady on the way in to work, but do some higher quality work including intervals on the way home.

Two reasons for that.

Firstly a practical one regarding keeping the kit not too smelly and dry at work during the day and secondly so I had enough energy to make the most of the homeward leg from a training perspective.